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  1. #401
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    From my limited knowledge of woodworking, I believe that it may initially lighten in the sun. However, eventually the natural oils in the wood and any added oils will oxidize to almost black. But, I think we're talking about a time period of 50-100 years. Look at antique furniture, like the stuff on antiques roadshow, as an example. Much of that old wood, dark wood is almost black.
    Last edited by RavenTooth; 03-20-17 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #402

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Also would the natural oils from human fingers over 60+ years not darken the wood?

  3. #403
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    This talk of Brazilian rosewood fingerboards and oxidizing......

    ....what we're really talking about is natural weathering and aging of the wood due to moisture, friction, UV light, heat, cold, dirt, microbes, and human skin oils/sweat. Natural weathering and aging of a fingerboard is usually a slow process, but can be accelerated if the guitar is played heavily for many months and years.

    To refer to this process as chemical oxidation is misleading and really not accurate.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
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  4. #404
    Les Paul Forum Member hoss's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Great posts on the fingerboard, thanks guys!

    I was asking, because I once sun faded a guitar for a couple of days in the open window and noticed the fingerboard getting much lighter.
    Treating it with Fret Doctor twice got it dark again.

  5. #405
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    To a certain extent the fretboard of a guitar left outside in the sun is probably lightening because it's drying out. Even a newly cut piece of wood that hasn't been oiled has natural oils in it. This is why oiling it darkened it again.

    Good points about the complexities of aging a fretboard though. My first guitar (Godin G Series) which I bought new in the 90s, learned on and played exclusively for almost 20 years has totally worn out frets and an awesome looking Indian rosewood fretboard. I wish my R9's fretboard looked like that. Give it 20 years.

  6. #406

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    The fretboard is covered during the UV process. The reason the fretboard looks bright is because it hasn't been oiled yet.
    Finally, Florian's tanning bed is getting some use, especially after paying so many euro for it!

    Just Kidding! That's really cool to see how the process is done, thank you very much for sharing!

  7. #407

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenTooth View Post
    From my limited knowledge of woodworking, I believe that it may initially lighten in the sun. However, eventually the natural oils in the wood and any added oils will oxidize to almost black. But, I think we're talking about a time period of 50-100 years. Look at antique furniture, like the stuff on antiques roadshow, as an example. Much of that old wood, dark wood is almost black.
    Marshall1987 gave the complete answer. Here are some examples of even relatively brief aging:

    How Wood Changes Color Over Time

    Color Changing Wood

    Wood & Steel (Far bottom-right of page 7)

  8. #408
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Finally the magic nuclear Bavarian UV process is done!

    As a reminder, this is what we started with:



    This is what we were aiming for: (original Pearly Gates burst)



    And this is the result:



    Couldn't be happier! Florian has killed it! I love this color.
    The sharp shade from the pickguard will be faded down by natural light.

    Next up is sanding and flashcoat

  9. #409
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Looks great

  10. #410
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover


    What's that by the pickguard screw hole?
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  11. #411
    Les Paul Forum Member bigcat's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    The fretboard is covered during the UV process. The reason the fretboard looks bright is because it hasn't been oiled yet.
    UV lights!
    I understand the process but doesn't photooxidation hurt the top?

  12. #412
    Les Paul Forum Member Cav's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Wow! The result is incredible!

  13. #413
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by J T View Post

    What's that by the pickguard screw hole?
    The pickguard got a bit stuck during the UV process.
    Will soon be removed.
    Last edited by Orreman; 03-21-17 at 11:29 AM.

  14. #414
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    The pickguard got a bit stuck during the UV process.
    Will soon be removed.

    OK!

    Looking like it's almost done!

    I'll bet you can't wait to get it back.
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  15. #415
    Les Paul Forum Member DanD's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Kudos to Florian. That's some magic he works!
    "In Heaven all the interesting people are missing."

  16. #416
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    I hope the OP gets a guitar he loves.....but....I have to say I just don't get it.

    The whole process is, to my mind, absolutely nuts.

    Still, that's what makes the world go round and, sincerely, I hope the guitar turns out to be what the OP deserves.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  17. #417
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Bavarian perfection!

    Einfach wunderschön Gitarre
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  18. #418
    Les Paul Forum Member Tarcisioo's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    The pickguard got a bit stuck during the UV process.
    Will soon be removed.
    Best way to relic a guitar is by accidents...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'll have her relic'ed, right?

  19. #419
    Les Paul Forum Member hoss's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarcisioo View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'll have her relic'ed, right?
    Yeah, scrub off all that paint to make it a natural like Kossoff.


  20. #420
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Wow! How much will you age the guitar?
    I wonder how he will give the clear coat that amber and vintage patina
    Will you fade back and sides too?

