The Fender Forum
NEW! LPF Facebook Page
LilyPix
Merchandise & Donations
NEW! Burst Serial Log Home Page
LPF Homesite
Page 2 of 18 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 681
  1. #41
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    147

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by thin sissy View Post
    Alright, thanks Will Florian provide the certificate when the guitar is done?

    Keep us posted with pics!
    Yes, he will provide the CITES certificate.

  2. #42
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Pinehurst, NC
    Posts
    1,608

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    New pictures from Florian today.

    Now he has replaced the plastic plugs that Gibson uses to align the fretboard to the neck with mahogny ones.

    Before:



    After:

    This is fascinating-- is this making it more "correct' in that the original bursts had wood plugs rather than plastic?

  3. #43
    Les Paul Forum Member Bluuzman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,667

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    New pictures from Florian today.

    Now he has replaced the plastic plugs that Gibson uses to align the fretboard to the neck with mahogny ones.

    Didn't know the existence of this plug. Could you post a wide angle picture to get an impression where this plug in relation to the whole neck is positioned?

  4. #44
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Somewhere between Woodstock and NOVA
    Posts
    13,911

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluuzman View Post
    Didn't know the existence of this plug. Could you post a wide angle picture to get an impression where this plug in relation to the whole neck is positioned?
    If you look closely, the start of the body maple and tenon is to the right. I think theres another one on the opposite side 3/4's the way up the neck
    Top carves are sexy

  5. #45
    Les Paul Forum Member Maxmc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    462

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    Now the original fretboard is off:
    This gives a better idea of these plugs.
    P.S. The back board behind the handtools rivals the top of the guitar!

  6. #46

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Looking at this thread raises a question in my mind. Maybe you guys know the answer.

    Now, looking at those mahogany dowels, that is the kind of detail you would never see unless you completely disassemble an instrument.

    So you might think my question is "why bother" -it will (hopefully) never be seen. But that isn't my question (although I can understand someone asking that).

    No, my question is who the hell is tearing real 59 Bursts to pieces in order to discover those things in the first place??

    Another quick thought:

    I'm sure Florian does a great job - but wouldn't it be easier for Gibson to supply a set of new parts to designated "Makeover Artists", in order that they don't have the disassembling issues?

    An original 50's instrument had not been made, torn apart, and then made again.

    We blame so many things for tiny changes in tone - perhaps the very process we are seeing here might have a negative effect??

  7. #47
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,171

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by majorminor View Post
    Looking at this thread raises a question in my mind. Maybe you guys know the answer.

    Now, looking at those mahogany dowels, that is the kind of detail you would never see unless you completely disassemble an instrument.

    So you might think my question is "why bother" -it will (hopefully) never be seen. But that isn't my question (although I can understand someone asking that).

    No, my question is who the hell is tearing real 59 Bursts to pieces in order to discover those things in the first place??

    Another quick thought:

    I'm sure Florian does a great job - but wouldn't it be easier for Gibson to supply a set of new parts to designated "Makeover Artists", in order that they don't have the disassembling issues?

    An original 50's instrument had not been made, torn apart, and then made again.

    We blame so many things for tiny changes in tone - perhaps the very process we are seeing here might have a negative effect??

    I'm sure there have been many original bursts that, during repairs, allowed luthiers to understand how they were built. Neck have been removed. Fingerboards removed. etc. etc. This isn't guesswork. This is based on 50+ years of 50s guitars being repaired.

  8. #48

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    I'm sure there have been many original bursts that, during repairs, allowed luthiers to understand how they were built. Neck have been removed. Fingerboards removed. etc. etc. This isn't guesswork. This is based on 50+ years of 50s guitars being repaired.
    Yes, I get that. But if you had the choice, would you rather have a damaged repaired 59, or a undamaged one? And would you pay more for the torn apart repaired one? That, effectively, is what is on offer here.

    And has anyone done comparisons on before/after tone? Sure, the cork sniffers will say it's MORE accurate - even under the skin - but is it a better guitar to play? Does it sound better?

    The problem here is that due to the way it happens, you are without the guitar for weeks, so no side-by-side comparison can ever be done.

