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  1. #41
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Doc, IF you want the out of phase relationship of the pickups in that guitar---as most stereo guitars' pickups are... then the solution would be to apply the effects to the Normal channel....voila! channels are in phase and the 345 into it would yield the out of phase sound when in the middle position. Or...if your guitar's pickups are in phase, then the results would be the big in phase sound.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  2. #42
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Doc, IF you want the out of phase relationship of the pickups in that guitar---as most stereo guitars' pickups are... then the solution would be to apply the effects to the Normal channel....voila! channels are in phase and the 345 into it would yield the out of phase sound when in the middle position. Or...if your guitar's pickups are in phase, then the results would be the big in phase sound.
    ugh, only problem THERE is, i want the fender reverb on the pickup with the effects haha

  3. #43
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorDox View Post
    ugh, only problem THERE is, i want the fender reverb on the pickup with the effects haha
    That is the beauty of it, Doc. Applying the effects to the Normal channel is what puts the two channels in phase because that Vibrato Ch has one more gain stage in it in the Reverb recovery circuit. versus only two gain stages in the Normal Ch preamp circuit. When the reverb is applied to the Normal channel, that establishes three preamp gain stages in both channels.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  4. #44
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    That is the beauty of it, Doc. Applying the effects to the Normal channel is what puts the two channels in phase because that Vibrato Ch has one more gain stage in it in the Reverb recovery circuit. versus only two gain stages in the Normal Ch preamp circuit. When the reverb is applied to the Normal channel, that establishes three preamp gain stages in both channels.
    now wait, i can still get reverb on the normal non vibrato side of the amp? I thought I couldnt. I tried that last week but there was nothing. now i guess if im using my guitar in the middle position then id be okay. I also never pllug in there so as long as I can get reverb, im fine. I dont do much with vibrato unless im by myself, doing bad Ry Cooder impressions

    l

  5. #45
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    That is the beauty of it, Doc. Applying the effects to the Normal channel is what puts the two channels in phase because that Vibrato Ch has one more gain stage in it in the Reverb recovery circuit. versus only two gain stages in the Normal Ch preamp circuit. When the reverb is applied to the Normal channel, that establishes three preamp gain stages in both channels.
    or are you saying, mod the super reverb to get reverb on the normal channel?

  6. #46
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Yes, Doc....the effects can be applied to that Normal channel which adds a third gain stage to that channel which brings the two channels in phase. Then..plug in a stereo Gibson with OOP pickups--one to each channel of that SR or any other two channel reverb Fender that can be modded this way--- and the middle position on the selector switch on the guitar will give you both channels, each with a signal that is OOP to the other...voila...the two pickups together are less powerful, more articulate, and brighter together than if they were in phase. Some famous Les Paul was wired this way....OOP. I sometimes wonder if that player had heard a stereo Gibson and liked that OOP middle position????
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  7. #47
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    For the record, heres a picture of my two.

    1960 ES 345 Stereo, factory hardtail.
    1970 335.


  8. #48
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Yes, Doc....the effects can be applied to that Normal channel which adds a third gain stage to that channel which brings the two channels in phase. Then..plug in a stereo Gibson with OOP pickups--one to each channel of that SR or any other two channel reverb Fender that can be modded this way--- and the middle position on the selector switch on the guitar will give you both channels, each with a signal that is OOP to the other...voila...the two pickups together are less powerful, more articulate, and brighter together than if they were in phase. Some famous Les Paul was wired this way....OOP. I sometimes wonder if that player had heard a stereo Gibson and liked that OOP middle position????
    Okay I got you, im going to start planning this mod, or take it to a friend. Im definitely frustrated with it overall, just havent got it situated with my rig yet. First time in 12 months that ive missed my blues breakers marshall

  9. #49
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Doc, one or both of those channels can be revoiced during the process to yield a hotter channel that exhibits less of a mid-scoop. I like to do this for versatility. However, if one wants to run a 345 in stereo, the two channels need to as much alike as possible, imho. So, IF one liked that middier, hotter thing that the 5F6A/Marshall Blues Breaker circuit does, both channels could be taken in that direction.
    My '66 is like a blend of your two guitars....beautiful cherry red with a trapeze tailpi3ce.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  10. #50
    Les Paul Forum Member johnnyslim's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post
    Yank the varitone and thank me later.
    What Charlie said. I got a 1961 ES-345 that sounded great. I tried a single cable that would hit both notches in the jack to "make it mono". It worked but in the end I pulled the varitone out. Just let me say...those 1961 PAF's became completely different animals with the varitone out.
    Winning isn't everything...but losing isn't anything.

  11. #51

    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    The box solution to the middle position both pickups together on an 1959 60 es 345 is an interesting idea.. The y cable is cumbersome and probably not the best way to do stereo. Instead it's possible to have one stereo to stereo cable and with an option to select mono or stereo in phase or out of phase.

    Maybe someone post a diagram showing how we can wire a stereo output lead to stereo input jack to a box with a phase switch that electrically reverses one pickup so as to you having a choice of in phase or out of phase sound in middle position without the need to mess around reversing magnets and locking you to in or out of phase choice. Does this make sense or is it gobbledegook?

  12. #52
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    Esseries Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Very sharp guitar you have there, 57Gold.
    Yup, just had the same Varitonectomy performed on my First Rack 1959 ES-345T. Similarly, the zebra PAFs now perform to their full potential in addition to guitar weight loss! Cheers! RAB

  13. #53

    Re: 1960 ES-345 - solution

    I thought this was an interesting video on youtube where the true bypass versus varitone bypass are compared. What do you think?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvuwQmKSQwE

    Of course the OOP issue is another point however but...

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