The Fender Forum
NEW! LPF Facebook Page
LilyPix
Merchandise & Donations
NEW! Burst Serial Log Home Page
LPF Homesite
Results 1 to 31 of 31
  1. #1

    Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Hi,

    I have this old LP with serial 99216943 so I believe it is from 1975.

    However, interesting detail, as the neck painting has a small hole in it, it think the neck is maple and not mahogany. Am I right? I wonder when they manufactured maple necks?

    Also, The T Top pups have the normal PAT NO 2737842 stamped in the back, but in addition, there is a text "WILLIAMSVILLE". Can someone explain?

    One more question: can anyone tell if the tuners are original? At least there are no signs of replacement at all:
    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7qatshyw.jpg

    Thank you!!

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    My book agrees that 99 is 1975 which is the last year of the paf TTops.

    Did Gibson use somebody else to wind the very last ttops thus "Williamsville" - I'm asking? I have no idea who Williamsburg is.

    Those look like original tuners judging by the location of the little screw at 45degs. I see no hole where another tuner type would have been anchored at 180degs
    lets see more pics.

    How much does it weigh?
    Last edited by Zentar; 05-17-17 at 03:32 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    My book agrees that 99 is 1975 which is the last year of the paf TTops.

    Did Gibson use somebody else to wind the very last ttops thus "Williamsburg" - I'm asking? I have no idea who Williamsburg is.

    Those look like original tuners judging by the location of the little screw at 45degs. I see no hole where another tuner type would have been anchored at 180degs
    lets see more pics.

    How much does it weigh?
    Thanks for your comments. The guitar is around 4,7kg I think.

  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Member gibson-r8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    347

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Its a 1996 model.

    78 Les Paul Recording

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by gibson-r8 View Post
    Its a 1996 model.
    Then it may not be a Ttop since 75 was the last year of TTops thus the Williamsburg pups? Was Williamsburg used after T Top? I have never heard of Williamsville.

    His guitar was probably made during a switchover period.


    I get nothing when I look up Williamsburg
    Last edited by Zentar; 05-17-17 at 03:33 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by gibson-r8 View Post
    Its a 1996 model.
    The guitar itself? No it is not. According to Gibson, it was purchased in 1975.

  7. #7

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by gibson-r8 View Post
    Its a 1996 model.
    Also it is stated in gibson.com:

    "During the period from 1975-1977 Gibson used a transfer that had eight digit numbers, the first twoindicate the year, 99=1975, 00=1976 and 06=1977, the following six digits are in the 100000 to 200000
    range. MADE IN USA were also included on the transfer and some models had LIMITED EDITION also
    applied. A few bolt on neck instruments had a date ink stamped on the heel area.
    "

    But 100000 to does not match... I will contact Gibson again and double-check.

    by 1996 you must refer to the standard system implemented in 1978. According to that, the day of the year does not match since it would be the day number 921 and that should be within range of 001 - 365 I assume.
    Last edited by finlanderr; 05-17-17 at 03:32 PM.

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    I would be more interested in what Williamsville is. My Gibson books are all kind of slack about who made pups after 75 up till 83.
    Are you sure it says "Williamsville/?

    Pics please pics!!!

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wixom MI
    Posts
    3,961

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    99 prefix ON AN OVAL DECAL is 100000% 1975.

    Last "T Tops" were in 1980, though the basic premise carried on as the PU490, which eventually became the 490R and 490T

    Williamsville stamps are found on pickups (mini hums too!) in 75 and '76, it was were these pickups were made for a short time.

    "Moog Music bought a factory in Williamsville NY a suburb of Buffalo in 1971. In 1975 Moog was purchased by Norlin. For a short time Gibson amplifiers and Cordovox instruments were actually manufactured in the plant in Williamsville NY."

    So seems pickups were made there too for a short time..remember, this is RIGHT when the transition to Nashville was happening, your '75 Custom is no doubt a Kalamazoo made one.

    That's a MAPLE neck, and tuners are STOCK.

    Maple necks were from 1975-1982
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  10. #10

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    I would be more interested in what Williamsville is. My Gibson books are all kind of slack about who made pups after 75 up till 83.
    Are you sure it says "Williamsville/?

    Pics please pics!!!
    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...pskytaokul.jpg

  11. #11

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Ford View Post
    99 prefix ON AN OVAL DECAL is 100000% 1975.

    Last "T Tops" were in 1980, though the basic premise carried on as the PU490, which eventually became the 490R and 490T

    Williamsville stamps are found on pickups (mini hums too!) in 75 and '76, it was were these pickups were made for a short time.

    "Moog Music bought a factory in Williamsville NY a suburb of Buffalo in 1971. In 1975 Moog was purchased by Norlin. For a short time Gibson amplifiers and Cordovox instruments were actually manufactured in the plant in Williamsville NY."

    So seems pickups were made there too for a short time..remember, this is RIGHT when the transition to Nashville was happening, your '75 Custom is no doubt a Kalamazoo made one.

    That's a MAPLE neck, and tuners are STOCK.

    Maple necks were from 1975-1982

    Thanks for the info. Sorry about my English but by STOCK, you mean original or replaced ones?

