The Fender Forum
NEW! LPF Facebook Page
LilyPix
Merchandise & Donations
NEW! Burst Serial Log Home Page
LPF Homesite
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1

    58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    I have an opportunity on a 58 tweed pro, but one that's seen a very hard road. Was in a club that had a fire many years ago. The tweed was ruined, the speaker was ruined, silkscreen labels were destroyed and it was smoked up. Since the fire, it has seen some electronic repair, but, at present, only the instrument channel is working. I've told the seller that I'm interested in it but at nothing like typical prices we see for that era tweeds, as a tinkering project only. What do y'all think is a reasonable offer for what I've described? I've told the seller that I'd like for him to name a price for it as I don't want to insult him with the amount I'd really like to get it for. It could easily turn out to be irredeemable given what it's been through.

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,486

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Not sure (genuinely), but if you're looking for a 59 with good pedigree I have one I'd let go.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  3. #3

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Not sure (genuinely), but if you're looking for a 59 with good pedigree I have one I'd let go.
    F-hole. the heads-up is much appreciated. However, after years of excessive G.A.S.ing, and coming into my "senior" years, I've slowed down on my quest to acquire everything I take a fancy to. Looking at this amp more as a project to tinker with. I was considering making a pseudo Super-Amp out of it. Just not sure I have the amp tinkering chops to do so without spending a ton or suffering more frustration than it's worth. With the fire damage, seems a fairly shady proposition.

  4. #4

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by BurstWurst View Post
    ... I was considering making a pseudo Super-Amp out of it. Just not sure I have the amp tinkering chops to do so without spending a ton or suffering more frustration than it's worth. ...
    The Pro and Super had the same circuits in the chassis, but used different output transformers due to the different speaker loads (4Ω of 2x10 vs 8Ω of 1x15).

    I'm no help for value, though.

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    When presented with situations like this one where a prospective seller does not want to name a price....and IF I want the piece....I will name a price---somewhere below my max---- that I would be willing to give and tell them over that price somewhere I start backing up. That can get the dickering started....or establish the reality that the seller does not want to take what the thing is actually worth.
    Any one of those conditions....tweed, speaker, chrome/lettering...is a big hit on the value, ime. Even fully retweeded and in proper operating condition with a good speaker in it the amp would be worth half at most of exc and original condition. The fact that the lettering is gone might make even 50% unattainable even after retweeding and the work to make the amp be what it should be sonics-wise.
    IF this owner thinks he has a $3K amp, he is mistaken. IF he thinks he has $2K sitting there, he needs a reality check. My
    'I'd be willing to make this offer to start a conversation" would be $600. MY max would not be a lot more. And...that is IF I liked what I heard out of the amp as it sits. I have a feeling that he and I would not be doing the deal, right? (;^)
    I have the chassi and trannies from a '56 5E5A and a later 5F6A that went through a worse fire than that. NO boards, no pots,....all of that was ruined. Speaker frames are there....but I going to doubt that they are of any use after the dousing of fire retardant and water that they received. IT was a mess cleaning things up.....$42K worth of vintage amps up in flames.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Somewhere between Woodstock and NOVA
    Posts
    13,738

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Wally is spot on. Please post pictures of every angle. The power and output transformers make these amps. The guys on this thread can help you out greatly. I'm not bad either. Goid luck. Fun project if enough is there.
    Top carves are sexy

  7. #7

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity



    Only pics I was provided. No good pics of x-formers

  8. #8

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    The seller says one channel is working. Does that suggest that the transformers are good (well, relatively speaking)? I've bought several amps over the years with a channel out and it was always a bad preamp tube.

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by BurstWurst View Post
    The seller says one channel is working. Does that suggest that the transformers are good (well, relatively speaking)? I've bought several amps over the years with a channel out and it was always a bad preamp tube.
    Nothing that we know establishes that the transformers are good, ime. One has to hear the amp in person and have enough experience to hear that the sonics are 'proper'. An OT for instance can produce sound...even what some might think is good sound...and still be very much compromised. IF I hear big, strong output, I can then feel somewhat assured that the trannies are good.
    Having one channel that is not working does establish that that problem occurs early in the circuit. V1 handles both channels. One triode could be out in V1 and cause a dead channel. That channel problem is relatively minor, I would think. There are only a handful of components that are dedicated to only that channel.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    And....those pics could give me a headache looking at the blur going on. LOL...
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  11. #11

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by BurstWurst View Post
    Only pics I was provided. No good pics of x-formers
    Ack!! Essentially all board-parts replaced, lots of dinking with the wiring, tweed gone, speaker replaced with ceramic, handle replaced with something odd.

    Buy the guy a decent dinner and take the amp in payment. There's virtually no collector value left (even with the transformer status unknown). I'd probably politely thank the guy for the offer before declining.

