True Historic ´59 Bavarian Makeover

[Orreman]

Shipped my 2015 True Historic to the amazing Florian Jäger for a full makeover last week.
Today he started working on it

I have chosen to go with the Bavarian Makeover 1 and 2.
So the guitar will get these new features:
- Brazilian fretboard with new inlays
- New 59 neck shape with less "shoulders"
- New correct top carve. The TH carve is much flatter than a real 59.
- New pore filler and aniline dye
- Real nitro. Not that plastic weird version that Gibson uses
- Tailpiece moved to the correct location and long iron studs.
- The serial stamped with the correct font


I have chosen to go with a Pearly Gates finish instead of the factory Dirty Lemon .

Also the guitar will be upgraded with these parts:
- DMC aged Pickup rings
- DMC switch knob
- DMC ABR-1
- DMC aluminium tailpiece
- Dave Johnson aged pick guard
- Creamtone Poker chip
- DMC Aged knobs
- Kluson machine heads with DMC buttons

Some of you guys will probably think I´m crazy for doing this to a True Historic guitar.
The thing is that I´ve tried a couple of Florians makeovers and they are on a completely different level than what Gibson CS puts out.

Will post more pictures soon.

The guitar before being shipped:



All parts taken off:

[corpse]

Some of you guys will probably think I´m crazy for doing this to a True Historic guitar.

Yes. I vote yes on that.

[Keefoman]

Just curious: Didn't top carve and neck profile vary on the '59s as they were hand crafted? Not that I think you shouldn't do the makeover if you want to. Everything YOU want to do with either guitar that makes them special to YOU, is applauded by me.

[Tim Plains]

That's cool. It's your money, do as you wish, but why didn't you buy a regular historic to do that to? To pay a premium for (marketing) Gibson's most faithful recreation to date, and then give it a makeover, is sort of like paying twice for the same thing. You pay a premium to say "I have a True Historic" but now it's just a makeover no better than a non-TH makeover.

[Orreman]

That's cool. It's your money, do as you wish, but why didn't you buy a regular historic to do that to? To pay a premium for (marketing) Gibson's most faithful recreation to date, and then give it a makeover, is sort of like paying twice for the same thing. You pay a premium to say "I have a True Historic" but now it's just a makeover no better than a non-TH makeover.

I only paid R8 money for this guitar. I want to see how close I can get it the the real thing.
The are actually big differences between a TH and a regular historic.

Here are some of the TH features:
- Lightweigt ribbon grain mahogny. Hand picked only for TH
- Hide Glue construction all over
- The cutaway is deeper on a TH. (the original bursts had a deeper cutaway)
- Thinner Holly veneer on the headstock.
- Control cavity in the correct position
- Tapered body

[sws1]

- Control cavity in the correct position
- Tapered body

Never heard of these diffs. Can someone explain?

[TM1]

Nice going on having Florian re-do your guitar. If I had a TH I would do the Braz board and the finish, but aren't the plastic parts suppose to be DNA replica's of the originals? I can see putting in a set of ThroBak's or Wizz's and replace the pots with some original Centralabs and some good caps. I would get an ABM Bell Brass stop & ABR-1 and they will make your guitar simply Sing!!!
Why change the plastics?

[J T]

Ya Gibson made a big deal about the TH plastic being EXACT. You are throwing it away?

[Cav]

Great! Can't wait to see the project progress.
I had my R4 refinished by Florian in the Spring last year, can't stop playing it! His job is excellent!

[Orreman]

Ya Gibson made a big deal about the TH plastic being EXACT. You are throwing it away?

Hi, I'm not throwing them away. The say that they are exact but I think the pickup rings are e bit too cream colored and the pick guard is a bit too yellow for my taste. Also all hardware will be aged on this guitar.

[Orreman]

Never heard of these diffs. Can someone explain?

On TH guitars the control cavity is closer to the edge of the guitar, just like it was back in the 50.s
If you look closely on a 50.s burst you can see that the tailpiece is slightly closer to the ABR-1 on the high E side.
This of course differs a bit from guitar to guitar, but most of them are like that.

[J T]

+1 on photos as it goes.

[TM1]

Hi, I'm not throwing them away. The say that they are exact but I think the pickup rings are e bit too cream colored and the pick guard is a bit too yellow for my taste. Also all hardware will be aged on this guitar.