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by finlanderr View Post
    Thanks for the info. Sorry about my English but by STOCK, you mean original or replaced ones?
    yep. Stock is original, oem or showroom.

    TTops should have a book written just on their history . I have to wonder if we should call Williamsvilles, T Tops? Seems like they may have been made Ksalamazoo, Nashville and Williamsville. Youre lucky Norlin painted Willimsville on them. Lotta Gibby pups had nothing on them.

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member gibson-r8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    347

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    I will defer to Kris Ford on this, I cant see the oval sticker in my view of the serial number. Serial numbers are frequently not the best indicator of year. This would be the first 75 oval sticker number Custom that i have seen. The question of Nashville versus Kalamazoo build generates lots of questions. My 75 Custom is 6-digit serial, narrow cutaway binding, grovers, trans tenon, small dot guitar. My 76 Custom is 8 digit sticker serial, wide cutaway binding, rocker, large dot, Schaller equipped guitar. I have always figured my 75 was Kalamazoo and the 76 Nashville. Can the OP give us more photos of this instrument?

    78 Les Paul Recording

  14. #14

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    I have a 1975 LPC with a mahogany neck, ABR-1, witches hat knob's and waffleback tuners. Serial is impressed 550775.
    "I`ll name the names in my diatribe
    posthumously posted on my website"

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member gibson-r8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    347

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by richard henry View Post
    I have a 1975 LPC with a mahogany neck, ABR-1, witches hat knob's and waffleback tuners. Serial is impressed 550775.
    An earlier one before change to maple. I would think the ABR-1 would define this as Kalamazoo, what is the thickness of the binding in the cutaway?

    78 Les Paul Recording

  16. #16

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by gibson-r8 View Post
    I cant see the oval sticker in my view of the serial number.
    "I can't sing,
    I ain't pretty,
    And my legs,
    Are thin."

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Lake Ontario shore
    Posts
    12,232

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    Then it may not be a Ttop since 75 was the last year of TTops thus the Williamsburg pups? Was Williamsburg used after T Top? I have never heard of Williamsville.

    His guitar was probably made during a switchover period.


    I get nothing when I look up Williamsburg
    What book? Ttops made until 83 or so.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    What book? Ttops made until 83 or so.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAF_(pickup)

    It was written in one of four LP books I acquired in the last couple of months that TTops ended in 75. I tried to find which book but as of yet I don't see what I read. However Wiki says TTops ended in 75. Feel free to prove otherwise. In 1975 Gibby moved pickup manufacture from Tenn to NY or Kalamazoo to NY I forget which.
    Ive read that Ttops are very similar to 490 which were made in NY. I personally don't think the 490 is a Ttop. It is that switch to NY in 75 that accounts for different people claiming different manufacture end date. But I could be wrong.

    Reading about how when and where Gibby made pickups can be a lesson in futility depending on where you read it or depending on if Gibby even knows today how they did stuff years ago.

    My personal opinion I that if you move to a new location and hire new winders that you just changed everything. You are not going to produce the same product at a new building using different people.

    490s were made in NY too. Are these Ttops made in NY? I'm asking? Even if Gibson called them that how can that be true with new winders, new machines in a new town?

  19. #19
    All Access/Backstage Pass Progrocker111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    small country full of nice women and good beer
    Posts
    3,611

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    What book? Ttops made until 83 or so.
    Until 1980 only. In mid to late 1980 Shaws appeared fot the first time.
    My diagnosis is: Hiwatt and Norlinphilia


    1969 Gibson Les Paul Custom
    1972 Hiwatt DR103, 1972 Hiwatt SE4122

  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Lake Ontario shore
    Posts
    12,232

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Progrocker111 View Post
    Until 1980 only. In mid to late 1980 Shaws appeared fot the first time.
    The shop I worked was Gibson dealer. The Shaw "pat app for" pickup was only available on Heritage 80 Les Pauls, Dot Neck 335 and Korina V and Explorer after then they show up across the range concurrent with the shift back to one piece necks, small headstocks and dish carves.

    I remember replacing lots of "Original Humbucker ", Ttops from 80-83. I'm sure it wasn't an abrupt change and overlapped a bit. Going by memory so I could be wrong, but I moved to NY in 83 so I am reasonably sure.
    Last edited by Big Al; 05-26-17 at 09:59 PM.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Lake Ontario shore
    Posts
    12,232

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAF_(pickup)

    It was written in one of four LP books I acquired in the last couple of months that TTops ended in 75. I tried to find which book but as of yet I don't see what I read. However Wiki says TTops ended in 75. Feel free to prove otherwise. In 1975 Gibby moved pickup manufacture from Tenn to NY or Kalamazoo to NY I forget which.
    Ive read that Ttops are very similar to 490 which were made in NY. I personally don't think the 490 is a Ttop. It is that switch to NY in 75 that accounts for different people claiming different manufacture end date. But I could be wrong.

    Reading about how when and where Gibby made pickups can be a lesson in futility depending on where you read it or depending on if Gibby even knows today how they did stuff years ago.