  21. #421
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Polishing time!





  22. #422
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by P.A.F View Post
    Wow! How much will you age the guitar?
    I wonder how he will give the clear coat that amber and vintage patina
    Will you fade back and sides too?
    The amber is already on. You can see it on the binding.
    We have decided to go for a light aging with a lot of weather checking.
    I want it to look like a well kept '59

  23. #423
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarcisioo View Post
    Best way to relic a guitar is by accidents...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'll have her relic'ed, right?
    Very lightly.

  24. #424
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcat View Post
    UV lights!
    I understand the process but doesn't photooxidation hurt the top?
    Not what I know of. The maple is almost white so it reflects the UV back.

  25. #425
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Silkscreen applied. Now she's officially a Les Paul again

  26. #426
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Some outdoor pictures of the color and finish.





  27. #427
    Les Paul Forum Member hoss's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    I like the "Jäger 59" plate, too!

  28. #428
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by hoss View Post
    I like the "Jäger 59" plate, too!
    Check out the logo on the car

  29. #429
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Check out the authentic finish
    https://youtu.be/tJgF1rmOuS4

  30. #430
    Les Paul Forum Member Billy Porter's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    Polishing time!




    The no-fade areas don't look quite right to me. My Norlin has not faded within the pickup rings (I'll not sully this thread with a pictures though). Were the pickups in-situ during the UV treatment ?

    I also agree with F-Hole on not fully understanding why this is being done but admire the craftmanship and attention to detail we're seeing here. Everyone to their own though
    You’re never alone with a schizophrenic

  31. #431

    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    Finally the magic nuclear Bavarian UV process is done!

    As a reminder, this is what we started with:



    This is what we were aiming for: (original Pearly Gates burst)



    And this is the result:



    Couldn't be happier! Florian has killed it! I love this color.
    The sharp shade from the pickguard will be faded down by natural light.

    Next up is sanding and flashcoat
    My man, I have to say...that is freakin' absolutely, freakin', gorgeous. This has been a controversial project, so thank you very much for allowing us to take a ride along! But I think this is has shaped/shaping up to be an amazing make over.

    In so far as the plug is concerned, it is barely visible and should be covered up nicely by the tailpiece I think.

  32. #432
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by RocknRollShakeUp View Post
    My man, I have to say...that is freakin' absolutely, freakin', gorgeous. This has been a controversial project, so thank you very much for allowing us to take a ride along! But I think this is has shaped/shaping up to be an amazing make over.

    In so far as the plug is concerned, it is barely visible and should be covered up nicely by the tailpiece I think.
    Thank you very much!

    The plug will not be visible at all when the tailpiece comes on. I always top wrap my Les Pauls so the tailpiece will be in the bottom position.

  33. #433
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Frets dressed and the binding rolled.

    Binding before:


    And after:

  34. #434
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    I'll take it!

  35. #435
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Porter View Post
    The no-fade areas don't look quite right to me. My Norlin has not faded within the pickup rings (I'll not sully this thread with a pictures though). Were the pickups in-situ during the UV treatment ?

    I also agree with F-Hole on not fully understanding why this is being done but admire the craftmanship and attention to detail we're seeing here. Everyone to their own though
    You can't compare the Norlin era guitars with a 50's spec guitar. They are two completly different animals. Different kinds of paint, clearcoat etc.
    Last edited by Orreman; 03-23-17 at 08:25 AM.

  36. #436
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Orreman View Post
    So... You're comparing this handcrafted piece of art with a Norlin Les Paul. That's just great! Wow!
    I'd take a '69-74 any day over a TH..but that's just me.

    Yours does look beautiful though.
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  37. #437
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Ford View Post
    I'd take a '69-74 any day over a TH..but that's just me.

    Yours does look beautiful though.
    The guitar's that i miss the most are my Norlins from my stop tail GT - 76 Explorer an many other Les Pauls & ES & Korina guitars ! Lotta NORLIN love here Kris !
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

  38. #438
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Ford View Post
    I'd take a '69-74 any day over a TH..but that's just me.

    Yours does look beautiful though.
    Sorry for the Asshole comment before. Your guitar is probably fantastic

    They are pretty hard to compare though. Totally different builds.

  39. #439
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    Naw, it's all good.

    I just have a soft spot for the ones of my youth, actually extend that date to '76...I love me a maple neck LP! Sustain monsters!

    I like that era because they are better suited for hard and heavy rock and classic metal.
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  40. #440
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

    What is the reason for such a high volume of glue in the reset of the neck joint ? The reason I ask pre TH guitars glue has been such a issue . This volume of glue might be standard with a neck set . Could a high volume of correct glue have the same effect as a lower volume of wrong glue factory neck install ?
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

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