The colour varied back the 50's on plastics. Seems to me, having seen a number of TH's and original Les Pauls that they pretty well nailed the plastics on the new ones. I personally think you're wasting your money on new plastic parts, but hey, if it bothers you that much, go for it. I've seen light colored rings, dark colored rings and all colours in between, same with guards and switch rings. It really comes down to whomever was mixing the CAB chemicals to make the batch/run of parts that day. I believe the company who made the rings was Hughes Plastics. They've been out of business a number of years/decades.

[Orreman]

Now the original fretboard is off:

[Bluuzman]

The guitar before being shipped:

Looks awesome. Which differences in sound did you overserve after the makeover?

[Orreman]

Looks awesome. Which differences in sound did you overserve after the makeover?

The makeover is happening right now, so I don´t know yet. I will post a "before and after" video when it's done in about a month.

[asapmaz]

I must admit; this one's a head scratcher.

[ff1337]

That's cool. It's your money, do as you wish, but why didn't you buy a regular historic to do that to? To pay a premium for (marketing) Gibson's most faithful recreation to date, and then give it a makeover, is sort of like paying twice for the same thing. You pay a premium to say "I have a True Historic" but now it's just a makeover no better than a non-TH makeover.

+1

[Davidos]

Beautiful Guitar... Good Luck!

I just PM/emailed you about buying the TH plastics...
Thx!

[sapi]

Enjoy the process bro and let's see the results! I'm sure it will be stunning!

[Cream Fan]

On TH guitars the control cavity is closer to the edge of the guitar, just like it was back in the 50.s
If you look closely on a 50.s burst you can see that the tailpiece is slightly closer to the ABR-1 on the high E side.
This of course differs a bit from guitar to guitar, but most of them are like that.

You know, out of curiosity, I compared my '03 Historic Makeover to the back cover image on "The Beauty of The Burst" and for the life of me I could not see any difference in the positioning of the cavity. Both looked to be exactly the same distance from the edge of the guitar.

[Stow]

Cant wait to see it when its all done, Il buy your TH Knobs if your selling?

[Orreman]

You know, out of curiosity, I compared my '03 Historic Makeover to the back cover image on "The Beauty of The Burst" and for the life of me I could not see any difference in the positioning of the cavity. Both looked to be exactly the same distance from the edge of the guitar.

The difference isn´t that big. They have changed the position and shape of the cavity to better match the originals.

Here are some pictures:

This one is from The Music Zoo´s comparison page:


This is the back of a 2016 Standard Historic:


And this is the back of a 2016 True Historic:


As you can see, the lower left corner of the cavity plate is closer to the edge of the guitar. Also the shape is a little bit different.

[Cream Fan]

I definitely do see it. The only thing I can conclude is that they had the cavity right in 2003 and later changed it. Now, they've changed it back. There's no way Historic Makeovers could have moved it. LOL!

[Fan of LP]

Keep those pics coming, please! I'd love to see the progress. Hope at the end you get the guitar you're looking for!

[Rich R]

You should have him fix the cutaway, while you're at it

[Orreman]

You should have him fix the cutaway, while you're at it

It´s a True Historic, so the cutaway should be accurate.

[thin sissy]

I haven't really kept up with the whole " shipping rosewood" problem these last years. Was this the guitar bought from the UK? And now it's in Germany for a makeover. Have you had any problems with customs?

[Orreman]

I haven't really kept up with the whole " shipping rosewood" problem these last years. Was this the guitar bought from the UK? And now it's in Germany for a makeover. Have you had any problems with customs?

It was bought here in Sweden and the shipped to Germany for the makeover. No problems to ship within the EU. But when it's done with it's new Brazilian board it needs a CITES certificate.

[Pellman73]

Man it looked like a Nicky in its original form.

This story kind of bums me out. I feel a little sick reading it, but like the other guy said its your money-- but to take that guitar and do all this stuff to it seems kind of harsh. Taking a standard and doing it makes more sense to me.

Something about seeing that beautiful guitar all taken apart on that workbench with all the instruments of torture behind it reminds me of that movie Hostel or Saw or something. Except in this version its guitars being tortured rather than people.

I hope in the end you get what you want!

[The Shifter]

Man it looked like a Nicky in its original form.

This story kind of bums me out. I feel a little sick reading it, but like the other guy said its your money-- but to take that guitar and do all this stuff to it seems kind of harsh. Taking a standard and doing it makes more sense to me.

