Wrong pots in 2016 Les Paul Traditional

Eric Carlson · Nov 7, 2016

Hey, first time posting here. I have a 2016 LP Traditional that after taking the cavity cover off, I found that both of the volume pots are 250k linear taper. One reads 271k the other 262k. The resistance was measured after taking the leads off of the pots measured from outside leg to outside leg. The tone pots are both 500k audio taper (504k and 501k measured the same way). I called Gibson and they confirmed that the two volume pots were incorrect and agreed to send me two of the correct pots I could install myself. This got me thinking, could there be other LP's out there with the incorrect pots? I'm not knocking Gibson in any way here, I love this guitar and don't think I'd ever sell it. Anyway, I just thought I'd throw this out here. Maybe this has happened before? I can't help but think someone is assembling the pots, caps etc. to the plate with parts out of a bin figuring the parts are what they are supposed to be.

jbzoso2002 · Nov 7, 2016

Looks like its the perfect time for an upgrade.

RS Gutarworks Super Pots for both vol and audio taper for tone.

50's wiring, push back wire and .022 paper in oil caps.

It will sound better!

Jimmy

Don · Nov 7, 2016

Are you sure those aren't 300k linear taper pots that are on the lower side of the spec? Gibson used them in Les Pauls for many years.
What is Gibson sending? What are the volume pots in a 2016 Traditional supposed to be?

I like the above suggestion. I do that in almost everything!

B Ingram · Nov 7, 2016

Eric Carlson said:
... could there be other LP's out there with the incorrect pots? ...

Could be.

Eric Carlson said:
... I can't help but think someone is assembling the pots, caps etc. to the plate with parts out of a bin figuring the parts are what they are supposed to be.

Close.

From my dated experience (I left Gibson in 2000 to join the military), what happens is guitars are received from the Buffing department in a couple large racks of 20 guitars each. The model is usually marked in one of the pickup cavities, and the Builders retrieve a plastic bin from the Parts Cage which has the wiring harness, pots, pickups, tuners and other hardware. The builders just assemble the guitars using whatever the Parts Cage provides.

Major mess-ups (P-90's given for a humbucker guitar, or a dummy coil provided for a guitar obviously not routed for one) are easy to spot. But something small like a wrong value pot might not be obvious to the builder. They are on a daily output quota, and don't spend time measuring each part to verify it's what belongs on that model.

Major assemblies (wiring harness components, Varitone switches, p.c. board- or plate-mounted pots, etc.) are received already soldered/pre-assembled by the Parts Cage. So if a new employee messes up by grabbing a wrong value pot, the problem might not be noticed.

I don't recall receiving any wrong parts for the thousands of Gibsons I assembled at the plant, but I can understand how it could happen on at least a limited basis. Folks all up & down the line have to be extremely efficient and going all-out to get their tasks done to meet their daily production quotas.

Eric Carlson · Nov 7, 2016

[h=5]jbzoso2002 That's what I was thinking before I pulled the back cover off. I've got all the parts except for the super pots. Thought I'd use the stock ones and see if I liked it.[/h]The pots are according to the Gibson website, supposed to be 500k non linear for both tone and volume. They could be 300k's reading low but seem to be closer to 250k (261k and 274k). They are stamped Gibson on the back with numbers on the sides. Both volume pots have the same numbers 440-70034 1534. Both tone pots have the same numbers as well 440-71079 1513. Maybe one of you guys knows if that translates into something.
Like I said I'm not knocking Gibson here, it's a great guitar that as many of you guys seem to echo, could be even better with the 50's wiring.
I just thought I'd mention what I found so that anyone with a 2016 LPT who read this might want to take a look at their pots. I know I would if I just spent that kind of money!
Maybe someone could explain the differences between the stock 500k's (once I get them) and the super pots.
Just thought I'd add that my controls were assembled on 11/05/15 with the initials A.R. hand written on the front of the plate. Not knocking A.R., i"m sure he or her just installed what was given them.

Eric

Big Al · Nov 8, 2016

Eric, just throwing this out there for consideration. Seymour Duncan and I had a cool discussion about pot values back in the 70's in which I expressed my fondness for the bright scooped mid, tight powerful bass responce of my vintage PAF's, much like a flat pole Tele.

My proble was the bridge pickup was too spikey and not as sweet as my Tele. He told me he used 250K pots for PAF and similar pickups. I use a 500K volume pot on the neck but a 250-300K pot for the bridge spot. I prefer the 500K value for high output, increased mids, reduced trebles pickups.

Wilko · Nov 8, 2016

What Big Al Said (nice to see you posting:salude)

While many prefer the brighter sound of the 500k, there is a huge bonus to be had in fatness by using the lower values (250, 300) by leaving the tone more flat without the big spike in the high end that higher values gives.

Seymour Duncan website has (had?) a tech section with a graph that showed the curves of various values from 250 to 1M.

Eric Carlson · Nov 9, 2016

Well there's more to think about! I started by thinking I would change to the 50's wiring and I still will. It sounds like the 500k audio is the one for the neck pickup and I guess I'll have to think about either the higher resistance original or put in a 500k for the bridge. Is the primary difference between the stock Gibson pot and a Super pot the curve? I mean 60/40, 70/30, 80/20 etc. Or, are there other genuine advantages to something other than the stock Gibson? I appreciate the comments/opinions.
Eric

Mars Hall · Nov 9, 2016

jbzoso2002 said:
Looks like its the perfect time for an upgrade.