    Just like folks who buy expensive vitamin pills, the placebo effect will make your brain believe that the extra outlay of cash is beneficial.

    But is it really?

    Gibson must be fully aware of what these guys are doing - so, as I said, why not ask Gibson to not assemble your TH - just let them supply you all the parts - a win win situation - Gibson saves assembly costs, so makes more profit - and the "makeover" guy doesn't have to use all those chemicals and crowbars to take the thing to bits!

    And the end user gets an instrument that has only been assembled ONCE....... just like a real 59...........

  9. #49
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cumming, GA
    Posts
    3,395

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Why the fuck is Gibson putting plastic locating buttons on their Flagship 'just like the original arm-and-a-leg' guitar?
    That wasn't on pre TH models AFAIK?

  10. #50

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by majorminor View Post
    Yes, I get that. But if you had the choice, would you rather have a damaged repaired 59, or a undamaged one? And would you pay more for the torn apart repaired one? That, effectively, is what is on offer here.

    And has anyone done comparisons on before/after tone? Sure, the cork sniffers will say it's MORE accurate - even under the skin - but is it a better guitar to play? Does it sound better?

    The problem here is that due to the way it happens, you are without the guitar for weeks, so no side-by-side comparison can ever be done.

    Just like folks who buy expensive vitamin pills, the placebo effect will make your brain believe that the extra outlay of cash is beneficial.

    But is it really?

    Gibson must be fully aware of what these guys are doing - so, as I said, why not ask Gibson to not assemble your TH - just let them supply you all the parts - a win win situation - Gibson saves assembly costs, so makes more profit - and the "makeover" guy doesn't have to use all those chemicals and crowbars to take the thing to bits!

    And the end user gets an instrument that has only been assembled ONCE....... just like a real 59...........
    Gibson would never supply parts to luthiers rebuilding their products. It's ludicrous to even suggest that. In fact, it's because of luthiers like Florian and companies like Historic Makeovers that prompted Gibson to start reusing Hide Glue for attaching fretboards to necks and necks to bodies. They actually went a step too far by also hide gluing the maple tops, as Gibson used "Radio Glue" for that in the 50s, a glue that was cured by microwaves. Hide glue was used because it could be softened by low heat, so that repairmen could remove the necks and freboards, if necessary. It was a happy coincidence that dried, crystallized hide glue sounded so good, too. They used the radio glue on the tops because Gibson never imagined anyone would want to retop their guitars.

    All the changes Gibson has instituted over the last couple of years has been in response to the Makeover phenomenon to recapture lost business. They were losing sales to people who instead of buying a new R8 or R9 were buying them used and having them made over.

    As to whether a makeover plays and sounds better, that's an unqualified YES! My '03 R9, which was made over by Historic Makeovers, is far more resonant and more vocal than it was prior the makeover.

  11. #51

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Fan View Post
    Gibson would never supply parts to luthiers rebuilding their products. It's ludicrous to even suggest that. .
    Have it your way, my friend.

    Ten years ago, the record companies would never allow their stuff to be downloaded - and vinyl was dead. And it was ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

    Now, the music industry does very well, thankyou, from downloads (and have drastically reduced their manufacturing overhead), and vinyl is the fastest growing segment in retail music sales.

    Give Gibson ten years, and they could well have appointed specialist luthiers offering personal TH service all over the world - for a Rolls Royce price tag, of course.

    By doing that, they could well corner a large part of the profit line currently going to "makeover" businesses.

    Why buy a factory produced instrument, when I can watch someone craft my made to measure TH from the ground up?

    The companies succeeding in the twenty first century are the ones that innovate. Or they can just keep on doing what they've always done.........



  12. #52

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    With big box music stores in serious trouble because of the Internet, I think it is far more likely that within ten years, you'll be buying your Gibson direct from the factory. No more dealers. They'll either pass on the savings or add the dealer markup to their bottom line. Guess which one they'll do?

  13. #53
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    the netherlands
    Posts
    169

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    the music industry doing well??? from downloads ? spotify pays 0,0005 per stream to the record company, so a million streams would equal 5K, that is before all costs are deducted to record, marketing, video etc imagine how much the artist is making from this ?