Something about seeing that beautiful guitar all taken apart on that workbench with all the instruments of torture behind it reminds me of that movie Hostel or Saw or something. Except in this version its guitars being tortured rather than people.

I hope in the end you get what you want!

I hope you're not projecting from past experiences!

It's a brand new, production line guitar from a run of thousands. Made by people and machines in a massive corporate facility. Also, a USA Standard is not really a good candidate for this kind of work. Weight relieved body, different headstock pitch, etc.

If someone has the dough and is so inclined, seems like a fun project to me. Seems to me that Florian puts a lot of love, heart and craftsmanship into what he does. Maybe the owner can afford it and is simply just enjoying the fun of the process. It may or may not be a "better" guitar, but I'd be willing to bet that Florian doesn't just fuck up a perfectly good Historic, take the customer's money and laugh all the way to the bank. From what I've seen/read the results are mostly pretty sweet.

I mean, put a Floyd on a real 'Burst, scallop the fretboard, throw in some active pickups and rout it for an on board preamp and special tone circuitry? Yeah, probably not cool.

Please understand, I get it that some people think this whole process is a foolish endeavor. If that's not your thing, I respect that. I just think these are fun projects, and again, if you have the funds a brand new, mass produced guitar is the perfect platform.

Blah, blah, blah. Sorry to be so long winded.

So, to orreman I say, enjoy the process, I hope you enjoy the final product and thanks for sharing.

[RobertD]

If you do decide to sell some of the plastic/hardware from your TH please let me know.
I just bought a new 2014 Reissue I could put it on.
Thanks

[Tom Wittrock]

Florian is a Meister!

[thin sissy]

It was bought here in Sweden and the shipped to Germany for the makeover. No problems to ship within the EU. But when it's done with it's new Brazilian board it needs a CITES certificate.

Alright, thanks Will Florian provide the certificate when the guitar is done?

Keep us posted with pics!

[Nick-O]

Shine on to the OP! Have a blast. It sounds like a great adventure to me.
After reading all the tight *** comments, I would do it all the more! Nothing better than upsetting the masses. Its yours, do whatever it takes to make you play it. Joy is in the house.
Looking forward to seeing more updates.

[Pellman73]

I hope you're not projecting from past experiences!

It's a brand new, production line guitar from a run of thousands. Made by people and machines in a massive corporate facility. Also, a USA Standard is not really a good candidate for this kind of work. Weight relieved body, different headstock pitch, etc.

If someone has the dough and is so inclined, seems like a fun project to me. Seems to me that Florian puts a lot of love, heart and craftsmanship into what he does. Maybe the owner can afford it and is simply just enjoying the fun of the process. It may or may not be a "better" guitar, but I'd be willing to bet that Florian doesn't just fuck up a perfectly good Historic, take the customer's money and laugh all the way to the bank. From what I've seen/read the results are mostly pretty sweet.

I mean, put a Floyd on a real 'Burst, scallop the fretboard, throw in some active pickups and rout it for an on board preamp and special tone circuitry? Yeah, probably not cool.

Please understand, I get it that some people think this whole process is a foolish endeavor. If that's not your thing, I respect that. I just think these are fun projects, and again, if you have the funds a brand new, mass produced guitar is the perfect platform.

Blah, blah, blah. Sorry to be so long winded.

So, to orreman I say, enjoy the process, I hope you enjoy the final product and thanks for sharing.

As I'm learning more about this Florian fella I'm starting to understand a little more about this project and I"m intrigued to see how it turns out.

This discussion, like so many on this and so many other fora (what is forums plural?) is subject to opinion and opinion alone. no right answer. its just thoughts and feelings and i certainly respect the OP's wanting to do this and it sounds like he's going to take something great and make it even better.

I take your point about this not working with modern Standards but I guess I was thinking of using an older one -- of course the quality of the woods and certainly many of the other details would be wrong so I hear you there.

Personally it seemed to me (can I make the beginning of that statement any more toothless?) that the True Historic was gibson's best offering-- not just something made from machines by the thousands in a big corporate facility (this sentence connotes a rather orwellian like product that has no real mojo and is a "dime a dozen"-- which I'd think many people who spent the (relative to a standard) big bucks own one would take issue with it? That gibson did not put love and heart and craftsmanship into their True Historic line? Again, opinions, feelings... no right answer.

