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Blown away by a '62 Barney Kessel... gives me this theory

AlienVintage

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Sep 10, 2015
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334
Long story short: I recently bought an early '62 Barney Kessel (regular version), with original PAFs.

I was curious. I figured: what the heck, I'd give it a try. The PAFs are probably worth almost as much as I paid for the whole guitar (yes, even though the neck one has the narrow spacing), which I figured was good insurance.

I expected the guitar to sound and play sorta like an ES-175 (which I have owned).

Boy, was I ever surprised by this '62 Barney Kessel.

I never imagined the guitar would be as "335ish" as it is.

Despite being fully hollow, it can truly rock, if you want it to. And that is not an exaggeration - you could easily use this guitar for rock and blues.

Got me thinking about the combination of features on the Barney Kessel: PAFs, laminated spruce top, maple sides and back, fully hollow construction, pointy cutaways.

Which leads me to this theory: I think the Barney Kessel is a sibling of the Gibson doublenecks that debuted just a couple years earlier:

915BA9B0-D306-4F93-86D1-A38B3C4119BA_zps5l27xshm.jpg


In fact, per this 1998 VG article, it looks like the Barney Kessel design (prototype) actually originated in 1960, and thus it was an already-designed model that they assigned as the Barney Kessel model later in 1961, after the fact:

https://www.vintageguitar.com/1801/gibsons-experimental/

We have read that jazz guitarist Barney Kessel never liked his own model. Now I can see why - in my opinion, and after trying it myself, crazy as it might seem, this model is not as strictly "jazzy" as I always thought it would be.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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14,537
I love those. The BK Custom had an all curly maple body and neck, huge headstock with an inlayed quarter note and my favorite BOW TIE INLAY on the fingerboard.
Gibson was making a bold statement with these.
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,030
Never made this connection, but now that I see these models side by side, yeah, there certainly are some similarities.
 

Stephens

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Dec 30, 2001
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438
I love those BK guitars! They can totally rock! My father in law owned one for awhile (he should've kept it or I should have bought it from him). I just remember plugging that guitar into my AC-30, was a perfect match!
 

AlienVintage

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Sep 10, 2015
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334
I never made the connection, either - not until yesterday.

I was so surprised by how the guitar played and sounded, plugged in. You could seriously get some 335ish tones. Much more semi-crunch ability than I had ever expected.

I was searching the forums for "laminated spruce," and then as I was reading about the '58-62 doublenecks, it sort of "clicked."

Obviously, there are some differences (25 1/2 scale length, floating bridge, F holes...), but the early spruce-top ('61-64ish) Barney Kessel regulars are very much like a '58-62 doubleneck, in "single" neck configuration, with a body exactly 1 inch thicker (2 7/8). The neck join looks pretty similar. Even the overall styling seems similar.

That old VG article about the '60 "prototype" (pre-) Barney Kessel narrows the design gap between the doublenecks and the Barney Kessels even further - the models were probably designed within just a couple years of each other at most.
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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20,854
My friend Steve Wilcox has rocked one of those with Candye Cane (R.I.P.) for many years. His BK is featured well in this video. Happy birthday last week to Steve, and R.I.P. Bassist Greg Willis (original Iron Butterfly) two weeks ago.

 

AlienVintage

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Sep 10, 2015
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334
That is really awesome to see one in action like that!
All the other videos I've ever seen are almost 100% jazzy.

Mine has two nickel PAFs with the PAF stickers. Another interesting little fact which people might already know: I believe that the early ('61/62) Barney Kessel "regulars" are the only guitars that came with the nickel narrow-space neck PAF (all the other narrow-space PAFs were gold, installed in guitars with gold hardware).