  14. #54
    Les Paul Forum Member sapi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Malta, somewhere in the mid of the Med Sea.
    Posts
    1,292

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Fan View Post
    As to whether a makeover plays and sounds better, that's an unqualified YES! My '03 R9, which was made over by Historic Makeovers, is far more resonant and more vocal than it was prior the makeover.
    Oh YES! Agreed! Day and night difference! My '07 R9 was always a great sounding guitar, after the HM it was off the charts! Nothing mysterious about this, the HM process works!
    ~ Shanti ~

    "Without the buzz and the feel, we can go to sleep..."

  15. #55

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Fan View Post
    It was a happy coincidence that dried, crystallized hide glue sounded so good, too.

  16. #56
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Shakedown Street
    Posts
    1,819

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    First off this is one of the most informative threads in a while .Major kudos to all the posters and for thinking about this subject in different ways than we normally do. A lot of fine points to think about?

  17. #57

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by majorminor View Post
    Why buy a factory produced instrument, when I can watch someone craft my made to measure TH from the ground up?
    Not knocking them but your ideas are a bit far fetched. How could Gibson offer a lifetime warranty on guitars made by third parties?

    It's simple. If you want a modern Les Paul built from the ground up like in 1959, you buy a replica. Gibson can't and won't produce an exact copy.

    Also, you can X-ray a burst to find some of these invisible details. No need to destroy it.
    Tim

  18. #58
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Pinehurst, NC
    Posts
    1,608

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    what's happening today Orreman?!

    BTW how long does a project like this take?

    More pics? feed us!

  19. #59
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cumming, GA
    Posts
    3,395

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Kim at HM advised me that every guitar that have done uses the plastic locators on the neck- they too replace them with wood. I wonder how that improves the 'mass-production' process? Not much room for alignment error with such relatively small parts.

  20. #60

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    The skills of the luthiers doing these makeovers is far greater than the folks at Gibson assembling guitars.

    It is hardly a case of some hack, tearing apart guitars.

  21. #61

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Plains View Post
    Not knocking them but your ideas are a bit far fetched..
    Yes they are. But go on any business course these days, and they will preach "thinking outside the box". They call it innovation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Plains View Post
    It's simple. If you want a modern Les Paul built from the ground up like in 1959, you buy a replica.
    I disagree. Folks who want a 59 Les Paul want a Gibson. That's why the THs continue to go up in price!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Plains View Post
    Also, you can X-ray a burst to find some of these invisible details. No need to destroy it.
    So you have X-rays that can determine age and type of wood? And the composition of glues? Pretty cool!


    I'm not saying that this is gonna happen. I am simply suggesting that it is possible.

    To suggest it could not be done is, with respect, a little blinkered. There are millions of franchises out there that manage to make sure their franchisees do the job properly. How do they do that?

    And how does, say, Apple make sure the Chinese sub contracters produce phones and computers up to the desired quality? It's not easy - but it IS possible.


    Here's what Gibson could do:

    1. Using third parties for anonymity, they send instruments to all the "makeover" guys, and order all the "improvements" that those guys offer.

    2. When the guitars arrive back at Gibson, they are reverse engineered (a fancy way of saying ripped apart) and all the modifications are noted.

    3. The Custom Shop produces prototypes containing ALL of the "makeover" modifications.

    4. Gibson puts together a franchise package to be aimed at rebuilder/luthiers who have the best reputation. In return for a given fee, along with a % of each instrument, they will receive training at the factory, and a set of standards laid down, to which the franchisees would agree via a contract. All parts for the instrument would be supplied by Gibson. A quality control process would be created - I could go into far more detail on QC, but it CAN be done in various ways. In return for this, the franchisee will be able to advertise as say "A Gibson Accredited Luthier". Initially, maybe 2 in the US (East Coast and West Coast), 1 in the UK, 1 in Europe, 2 in Japan.

    5. A new level of instrument would then become available. Call it what you will - "Ultra Historic", "Hand Built Historic", "Total Historic", whatever. It would be priced higher than the current THs - and would be available exclusively via the "Gibson Accredited Luthier" network. I think we all agree that these guys will do a better job than the factory.