RS Gutarworks Super Pots for both vol and audio taper for tone.

50's wiring, push back wire and .022 paper in oil caps.

It will sound better!

Jimmy

I couldn't agree more...

Dave P · Nov 11, 2016

Allan Holdsworth uses 250k pots with the lower output PAF-style pickups he uses. It's all about what you want to hear.

I've had good luck with the Dimarzio branded CTS pots, and the Mojotone CTS pots. They both have nice tapers and don't cost a lot.

Eric Carlson · Nov 12, 2016

Thanks, as it is Gibson said it would be 7-10 days before I get the replacement correct ones from them. Any idea how the Gibson ones compare with the likes of the Mojotones? Maybe I'll order a pair from Mojotones and compare the curves with the Gibsons when they show up. Have to break out the old Simpson meter for that.

toxpert · Nov 12, 2016

Maybe I missed reading this...
Is there a problem with how the guitar sounds and responds with the factory setup ?

With all the aftermarket products available and media hype about this and that..it's easy to go down the path of changing out parts because you can.
:dude:

Eric Carlson · Nov 15, 2016

toxpert, That's a good question.
I know three other guys with basically the same guitar. I've played the other three guitars thru my rig, one of them on a couple of occasions all at the same venue. The others were similar and although I liked the tone of mine, I think of preferred the others. This is what got me thinking... it can get me in trouble sometimes:hmm. After probably too much reading I thought I would open up the back and maybe wire it 50's style. That's when I found the wrong value pots for the volume controls. The rest is written above.

Eric Carlson · Dec 1, 2016

Well I got the pots and did the 50's wiring and new caps.
i can tell you it's a totally different guitar! I'm really happy with it. The guitar drives the OCD pedal differently now along with the delay. Roll off the volume a little and it cleans up real nice too. The neck pickup seemed darker but after setting the amp up to make it sound good and adjusting the height and the pole pieces it sounds great. I do have a question, would replacing the volume pots with linear pots make the transition from clean to dirty a little more gradual? Right now it happens between 8-10. Or, do I just buy better pots with a different more gradual taper? There are probably lots of things I could do here, you'll have to excuse my noobness when it comes to Les Pauls. I do really like this guitar now... Thanks.

jbzoso2002 · Dec 1, 2016

Eric Carlson said:
Well I got the pots and did the 50's wiring and new caps.
i can tell you it's a totally different guitar! I'm really happy with it. The guitar drives the OCD pedal differently now along with the delay. Roll off the volume a little and it cleans up real nice too. The neck pickup seemed darker but after setting the amp up to make it sound good and adjusting the height and the pole pieces it sounds great. I do have a question, would replacing the volume pots with linear pots make the transition from clean to dirty a little more gradual? Right now it happens between 8-10. Or, do I just buy better pots with a different more gradual taper? There are probably lots of things I could do here, you'll have to excuse my noobness when it comes to Les Pauls. I do really like this guitar now... Thanks.

:jim

Jimmy:2cool

jalexquijano · Dec 21, 2018

Eric Carlson said:
[h=5]jbzoso2002 That's what I was thinking before I pulled the back cover off. I've got all the parts except for the super pots. Thought I'd use the stock ones and see if I liked it.[/h]The pots are according to the Gibson website, supposed to be 500k non linear for both tone and volume. They could be 300k's reading low but seem to be closer to 250k (261k and 274k). They are stamped Gibson on the back with numbers on the sides. Both volume pots have the same numbers 440-70034 1534. Both tone pots have the same numbers as well 440-71079 1513. Maybe one of you guys knows if that translates into something.

Like I said I'm not knocking Gibson here, it's a great guitar that as many of you guys seem to echo, could be even better with the 50's wiring.
I just thought I'd mention what I found so that anyone with a 2016 LPT who read this might want to take a look at their pots. I know I would if I just spent that kind of money!
Maybe someone could explain the differences between the stock 500k's (once I get them) and the super pots.
Just thought I'd add that my controls were assembled on 11/05/15 with the initials A.R. hand written on the front of the plate. Not knocking A.R., i"m sure he or her just installed what was given them.

Eric

Im buying a 2016 les paul traditional in mint conditions from reverb.com. i hope the 4 pots are 500k and not 300k as my 2013 model which came with 300k. Any way of testing the pots without removing the stock wiring and messing the stock finish?

Zentar · Dec 22, 2018

jalexquijano said:
Im buying a 2016 les paul traditional in mint conditions from reverb.com. i hope the 4 pots are 500k and not 300k as my 2013 model which came with 300k. Any way of testing the pots without removing the stock wiring and messing the stock finish?

Usually only the Studios used 300k pots.

Wilko · Dec 22, 2018

jalexquijano said:
Im buying a 2016 les paul traditional in mint conditions from reverb.com. i hope the 4 pots are 500k and not 300k as my 2013 model which came with 300k. Any way of testing the pots without removing the stock wiring and messing the stock finish?

Play it and see how it sounds. IME, most players like the fatter "warmer" sound that 300k can give.

Wrong pots in 2016 Les Paul Traditional

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