Here are some photos of mine that I just took:

16C85EC1-D6E5-4A21-BD91-0C8D46EB65F0_zps7dvodhtl.jpg


EA9C2212-0C45-45CC-86C9-627E5DE93EB2_zpsk0oih1d7.jpg


823A09A2-DCC1-4554-ABF9-8A549AFAE15D_zpsebjqfloy.jpg


395155F0-87AB-4398-82C5-B983E542CED1_zps6x0qaevx.jpg


55B08202-DEC2-42EC-B3D2-C873E5EF7ECA_zpsr4gdcivr.jpg


011560DE-80B8-454E-ABB8-86838FFE9EA3_zpssboy8aos.jpg
 

slimdave

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Oct 6, 2012
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893
Pat Smear used to play one sometimes with the Foo Fighters. And they rock quite hard.
 

brandtkronholm

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Dec 3, 2006
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...Got me thinking about the combination of features on the Barney Kessel: PAFs, laminated spruce top, maple sides and back, fully hollow construction, pointy cutaways.

Which leads me to this theory: I think the Barney Kessel is a sibling of the Gibson doublenecks that debuted just a couple years earlier...

It has been my (limited) understanding that the EDS instruments that you're comparing your newly acquired (and awesome!) BK built differently. The EDS has a carved spruce top - that (as I understand things) is flat on the inside. It isn't a laminate spruce top. Also, the pots in the EDS instruments are completely different than usual and unique to these instruments - but I have no idea what they actually are.

I've heard that at one point George Gruhn made a single-necked guitar that was pretty close to the EDS build in theory. Some of the PRS spruce-topped guitars are similar but not identical.

I hope Eric Ernest weighs in here and sets the record straight. (...and corrects any misinformation I may be spreading...)

Your new BK is really cool!
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
I had a `62 BK-Reg. for years. It had Pat.# stickers but those pickups sounded amazing! Neck was way too thin for my liking. But did have the narrow spaced neck pickup and the bridge magnet was flipped for that OOP sound. They came stock with the magnet flipped from Kalamazoo! The catalouge says "Special magnetic field built into the bridge pickup"..
 
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AlienVintage

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Sep 10, 2015
Messages
334
I tried to do a little better side-by-side comparison - what do you guys think? :hmm

Obviously not exactly twins, but could pass for brother-sister, I think :)

065FF78E-A893-415D-99F3-119EEFD6643E_zpscwhplzy2.jpg


03BF6D5E-9D6A-444C-BFC9-A61E24127498_zps5lm3t1hd.jpg
 

AlienVintage

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Sep 10, 2015
Messages
334
Thanks!
Yes - the pattern is really beautiful on this Brazilian board.
One of the nice things about these guitars: you will find that they will probably have very little wear on the fretboard, I'm guessing due to the style of playing over the years (lack of string bending etc.).
 

JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
588
And that is not an exaggeration - you could easily use this guitar for rock and blues.

Uh... no shit? :) This guy virtually invented the genre of electric blues (granted, this model didn't exist until later in his career, but...).

tbone-walker-performs-on-stage-at-the-american-folk-blues-festival-at-picture-id85023820
 

Stephens

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Dec 30, 2001
Messages
438
I had a `62 BK-Reg. for years. It had Pat.# stickers but those pickups sounded amazing! Neck was way too thin for my liking. But did have the narrow spaced neck pickup and the bridge magnet was flipped for that OOP sound. They came stock with the magnet flipped from Kalamazoo! The catalouge says "Special magnetic field built into the bridge pickup"..

The out of phase sound on the BK model was simply amazing!!!
 

AlienVintage

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Sep 10, 2015
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334
I figured I would put this out there:
If anyone has a 61 or 62 Barney Kessel with original PAFs, I'd love to have it.
I've got an all original early '65 SG Standard (warranty card still in the case compartment) that I'd trade ;)
No joke - I am desperate to find another :)
 

abalonevintage

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Dec 31, 2002
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3,186
I hope Eric Ernest weighs in here and sets the record straight. (...and corrects any misinformation I may be spreading...)

I've owned both guitars and any similarity is merely coincidental.

There are sonically and construction wise, miles apart.

The Trini Lopez Deluxe is the BK's esthetic sister.


d6d8c850-14a2-48d3-95f2-bd04f0e2efac.JPG
 
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