    I know it sounds far fetched, but if there are enough folks out there prepared to pay enough to keep the "makeover" guys in business, then there is no reason why Gibson shouldn't be able to bring that business back in house, and make money from it.

    It could even free up enough factory space that they could bring the prices down on factory built instruments, and maybe even bring Epiphone production back to the US!
    Last edited by majorminor; 02-09-17 at 09:37 AM.

  22. #62
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    147

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Top stripped today!

    As you can see Gibson stains the TH guitars with yellow water-based stain which is not historically correct.
    The originals were yellowed with the pigment in the lacquer.

    I always thought it looked too yellow in a artificial way.
    It will be amazing in Pearly Gates finish!


  23. #63
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    147

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Pellman73 View Post
    what's happening today Orreman?!

    BTW how long does a project like this take?

    More pics? feed us!
    Hi,

    Today the top has been stripped!

    It takes about 4-6 weeks for a complete makeover.

  24. #64
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Shakedown Street
    Posts
    1,819

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Gibson is in the business of making guitars ,not piece meal building and then subcontracting out there top of the line custom shop creations and really dream guitars .To each there own to chase after there dream guitar but Gibson has been making instruments for what 150 years and it is a stretch that they would alter there build practices to essentially build KIT guitars .They are to big and world renowned for the highest quality instruments .I am most certainly not knocking this process but it just seems to me not what Gibson does .

  25. #65
    Les Paul Forum Member sapi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Malta, somewhere in the mid of the Med Sea.
    Posts
    1,292

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    Top stripped today!

    As you can see Gibson stains the TH guitars with yellow water-based stain which is not historically correct.
    The originals were yellowed with the pigment in the lacquer.

    I always thought it looked too yellow in a artificial way.
    It will be amazing in Pearly Gates finish!

    YES! It's gonna be NICE!
    ~ Shanti ~

    "Without the buzz and the feel, we can go to sleep..."

  26. #66
    Les Paul Forum Member The Shifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    3,325

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by majorminor View Post

    Ten years ago, the record companies would never allow their stuff to be downloaded - and vinyl was dead. And it was ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

    Now, the music industry does very well, thankyou, from downloads (and have drastically reduced their manufacturing overhead), and vinyl is the fastest growing segment in retail music sales.
    Sorry to be another one to further derail this thread, but if you compared my BMI check from 10 years ago to now, you'd see the music biz is far from doing very well.

  27. #67

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shifter View Post
    Sorry to be another one to further derail this thread, but if you compared my BMI check from 10 years ago to now, you'd see the music biz is far from doing very well.
    Here's an extract from the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry Digital Music Report 2015:




    "In 2014, the industry's global digital revenues increased by 6.9% to $6.85 BILLION"

    I don't doubt what you are saying, my friend, but those are the figures - increased every year for the last 6.

    My apologies for diverting the tread, but I am discussing makeovers, so hopefully on topic.
    Last edited by majorminor; 02-09-17 at 01:23 PM.

  28. #68
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Pinehurst, NC
    Posts
    1,608

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    Hi,

    Today the top has been stripped!

    It takes about 4-6 weeks for a complete makeover.
    Thanks !

    well this is going to be super fun to follow along. I'm guzzling the kool aid now!

    keep Em coming and .... damn you! You've got me thinking about doing this myself!

    All the conversion details that you bring along w the pics are great. No detail too small as far as this geek is concerned!

  29. #69
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,171

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by majorminor View Post
    Here's an extract from the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry Digital Music Report 2015:




    "In 2014, the industry's global digital revenues increased by 6.9% to $6.85 BILLION"

    I don't doubt what you are saying, my friend, but those are the figures - increased every year for the last 6.

    My apologies for diverting the tread, but I am discussing makeovers, so hopefully on topic.
    I bet if you showed a graph of the collective amount of money that musicians have made in the same time frame, it would look a bit different.

  30. #70
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Feuding With "Devil Anse" Hatfield on the Tug Fork
    Posts
    2,690

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by callaway_1 View Post
    The skills of the luthiers doing these makeovers is far greater than the folks at Gibson assembling guitars.