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    I'm not quite as harsh on it as BIngram is, but the seller is not maximizing the opportunity to sell this amp, imho.
    Is the tube chart still in the cab...with a date stamp? IF so and if the transformers are original and functional, then imho there is some sort of value there. The value might be in what are the parts worth, right, moreso than 'how much is this amp worth as a collectable amp?' IT is a vintage---READ: OLD--- player's amp. The cab is worth something to someone who has a 'date-matched' chassis that needs a cab. the transformers are worth something to someone...if they are original and functional....who needs them to complete an otherwise correct amp.
    For a real player, the money might be better invested in a modern clone build, imho. IF someone was trying to sell it to me and couldn't set an asking price, I would offer them $400. IF they said no, I would then ask what they would take. Anything over $575 kills it for me....and that is if the tube chart is there and the trannies are original and good. Why so little? How much for a pro retweed? How much for a correct speaker? How much work is there to be done to get the amp working correctly? Add all of that up to the $550 and you will have maybe $1200-$1500 in it....and that is about as much or more than it will bring on the market IF you found someone who really liked it when you wanted to sell it.
    IF the amp were in perfect working order and a player really liked it...based on experience with this type of amp....maybe it is worth $800??? IN PERFECT WORKING CONDITION.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  13. #13

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    I'm not quite as harsh on it as BIngram is ...
    I think Wally is spot-on. I was being a bit humorous about "buy him dinner & take the amp." But in fairness I did say, "buy him a nice dinner..."

    Agreed for this amp, the originality and correct function of the transformers is everything. And that's because so little remains of anything else.

    If you played it and absolutely loved it​ as it sits, then Wally's figures are about right. The amp has little-or-no resale value because of its condition, but if it gives you a sound you always wanted, there is some value to you to get it and enjoy it. It's just up to you to put a figure on what that enjoyment is worth.

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member CoyotesGator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    The Institute for the Very, Very, Very Nervous
    Posts
    595

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    BurstWurst, you're in the EU correct?

    In general I'm with B and W.

    The photos look horrendous and the description sounds worse.

    A nice dinner and a couple bottles of nice wine.

    It would be easy to spend much more than a quality clone is worth on this one.

    edit: that is little or no original value left.

    Im assuming that the chart is gone from the heat that damaged it.

    $350 USD tops for me, and I really geek on these things, slightly more in the EU.
    As I see it, I serve the beat. Groove is everything.

    Big Al

  15. #15

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Thanks again guys for the feedback. You all have actually been somewhat more optimistic than I have. I spoke with the seller yesterday on this. He did explain that he actually gigged with the amp for 17 years, AFTER the fire! He currently plays a Music Man 1-12 65 which he really likes. So, as a way of gauging his valuation of the Pro, I asked him if he felt the Pro was worth as much as the MM amp, to which he replied no. So, since I got my MM 1-12 65 for $275, and after again telling him, that I'd basically be buying the Pro on a "wing and a prayer", I asked what he thought of the $150 range, and he was receptive. So, I'm thinking that in this price range, it's become somewhat of a no-brainer. I think I'll grab it as a tinkering project. If I can't get it up and running myself, I'll likely send it to one of the more economical amp guys I know to see if he can do anything with it. Sure not gonna invest the kind of money my regular amp guru typically charges. I kinda wish that the chassis wasn't as wide as it is as one consideration was to build it into a (deluxe) 1-12 cab to end up with kind of a Super-Deluxe amp, or a head/cab setup (again, a single 12"). I just have no use for any amp with more than 1 speaker (well, maybe with amps with 10"s , but not a option given this amp's output tranny). Why I need a seventeenth amp is beyond me, but, some addictions die hard

  16. #16

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    BTW, what is the exact correct 15" Jensen speaker for a 58 pro-amp?

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Well, alright then....that is the way to buy it. Imho, if the tube chart is still in the cab with a date stamp on it and if the trannies are original and functioning, then you got a bargain.
    The Pro carried a P15N. I would not be afraid to use a more modern speaker in that amp....maybe an Eminence Big Ben???
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Somewhere between Woodstock and NOVA
    Posts
    13,738

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Some of the later 58 Pro Amps were fitted with a Bassman Power transformer. Again, need to read the numbers on it. Ask if he can take out the chassis and give you backside picture. The output trannie if original should be a 8ohm. Agree with Wally, pictures make me feel woozie. Price seems ok where you are at. Cabinet is definitely worth a good amount if all panels are there.
    Top carves are sexy

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    The 5E5A Pro should have an OT with the numbers 1846 on it....8 ohm OT. The Bassman had a 2 ohm OT number 45429. I would not want to run an 8 ohm speaker on a 2 ohm OT...and I don't think Leo would have done that either. ??
    The PT in that 5E5A should read 1656.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Somewhere between Woodstock and NOVA
    Posts
    13,738

