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Gibson Les Paul Custom 1975

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAF_(pickup)

It was written in one of four LP books I acquired in the last couple of months that TTops ended in 75. I tried to find which book but as of yet I don't see what I read. However Wiki says TTops ended in 75. Feel free to prove otherwise. In 1975 Gibby moved pickup manufacture from Tenn to NY or Kalamazoo to NY I forget which.
Ive read that Ttops are very similar to 490 which were made in NY. I personally don't think the 490 is a Ttop. It is that switch to NY in 75 that accounts for different people claiming different manufacture end date. But I could be wrong.

Reading about how when and where Gibby made pickups can be a lesson in futility depending on where you read it or depending on if Gibby even knows today how they did stuff years ago.

My personal opinion I that if you move to a new location and hire new winders that you just changed everything. You are not going to produce the same product at a new building using different people.

490s were made in NY too. Are these Ttops made in NY? I'm asking? Even if Gibson called them that how can that be true with new winders, new machines in a new town?

Makes it hard to explain the late 70's Walnut The Paul with coverless Ttops or the double cream Ttops on the 79 Les Paul KM.
 

Kris Ford

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I think they meant the PAT# DECAL version ended in '75..the stamped base version (with T bobbin) is still a T Top too!
 

Zentar

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I think they meant the PAT# DECAL version ended in '75..the stamped base version (with T bobbin) is still a T Top too!

Finlander who started this thread has a "Williamsville" humbucker which isn't even mentioned in any of the 4 LP books I have. There is no definitive list or book on PAF style humbuckers. I have to wonder how many other variants are out there.

Another thing that doesn't help is errors in books or just plain vagueness in books. One book calls the 490 a single coil. I shouldn't have to edit a book before I can use it.

One question I have and can't answer is if the 57Classic is the same pup made since 57? My guess is no.
The P90 seems to be Gibson's only pup made continuously since it was introduced and even it varies in DCR a good bit.
 

Kris Ford

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Finlander who started this thread has a "Williamsville" humbucker which isn't even mentioned in any of the 4 LP books I have. There is no definitive list or book on PAF style humbuckers. I have to wonder how many other variants are out there.

Another thing that doesn't help is errors in books or just plain vagueness in books. One book calls the 490 a single coil. I shouldn't have to edit a book before I can use it.

One question I have and can't answer is if the 57Classic is the same pup made since 57? My guess is no.
The P90 seems to be Gibson's only pup made continuously since it was introduced and even it varies in DCR a good bit.

No, but it is supposed to be in the spirit of the original PAF..

The Williamsville is pretty vague..but I'm positive that it's related to the MOOG factory that Norlin acquired..it's one of those details that must not be bookworthy.:dang
 

Zentar

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Impedance, 1956-1961: ~7.5-9.5
1961-1965: 7.25-7.75
1965-1975: 7.5

Look how Wikipeadia reveals the DCR variances from year to year in the PAF

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finlanderr

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May 17, 2017
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No, but it is supposed to be in the spirit of the original PAF..

The Williamsville is pretty vague..but I'm positive that it's related to the MOOG factory that Norlin acquired..it's one of those details that must not be bookworthy.:dang

Amazingly fuzzy topic. But interesting. But in the real life, the pups sound great -all agree. One said though that the one in bridge has a bit too less kick in it. In other words, they wouldn't be totally in balance. Are the Ttops identical by an assumption (neck vs. bridge)?

But the way, thanks for really informative and decent discussion guys!!
 

Kris Ford

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Amazingly fuzzy topic. But interesting. But in the real life, the pups sound great -all agree. One said though that the one in bridge has a bit too less kick in it. In other words, they wouldn't be totally in balance. Are the Ttops identical by an assumption (neck vs. bridge)?

But the way, thanks for really informative and decent discussion guys!!

Yep, there were no dedicated bridge and neck T Tops..yet, that came later.
BUT, the "tarback" Super Humbuckings in SGs and other models were designed bridge and neck spec wise.
The wider spacing in the bridge came later yet..
 

Kris Ford

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Yeah Kris was`nt that wide spacing change when the 490 appeared?

Think so bud...but I have a PAT# stamped base 500T, that is regular spaced, as it fits under a stock T Top cover...that one is a headscratcher..it has the pole holes on the base for both R and T spots like the other 490s I have seen, but uses the R/regular spaced...and we know that they never intended 500T as a neck pickup.. Bet this is one of the first, like literally a Dirty Fingers with a single row of screw poles..:hmm
 

TantrisPicks

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Sep 16, 2020
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1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAF_(pickup)



It was written in one of four LP books I acquired in the last couple of months that TTops ended in 75. I tried to find which book but as of yet I don't see what I read. However Wiki says TTops ended in 75. Feel free to prove otherwise. In 1975 Gibby moved pickup manufacture from Tenn to NY or Kalamazoo to NY I forget which.

Ive read that Ttops are very similar to 490 which were made in NY. I personally don't think the 490 is a Ttop. It is that switch to NY in 75 that accounts for different people claiming different manufacture end date. But I could be wrong.



Reading about how when and where Gibby made pickups can be a lesson in futility depending on where you read it or depending on if Gibby even knows today how they did stuff years ago.



My personal opinion I that if you move to a new location and hire new winders that you just changed everything. You are not going to produce the same product at a new building using different people.



490s were made in NY too. Are these Ttops made in NY? I'm asking? Even if Gibson called them that how can that be true with new winders, new machines in a new town?


I don't know if you guys are still following this old thread, but I have the same question. I just swapped out the bridge pickup on a 1977 Custom Black Beauty 3-pickup with a 498T because the original pickup sounded a little muddy to me. The one I replaced is impressed “PAT NO 2737842” with “WILLIAMSVILLE” stamped in ink below that. All online reference I can find with both those features refers to mini humbuckers, which this is not. I get 7.53 K Ohms from it, and I assume it's a T-Top although I haven't pulled the cover off. I have not checked the other 2 pickups for markings because I'm not going to bother replacing them.

So at least we know a full-size "Williamsville" pickup ended up in a 1977. I don't know if the T-Tops are supposed to be any good but I think the 498T sounds a lot better than what was in there.
 
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