    It is hardly a case of some hack, tearing apart guitars.
    Is that so?

    You are aware that many of the "folks at Gibson", such as the guys shaping and fitting necks by hand have been doing this work for years? Same with the folks spraying the finishes, making the bodies, doing the PLEKS, and accomplishing guitar setups.

    Sure there is a lot of CNC and other automation at Gibson's Nashville plant, but that is a reflection on the volume of units manufactured and the requirement for accurate, consistent, precise, and high quality components. Show me a modern production facility that doesn't use CNC and automation..........

    You need only read the glowing remarks on this forum posted by happy new owners of new Gibson True Historic Les Pauls to appreciate just how skilled Gibson workers really are.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  31. #71

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    I bet if you showed a graph of the collective amount of money that musicians have made in the same time frame, it would look a bit different.
    I agree with you wholeheartedly , my friend, but my original point (only used to illustrate another point, so fairly irrelevant) was not about individual musicians - it was about Record Companies.

    The main point I was discussing related to makeovers on Gibson guitars....

  32. #72

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Plains View Post
    That's cool. It's your money, do as you wish, but why didn't you buy a regular historic to do that to? To pay a premium for (marketing) Gibson's most faithful recreation to date, and then give it a makeover, is sort of like paying twice for the same thing. You pay a premium to say "I have a True Historic" but now it's just a makeover no better than a non-TH makeover.
    If you want a REAL True Historic you need the BRW board. I think if one was to go to all the expense and trouble to have a BRW upgrade you may as well go the whole hog so to speak. I get it, considering I generally think make overs are dumb! I would think twice about spending so much dough on a TH in the first place as they don't have BRW. I demand that in the next evolution.

  33. #73
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Lake Ontario shore
    Posts
    12,988

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by djangolad View Post
    If you want a REAL True Historic you need the BRW board. I think if one was to go to all the expense and trouble to have a BRW upgrade you may as well go the whole hog so to speak. I get it, considering I generally think make overs are dumb! I would think twice about spending so much dough on a TH in the first place as they don't have BRW. I demand that in the next evolution.
    Sure. Maybe demand baby sealskin case covering, elephant ivory nuts and whale baleen binding too.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  34. #74
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Pinehurst, NC
    Posts
    1,608

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    Sure. Maybe demand baby sealskin case covering, elephant ivory nuts and whale baleen binding too.
    The baby sealskin cases are fine as long as you have a CITES certificate. I've got one and its really nice. Much more waterproof than the classic liftons.

  35. #75
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    147

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Here you can see that Gibson made a poor job when glueing in the neck. It's not flat at all. This means that the fretboard has been resting on a pretty thick layer of hide glue.
    Florian and I decided today that he will do a full neck reset on the guitar. This will give the guitar better tone and sustain.










  36. #76
    Les Paul Forum Member fender69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Out in the Country
    Posts
    943

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    ^ Wow.....just wow..t

    Really is a beautiful top though.
    Last edited by fender69; 02-10-17 at 01:01 PM.

  37. #77
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Feuding With "Devil Anse" Hatfield on the Tug Fork
    Posts
    2,690

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    "Here you can see that Gibson made a poor job when glueing in the neck. It's not flat at all. This means that the fretboard has been resting on a pretty thick layer of hide glue. [I doubt this was actually the case].
    Florian and I decided today that he will do a full neck reset on the guitar.
    This will give the guitar better tone and sustain."

    BREAK.................................

    If I'm not mistaken, the completed fingerboard is glued to the one-piece mahogany neck section before the assembled unit is fitted and glued in to the mortise (neck pocket) in the body. In all likelihood the two sections comprising the neck were mated perfectly and glued up without any gaps or flaws.

    If there was an issue with the neck fit, most likely it was the mating of the outside edges of the neck/fingerboard (last 6 frets) to the underlying maple cap at the neck pocket. In other words, the carve of the maple cap in the area of the neck pocket was not sanded down sufficiently to allow for a flush, gap free, glue joint with the outside edges of the fingerboard (see OPs photos).