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    The 5E5A Pro should have an OT with the numbers 1846 on it....8 ohm OT. The Bassman had a 2 ohm OT number 45429. I would not want to run an 8 ohm speaker on a 2 ohm OT...and I don't think Leo would have done that either. ??
    The PT in that 5E5A should read 1656.
    I have seen more than one 58-58 Pro with an 8087 Power trannie. If you read my earlier post, I said "This one should be an 8 ohm output". Two things Wally, you continue to have an ax to grind with me, you dont know everything. Do some research and you will find Pro's were given Bassman Power trannies. Those have nothing to do with output trannies ohm reading.
    If you want to take this off the forum, let me know. I had enough of your bullshit
    Last edited by MapleFlame; 03-15-17 at 02:50 PM.
    Top carves are sexy

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Somewhere between Woodstock and NOVA
    Posts
    13,738

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Both have 8087 Power Trannies

    Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/112333718452
    Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/332150989361
    Top carves are sexy

  22. #22

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by BurstWurst View Post
    ... after again telling him, that I'd basically be buying the Pro on a "wing and a prayer", I asked what he thought of the $150 range, and he was receptive. So, I'm thinking that in this price range, it's become somewhat of a no-brainer. ...
    I think it's hard to say no to $150 for any functioning tube amp with a cabinet & a 15. I'd buy it at that price, no doubt.

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    3,018

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by MapleFlame View Post
    I have seen more than one 58-58 Pro with an 8087 Power trannie. If you read my earlier post, I said "This one should be an 8 ohm output". Two things Wally, you continue to have an ax to grind with me, you dont know everything. Do some research and you will find Pro's were given Bassman Power trannies. Those have nothing to do with output trannies ohm reading.
    If you want to take this off the forum, let me know. I had enough of your bullshit
    Mapleflame.....I apologize for misreading that post of yours. I read OT...old eyes. I don't have any axe to grind with you.
    I made a mistake as regards the OT versus the PT.
    As for the PT.... I have owned 5F6A's and I have owned some tweed Pro's. I haven't seen an 8087 in a tweed pro. The voltages would be about 40 volts higher...and I would have noticed that. All of the charts I have say that the Pro should have the 6516, and that is my 5B5, my 5C5 and my 5E5A Pros had in them. IF Fender put the 8087 in some Pros, fine by me. I haven't seen that.....but I haven't seen everything.....just like I don't know everything. I do know that if a 5E5A Pro came around with an 8087 PT in it, I would be looking very, very hard at it. These charts I have do show that the 5F4 Super could carry the 8087 although the Supers prior to that would carry the 6516. Given that, I could accept that a 5E5A Pro, the Super 5F4 or even the 5E7 Bandmaster might carry the 8087...even though these charts call for the 5E7 to carry the 67233 PT. I sold my '59 5E7's long ago so I can't check that.
    Maple, we all have our experiences. We all make mistakes. Hopefully we all learn...I keep trying. Nothing in the Fender factory was written in stone, and I can only go by what I have seen and what is contained in the resources I can find.
    As for those Ebay amps, IF I were looking to buy either one of them, I would have to see some very good shots of those connections made from those 8087 PT's. Fwiw, IF the PT's were 6516's I would also have to see those same solder connections.
    Have a good day......
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    4

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    I'm new here. My take is a little different than others. For me this is a no brainer. Purchase it quickly. I would have offered 1K the way it is described here. I just purchased my 3rd vintage and it is a 59 PRO. I paid considerably more for mine and it went right from the box to my amp tech. I am a player so I purchase players. I have them gone thru and assure they are original spec - not necessarily original parts. I have been fortunate the transformers have been original, but if they were not, I would purchase vintage spec from a reputable supplier especially at this price point. I always run NOS valves which are getting more difficult to source by the day. Mine are all players and were players long before I got them. I clean up the tweed with scissors, repair cabinet as needed, and paint them with clear flat poly finishes to preserve whatever is left. My 58 Super is missing a lot of tweed. It is gorgeous and the sound - oh my. I have been fortunate to have period correct speakers, but not necessarily for the year the amp was produced. Guy's blew them up and fixed them. Just fix it and it will be heaven. If you have to purchase a new speaker, Weber are great, but it could take a year or so to break it in -just keep playing it.

    There is nothing like these amps. I jam mine all of time. The tone is incredible and at 26 watts (Super and Pro) it just doesn't get any better. I have poured liquor thru the Super more than once (shattered the power tubes $$$$$$).

    If 150 is real - you just hit the lottery. Fix it (preferably by a qualified tech) - if you don't like it, put it back on the market - you'll have no trouble.

    I run - 47 Dual Pro, 58 Super, 59 Pro

    Incredible stuff - they make me smile every time.

    That is an amazing price. You are getting a significant piece of musical history. Leo was one of those.

    chr

  25. #25

    Re: 58 Tweed Pro-Amp opportunity

    Quote Originally Posted by MapleFlame View Post
    I have seen more than one 58-58 Pro with an 8087 Power trannie.
    +1, I recently sourced a dead mint one for a friend and realyzed the same!
    Game on!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Scroll Down And Click On All Of Our Sponsors' Logos For Their Websites!