My sense was they were made with a bit more attention to detail, care, and pride than the average run of the mill Les Paul. the original guitar is gorgeous, and for 99% of all people who own a les paul or even WISH they could own one-- I'd wager, would represent something of a dream guitar. Thus the thought of taking a guitar like that and giving it a major overhaul is for someone LIKE ME (and only me. I"m not casting judgment) kind of sad. But this also, I'm sure, belies my ignorance about the skill of the master craftsman doing the project, what the end product is going to be like, and now that I"m learning a little more, feel less sad!

When I said I hoped he gets what he wants, I really was not being facetious.

[The Shifter]

As I'm learning more about this Florian fella I'm starting to understand a little more about this project and I"m intrigued to see how it turns out.

This discussion, like so many on this and so many other fora (what is forums plural?) is subject to opinion and opinion alone. no right answer. its just thoughts and feelings and i certainly respect the OP's wanting to do this and it sounds like he's going to take something great and make it even better.

I take your point about this not working with modern Standards but I guess I was thinking of using an older one -- of course the quality of the woods and certainly many of the other details would be wrong so I hear you there.

Personally it seemed to me (can I make the beginning of that statement any more toothless?) that the True Historic was gibson's best offering-- not just something made from machines by the thousands in a big corporate facility (this sentence connotes a rather orwellian like product that has no real mojo and is a "dime a dozen"-- which I'd think many people who spent the (relative to a standard) big bucks own one would take issue with it? That gibson did not put love and heart and craftsmanship into their True Historic line? Again, opinions, feelings... no right answer.

My sense was they were made with a bit more attention to detail, care, and pride than the average run of the mill Les Paul. the original guitar is gorgeous, and for 99% of all people who own a les paul or even WISH they could own one-- I'd wager, would represent something of a dream guitar. Thus the thought of taking a guitar like that and giving it a major overhaul is for someone LIKE ME (and only me. I"m not casting judgment) kind of sad. But this also, I'm sure, belies my ignorance about the skill of the master craftsman doing the project, what the end product is going to be like, and now that I"m learning a little more, feel less sad!

When I said I hoped he gets what he wants, I really was not being facetious.

Dig that. And I didn't mean to imply that anyone who owns any kind of Historic bought a dime a dozen guitar. I may have gone a bit overboard with that description. I love the Historic line. I have 4 of them, and they are all from earlier years that "have stuff wrong" compared to a vintage LP. Having grown up with Norlin LPs and 60 Classics with figured tops, I try and keep in perspective how good we have it in terms of buying a great LP thanks to the Historic line. But I'm getting OT.

Another big factor with Florian(or HM, et. al.)compared to a new Historic is the whole "relic" issue. And that is one entirely different can of worms!!!

[Pellman73]

Dig that. And I didn't mean to imply that anyone who owns any kind of Historic bought a dime a dozen guitar. I may have gone a bit overboard with that description. I love the Historic line. I have 4 of them, and they are all from earlier years that "have stuff wrong" compared to a vintage LP. Having grown up with Norlin LPs and 60 Classics with figured tops, I try and keep in perspective how good we have it in terms of buying a great LP thanks to the Historic line. But I'm getting OT.

Another big factor with Florian(or HM, et. al.)compared to a new Historic is the whole "relic" issue. And that is one entirely different can of worms!!!

with you man

one thing about this whole Lester thing there's always a deeper rabbit hole it seems!

and the odd thing is I'm becoming kind of a relic guy. My only two les pauls right now are a 2003 Duane and a CC #15 (add to that two heavy reliced custom shop strats (one is a masterbuilt w a Brazilian fingerboard in the local shop that I've 'bought' but need to find the money for it )

one huge added bonus I find to the reliced guitars is if you scratch or ding it-- you can't tell !!!

[majorminor]

The difference isn´t that big. They have changed the position and shape of the cavity to better match the originals.

Here are some pictures:

This one is from The Music Zoo´s comparison page:


This is the back of a 2016 Standard Historic:


And this is the back of a 2016 True Historic:


As you can see, the lower left corner of the cavity plate is closer to the edge of the guitar. Also the shape is a little bit different.

Looking at two of my instruments, both my 2003 Classic and my 2004 CR4 both appear to have the "correct" shape back plate, and the colour of the back of my Custom is very close to that of the 2016 True Historic.

Sometimes, I really just don't get Gibson. So they went out and made the 2016 Standard Historic deliberately wrong?

[Orreman]

New pictures from Florian today.

Now he has replaced the plastic plugs that Gibson uses to align the fretboard to the neck with mahogny ones.

Before:



After: