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1960 ES-345 - solution

Joth

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Nov 5, 2018
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There are a few reasons why the stereo varitone circuit is silly, and then three extrasilly reasons when you attempt to combine them to mono.

Firstly the obvious out of phase issue when pickups are combined, this can be corrected by flipping the magnet in either pickup, okay some people like it out of phase, but most don't.

Second, the 500k volume pots are wired right at the end of the signal path as they go to the output jack, when you jumper these together to mono, either in the guitar or via any type of Y cord or jumper box, they interact with each other and both volumes affect both pickups regardless of the pickup selection, the mono varitone and 335 are not wired this way, they have the volume pots as the first component the pickups go to, before the selector switch, and they remain independent unless both pickups are selected.

Thirdly and most important, as a result of the volume arrangement above, the 500k pots are effectively now 250k as they are now in parallel, and this is the 'tone suck' that is experienced when doing the mono jumpering. You may know that folks take the 300k pots out of early 80s dot reissue 335s to replace them with 500ks, similar scene, but worse.
Added to this, when the varitone is engaged, each pickups signal goes through a 100k resistor on the way thru the varitone to the volume pots, further inhibiting signal.

I recommend anyone interested in abandoning this arrangement, to try a new harness made up in this circuit I have seen posted here before, with one further mod http://storage.canalblog.com/70/58/274546/17141044.gif
This is the mono varitone, based on the 335 style arrangement of volume and tone pots, the mod illustrated in here is that the switch used is a 2-pole 6 position rotary switch, with the second pole used to activate a true bypass for position 1. This type of switch is easy to get and so are the capacitors used, and you will reuse one of the two existing chokes. My only one further suggestion is to leave out the 10meg resistors entirely.
 

brandtkronholm

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deytookerjaabs

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I'm looking forward to your report! Thanks!

Are you able share the price you paid for the box?



Oh, $159 plus shipping IIRC. As a former do-it-yourselfer I just don't spend much time on projects anymore or I'd have attempted a build, lol. Hopefully it gets here in the next day or two, definitely hoping to have it for a friday night show. Will give my best synopsis when I can!
 

brandtkronholm

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Oh, $159 plus shipping IIRC. As a former do-it-yourselfer I just don't spend much time on projects anymore or I'd have attempted a build, lol. Hopefully it gets here in the next day or two, definitely hoping to have it for a friday night show. Will give my best synopsis when I can!

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.


Got it in the mail this afternoon about 10 minutes before leaving for a gig. I took the pedal and the Freddie, they performed admirably! The volume loss on the varitone is much more bearable and really important for me is the LED was still bright via battery after the 4 hour set...I loathe short battery life. I'll take some pics etc in the next couple days. Bottom line, it was like a normal guitar and to me I preferred running the pedal stereo to mono than running a stereo cable into the two channels of the amp which I is what I did last week. It looks real sturdy too and it has those hand screws so you can replace the battery without needing a screwdriver.


So far.....10/10. :salude But I'll try to add pics etc soon.
 

zoommutt

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I hope this works great. I have just been using the Freddie with the plug half in. Will this sound better?
 

brandtkronholm

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Got it in the mail this afternoon about 10 minutes before leaving for a gig. I took the pedal and the Freddie, they performed admirably! The volume loss on the varitone is much more bearable and really important for me is the LED was still bright via battery after the 4 hour set...I loathe short battery life. I'll take some pics etc in the next couple days. Bottom line, it was like a normal guitar and to me I preferred running the pedal stereo to mono than running a stereo cable into the two channels of the amp which I is what I did last week. It looks real sturdy too and it has those hand screws so you can replace the battery without needing a screwdriver.


So far.....10/10. :salude But I'll try to add pics etc soon.

Very cool. I think I'll get one in the coming months... I'm looking forward to the pictures.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Nothing too gnarly about the cosmetics:

3gqwV4Tl.jpg




It was explained to me that it "fools the guitar into thinking the signal is stereo" so you don't get certain bits of frequency summing/cancelling. Scott can explain it better than I if you shoot him an email, nice guy, quick shipping, great service, etc. I've used it again the past few days and oh I'm so glad I bought it, haha. The mono/stereo switch is for if you're plugging in the stereo guitar with TRS cable then if you want to switch to a regular guitar you can.
 

brandtkronholm

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Could you post pictures of the sides (input/outputs) please?

Thanks!

(I think I'll be ordering one in a few weeks!)
 

zoommutt

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Forgive my iganance,but in this thread does it tell where to get this box?
 

deytookerjaabs

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Here's the sides

j2xz3g2l.jpg


0ZKQJpKl.jpg




There's not a direct link up yet as the pedal is new but to get one I'd go to bmfeffects.com>menu>contact and message Scott who said he recently got a batch in. I'm sure he'll get a link up soon.
 

brandtkronholm

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/10bF70JNxFmU5BgCh4K2Jcc6NyulphYUF/view



Here's an article, with video link, that Scott from BMF effects wrote on the Varitone circuit along with his various solutions. He builds an "ES Box" that ain't cheap but I opted to take the plunge and will report back after it arrives.

Are you able to provide contact info for Scott (or whomever) at BMF effects for me please? I filled out their online contact info page last week and haven't heard back yet. (Or is patience required here?)

Thanks!
 

deytookerjaabs

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Are you able to provide contact info for Scott (or whomever) at BMF effects for me please? I filled out their online contact info page last week and haven't heard back yet. (Or is patience required here?)

Thanks!


Hmm, he was real quick to respond but the website might be a different thing or he's waiting a minute to get the stuff up for sale officially, who knows. If you have a TGP account (it's free!) you can PM his user name "BMF Effects" which is how I got a hold of him after reading that article.


Update, I'm still on the stock battery:

yMCvM6Jh.jpg



:hank
 

BMF Effects

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/10bF70JNxFmU5BgCh4K2Jcc6NyulphYUF/view Here's an article, with video link, that Scott from BMF effects wrote on the Varitone circuit along with his various solutions. He builds an "ES Box" that ain't cheap but I opted to take the plunge and will report back after it arrives.

Hey guys, hope all is well. Thanks for @deytookerjabs for mentioning the ES-Box but I do need to clarify that I did not write the article. I've been a Varitone fan and have been mildly obsessed with the "how's and why's" for a long time. My Dad sent me the article years ago and I decided to revisit it when I got my CS Freddie King. The end result was the ES-Box which I had intended to build just for myself but the smallest amount of PCB's I could order was five, so there ended up being some extra ones which all sold and we're on the second batch. If I can answer any questions, please feel free to message me.

Are you able to provide contact info for Scott (or whomever) at BMF effects for me please? I filled out their online contact info page last week and haven't heard back yet. (Or is patience required here?)

Thanks!

@brandtkronholm...I didn't receive anything via the website so I'll open up a trouble ticket with the hosting company but I did reply to your message on The Gear Page. I try to (and generally do) reply within 24 hours so if you don't hear from me, then something got lost along the way.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Hey guys, hope all is well. Thanks for @deytookerjabs for mentioning the ES-Box but I do need to clarify that I did not write the article.



My bad! I got a bit confused there, great article that any 345'er should read regardless, lol.


So mine ain't a first batch? Uhg, I guess it'll never be worth a massive tone nostalgia upcharge in 20 years, I'll just have to settle using my lowly second batcher :salude
 
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