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1960 ES-345 - solution

gavindale

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Messages
446
Hi Wally. I'm didn't start this post to infer that whatever works for you is incorrect or inferior in any way. I looked very long and hard on the internet to find a cable that you are describing and could not find one anywhere. By that I mean a TRS cable with a 1/4" plug on one end and a TR mono 1/4" on the other. I have no idea where you found yours so maybe you would want to share. I also could not find any "Y" patch that went 2 mono inputs that exited as a single mono output. As far as I know they don't exist but if you have sources please share. It was an inability to find anything you describe as owning that made me do what I did. I am not doubting their existence our your method but I'm just explaining that I couldn't find anything on the interweb that came close with the exception of a couple that for some reason went 1/4" stereo or mono on one end that changed to the opposite but they all had 1/8" on the other end. Again, all I'm offering is a suggestion to whomever wishes to use it because I couldn't find anyone else providing what I built for my own use. I never claimed it was perfect or complicated in fact I felt I went the other way by being open and straightforward with my description. I love the LPF for all of the kindness and information that others have shared with me over the last 15+ years I've hung around here and simply am trying to give back.

Peace and love....peace and love!:salude
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
Gavin, I have been making my own cables for almost 50 years. I use Belden cable.
My response was not necessarily to you because I have no problem with your box except I find it superfluous. My response was to the two comments about how a stereo to mono cable was detrimental to tone while a box with a stereo jack on one side and a mono on the other side would 'solve' the problem. My point is that IF a stereo to mono wiring of a cable has an effect on the tone then there a stereo to mono wiring inside of a box would be no different...because the wiring is the same...the two pickup leads are joined at the tip connection of a mono jack or mono plug depending on whether one is wiring a box or a cable. There is no difference.
Fwiw, the last modern Gibson stereo wired guitars I have worked on....2 x B.B. Kings and a Lucille...had two output jacks with very elaborate wiring.
Thanks to all for the thread.... I pulled my 345 out the other day just because of this thread. What a guitar! Lot of sounds in there. I especially like to set the Super Champs about 8 feet apart to achieve a truly WIDE soundstage.
 

denk

New member
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Messages
12
I purchased a blank pedal enclosure and a stereo and a mono jack. Installed the jacks, wired the ground to ground and spliced the two hots together with a pigtail to the mono hot and.....ZANGO...problem solved.

Hello Gavindale,
I have purchased an ES 345 Stereo model guitar that will arrive at the end of the week. I am anticipating needing a similar magic box (Stereo to Mono) like you made. (Crazy that this is the only forum online that I could find through searches, that supported a reasonable workaround for ES345 Stereo guitars. All other options were quite expensive and a bit baffling.)

I understand connecting the grounds from the stereo input socket to the mono output socket in the box, but I want to make sure I get it right on the first attempt. Would you mind clarifying your creation for me? When you stated that "you spliced the two hots together", were you referring to the "tip" and "ring" portions of the input socket? Would you also confirm that you used a Stereo TRS connector 1/4" socket?
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
Denk, in building that box you take the leads from the tip/ring of the stereo jack in the box to the tip connection on the mono jack. This is exactly what you would do IF you had a stereo cord to which you wished to attach a mono jack on the other end. The difference is that with a stereo-to-mono cord, you have only two jacks. IN the box arrangement, you will have two cables with four jacks and also two jacks in side the box....more possibilities of things to go wrong, ime. IT is also exactly the same thing you would achieve with a y plug...into which the two stereo leads would plug with a mono out plug for the amp on the other side. That Y plug will not withstand much abuse, though.
Good luck with the box....
 

denk

New member
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Messages
12
Denk, in building that box you take the leads from the tip/ring of the stereo jack in the box to the tip connection on the mono jack. This is exactly what you would do IF you had a stereo cord to which you wished to attach a mono jack on the other end. The difference is that with a stereo-to-mono cord, you have only two jacks. IN the box arrangement, you will have two cables with four jacks and also two jacks in side the box....more possibilities of things to go wrong, ime. IT is also exactly the same thing you would achieve with a y plug...into which the two stereo leads would plug with a mono out plug for the amp on the other side. That Y plug will not withstand much abuse, though.
Good luck with the box....

Wally,
Appreciate the info on the cable option. From other forums it sounded like the stereo cable to Y monos was an issue. Perhaps I misread it.
 

Wally

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Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
As I have noted in this thread....the only difference between a stereo cable wired with both leads to the tip of a mono cable and the box that Gavin built is that there are more cables, jacks and plugs to fail. the actual results are the same....the two leads from the pickups are being joined at one mono jack/plug with both leads connected to one tip....and both grounds to one ground ring connection.
IF there is a tone problem with one scenario, that problem will exist in the other scenario.
I have tow cables I built for my 1966 ES-345TDC. One is a true stereo with two mono outputs. The other, which I have described here, is exactly like that Pro Audio cable linked above except that mine is built with Belden cable.
I have had such a cable for many, many years.
That said, nothing sounds like one of these guitars run in a truly stereo situation with each pickup run to one of two identical amps separated by a minimum of 6 feet.
 