    Seems like the most efficient solution is to properly sand down the maple cap in the area where the fingerboard overlaps it, to enable the two surfaces to mate properly without any gap. A neck reset is overkill and does not address the cause of the issue originally. DO NOT DO A NECK RESET.

    Take a look at this You Tube video tour of the Gibson Custom Shop, around 4:15, which shows the neck fit of a True Historic Les Paul. There are also other instances in the video where the Les Paul neck construction is shown.

    Last edited by marshall1987; 02-11-17 at 02:12 AM.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  38. #78
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    147

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    "Here you can see that Gibson made a poor job when glueing in the neck. It's not flat at all. This means that the fretboard has been resting on a pretty thick layer of hide glue. [I doubt this was actually the case].
    Florian and I decided today that he will do a full neck reset on the guitar.
    This will give the guitar better tone and sustain."

    BREAK.................................

    If I'm not mistaken, the completed fingerboard is glued to the one-piece mahogany neck section before the assembled unit is fitted and glued in to the mortise (neck pocket) in the body. In all likelihood the two sections comprising the neck were mated perfectly and glued up without any gaps or flaws.

    If there was an issue with the neck fit, most likely it was the mating of the outside edges of the neck/fingerboard (last 6 frets) to the underlying maple cap at the neck pocket. In other words, the carve of the maple cap in the area of the neck pocket was not sanded down sufficiently to allow for a flush, gap free, glue joint with the outside edges of the fingerboard (see OPs photos).

    Seems like the most efficient solution is to properly sand down the maple cap in the area where the fingerboard overlaps it, to enable the two surfaces to mate properly without any gap. A neck reset is overkill and does not address the cause of the issue originally. DO NOT DO A NECK RESET.

    Take a look at this You Tube video tour of the Gibson Custom Shop, around 4:15, which shows the neck fit of a True Historic Les Paul. There are also other instances in the video where the Les Paul neck construction is shown.


    Well, it´s more to it than that. We don´t know how Gibson did it with this guitar, but the fretboard wasn't touching the neck within the neck pocket. There was´t hardly any glue there at all. Therefor we want to pull the neck off and see how the pocket looks inside. Florian told me that he often has to reset the necks because Gibson glues on the fretboard before the neck goes on the guitar. This means that sometimes the neck is not sitting properly in the neck pocket.

  39. #79
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Pinehurst, NC
    Posts
    1,608

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    Well, it´s more to it than that. We don´t know how Gibson did it with this guitar, but the fretboard wasn't touching the neck within the neck pocket. There was´t hardly any glue there at all. Therefor we want to pull the neck off and see how the pocket looks inside. Florian told me that he often has to reset the necks because Gibson glues on the fretboard before the neck goes on the guitar. This means that sometimes the neck is not sitting properly in the neck pocket.
    Im not a master wood worker but I did stay in a holiday in express.

    ok something logically does not make sense here to me. Somebody correct me (and it's a good chance I'm wrong!)

    If (a) the fretboard is glued to the neck (b) before it goes on the guitar then (c) how It sits in the neck pocket should not matter with regards to the fretboard's position relative to the neck

    UNLESS AS I SEE IT

    the thickness of the body of the guitar in the joint is greater than it should be (front to back) In which case it kind of pries that last part of the fretboard off the neck when it's joined so there is that little gap?

    in which case just sanding the body down there as marshall1987 said should be all you need to do.

    just trying to understand this. I'd like to see where I'm wrong because there is a good chance I am.

    btw in the video at 4 minutes you can watch the guy do a joint. Maybe it was a Monday when they did yours!!!

    this is fun.
    Last edited by Pellman73; 02-11-17 at 08:42 AM.

  40. #80

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Pretty easy to see that the top of the neck shaft wasn't planed flat.

    Wtf? Is up with the derailing and crap talk of this thread? Shoot man...I'm not sending my guitars to florian to get reworked....but if I had the cash, I'd do it.

    Super cool project, interesting to see that Gibson is NOT taking the steps you'd expect on their "flagship" guitars.

    More...more.....more. And thank you

Page 2 of 18 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Scroll Down And Click On All Of Our Sponsors' Logos For Their Websites!






i