    My personal opinion I that if you move to a new location and hire new winders that you just changed everything. You are not going to produce the same product at a new building using different people.

    490s were made in NY too. Are these Ttops made in NY? I'm asking? Even if Gibson called them that how can that be true with new winders, new machines in a new town?
    Makes it hard to explain the late 70's Walnut The Paul with coverless Ttops or the double cream Ttops on the 79 Les Paul KM.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wixom MI
    Posts
    3,961

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    I think they meant the PAT# DECAL version ended in '75..the stamped base version (with T bobbin) is still a T Top too!
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Ford View Post
    I think they meant the PAT# DECAL version ended in '75..the stamped base version (with T bobbin) is still a T Top too!
    Finlander who started this thread has a "Williamsville" humbucker which isn't even mentioned in any of the 4 LP books I have. There is no definitive list or book on PAF style humbuckers. I have to wonder how many other variants are out there.

    Another thing that doesn't help is errors in books or just plain vagueness in books. One book calls the 490 a single coil. I shouldn't have to edit a book before I can use it.

    One question I have and can't answer is if the 57Classic is the same pup made since 57? My guess is no.
    The P90 seems to be Gibson's only pup made continuously since it was introduced and even it varies in DCR a good bit.

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wixom MI
    Posts
    3,961

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    Finlander who started this thread has a "Williamsville" humbucker which isn't even mentioned in any of the 4 LP books I have. There is no definitive list or book on PAF style humbuckers. I have to wonder how many other variants are out there.

    Another thing that doesn't help is errors in books or just plain vagueness in books. One book calls the 490 a single coil. I shouldn't have to edit a book before I can use it.

    One question I have and can't answer is if the 57Classic is the same pup made since 57? My guess is no.
    The P90 seems to be Gibson's only pup made continuously since it was introduced and even it varies in DCR a good bit.
    No, but it is supposed to be in the spirit of the original PAF..

    The Williamsville is pretty vague..but I'm positive that it's related to the MOOG factory that Norlin acquired..it's one of those details that must not be bookworthy.
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    414

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Impedance, 1956-1961: ~7.5-9.5
    1961-1965: 7.25-7.75
    1965-1975: 7.5

    Look how Wikipeadia reveals the DCR variances from year to year in the PAF

  26. #26
    All Access/Backstage Pass Progrocker111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    small country full of nice women and good beer
    Posts
    3,611

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Ford View Post
    I think they meant the PAT# DECAL version ended in '75..
    In fact, the switch to stamped version happened in mid 1974. Never saw late 74 or early 75 Custom with original stickered T-Top so far...
    My diagnosis is: Hiwatt and Norlinphilia


    1969 Gibson Les Paul Custom
    1972 Hiwatt DR103, 1972 Hiwatt SE4122

  27. #27
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wixom MI
    Posts
    3,961

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Progrocker111 View Post
    In fact, the switch to stamped version happened in mid 1974. Never saw late 74 or early 75 Custom with original stickered T-Top so far...
    My thoughts too..but for discussion's sake, by 1975, they were stamped base.
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  28. #28

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Ford View Post
    No, but it is supposed to be in the spirit of the original PAF..

    The Williamsville is pretty vague..but I'm positive that it's related to the MOOG factory that Norlin acquired..it's one of those details that must not be bookworthy.
    Amazingly fuzzy topic. But interesting. But in the real life, the pups sound great -all agree. One said though that the one in bridge has a bit too less kick in it. In other words, they wouldn't be totally in balance. Are the Ttops identical by an assumption (neck vs. bridge)?

    But the way, thanks for really informative and decent discussion guys!!

  29. #29
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wixom MI
    Posts
    3,961

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by finlanderr View Post
    Amazingly fuzzy topic. But interesting. But in the real life, the pups sound great -all agree. One said though that the one in bridge has a bit too less kick in it. In other words, they wouldn't be totally in balance. Are the Ttops identical by an assumption (neck vs. bridge)?

    But the way, thanks for really informative and decent discussion guys!!
    Yep, there were no dedicated bridge and neck T Tops..yet, that came later.
    BUT, the "tarback" Super Humbuckings in SGs and other models were designed bridge and neck spec wise.
    The wider spacing in the bridge came later yet..
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  30. #30
    Les Paul Forum Member guitplayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wizzconsin
    Posts
    1,270

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Yeah Kris was`nt that wide spacing change when the 490 appeared?
    " Never Mind Your Face, just show us your card"

  31. #31
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wixom MI
    Posts
    3,961

    Re: Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

    Quote Originally Posted by guitplayer View Post
    Yeah Kris was`nt that wide spacing change when the 490 appeared?
    Think so bud...but I have a PAT# stamped base 500T, that is regular spaced, as it fits under a stock T Top cover...that one is a headscratcher..it has the pole holes on the base for both R and T spots like the other 490s I have seen, but uses the R/regular spaced...and we know that they never intended 500T as a neck pickup.. Bet this is one of the first, like literally a Dirty Fingers with a single row of screw poles..
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Scroll Down And Click On All Of Our Sponsors' Logos For Their Websites!