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denk

New member
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Messages
12
Wally,
Appreciate the further clarification. I guess I was thinking that taking the stereo down to mono was in some way going to cause 'phase cancelling' issues with the audio output. On another note, I have two amps and plan to run the ES 345 in stereo most of the time. My other concern was trying to figure out how to leverage my pedal board. Only half my pedals are stereo, but compression, trem, distortion are mono. Thus the reason for the stereo to mono box or cable questions when leveraging mono effect pedals. I had read so many comments over the years that seemed like the ES 345 stereo models required expensive splitters or ABY boxes with ways to reverse the phase, etc. Glad that is not the case.
 

denk

New member
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Messages
12
Yank the varitone and thank me later.:jim

CDaughtry,
In this particular case, I am looking forward to stereo and varitone as something unique and different. I already have an ES 335 and an ES 345 mono (varitone removed by previous owner). The varitone was very heavy, so the ES 345 mono is very light weight. Once I have tried the new ES 345 Stereo model for a while, I will report on my findings whether to keep it or remove it. At this point, wanting to try it as originally intended, but time will tell.
 

Wilko

All Access/Backstage Pass
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
20,854
Willko,
Thank you for the link to the cable with the stereo (balanced) to mono (unbalanced) connectors. Very helpful. I should have been searching on the words balanced to unbalanced instead of stereo to mono.

More common these days is "TRS" Tip Ring Sleeve (stereo a common application) or "TS" Tip Sleeve. They aren't always stereo is why the change in nomenclature. TRS allows for In/Out "Inserts" on PA audio channels.
 

57gold

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Messages
692
Yanked the Varitone from my 1959 345, actually Hogy of Komet fame did the work.

Unwilling to carry two amps. Stereo to mono cables suck tone as does the Varitone even with the dial switched to bypass. Some may like the honkiness, cocked wah tonality...so they can leave their 345s as is.

Mine now weighs a pound + lighter, is more resonant than before due to space created by removal of circuitry and the double whites sound sweet, open and powerful.

Hogy can reinstall it if I ever tire of it. Can't see this one leaving me.

kQBNUvj.jpg
 

Wally

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Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
Yanked the Varitone from my 1959 345, actually Hogy of Komet fame did the work.

Unwilling to carry two amps. Stereo to mono cables suck tone as does the Varitone even with the dial switched to bypass. Some may like the honkiness, cocked wah tonality...so they can leave their 345s as is.

Mine now weighs a pound + lighter, is more resonant than before due to space created by removal of circuitry and the double whites sound sweet, open and powerful.

Hogy can reinstall it if I ever tire of it. Can't see this one leaving me.

kQBNUvj.jpg

Very sharp guitar you have there, 57Gold.
 

57gold

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Messages
692
Yessir señor Wally, she shore is purty!

Her fraternal twins are also lookers.

1QuwYvN.jpg



The 355 is still burdened with the Varitone choking them double whites. Haven't taken it out cause I'm thinking of selling her.
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
So i just recently picked up a stereo 1960 345 tdc. And ive tried a stereo to mono cable. Sucked tone bad, tried a stereo cable into a y end and thw controls were still weird and tone was sucked. My only thought is to get two amps, try running a y adaptor to both sides of my super reverb, or have glaser rip put the varitone. Love the guitar, but its disheartening to hear the tone suck.

Idk what to do! Help. I dont believe in the box idea, or just a canle conversion.
 

tooold

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
2,071
So i just recently picked up a stereo 1960 345 tdc. And ive tried a stereo to mono cable. Sucked tone bad, tried a stereo cable into a y end and thw controls were still weird and tone was sucked. My only thought is to get two amps, try running a y adaptor to both sides of my super reverb, or have glaser rip put the varitone. Love the guitar, but its disheartening to hear the tone suck.

Idk what to do! Help. I dont believe in the box idea, or just a canle conversion.

Blackface or silverface Fenders are out-of-phase between the two channels - you could do what you're trying on a tweed, but not a Super Reverb.

Stereo to mono will cause tone suck, as you found. You're essentially creating a stereo-to-mono mixer without the resistor network mixing consoles use.

Check that your stereo-to-Y isn't a headphone (three-conductor to three-conductor) splitter, just to make sure. If it is stereo to two x mono, you could try opening up the cable and swapping the two hot leads so you'd have the outputs from the guitar out-of-phase, then you might be able to use it in two channels of the SR.

A nice 345 is one of the few guitars that still gets me wanting. But if I got one, the Varitone would come out immediately. Some people love them, but for everybody else... :dang
 

Wally

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Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
Doc, the channels in your SR are out of phase...as are the pickups in that 345...more than likely. So, if you do run one pickup to one channel, the result will be in phase...with the Normal channel having a bit less gain. You could have the effects in the amp applied to the Normal channel. This would put the channels in phase and equal in gain structure. The guitar would then yield that OOP sound in the middle toggle selector position. The magic of a 345/355 really appears when running through two identical amps set a few feet apart.....ime....
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
ugh, I feel like im in sucha pickle. Im thinking of just getting another deluxe reverb and running two amps. I am going to get a true stereo Y cable without an adaptor and just see what i can do. it sucks that the SR and other fenders are out of phase. I just dont know exactly what to do. Getting a tweed amp (which I want) isnt in the cards for a while. and I dont wanna go back to marshalls because I want the fender reverb. (no pedals are as good as fender reverb, and the reverb units suck too much tone for me).

I wonder if its worth trying to mod the SR and make them inphase.
 
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