The Fender Forum
NEW! LPF Facebook Page
NEW! LPF Instagram Page
Merchandise & Donations
NEW! Burst Serial Log Home Page
LPF Homesite
Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 160 of 370
  1. #121
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Rock View Post
    I thought the general consensus over the years was that EC's amp likely had Drake transformers. No? Still very much up for debate?
    I'd be surprised if the transformers were all Drake. March '66 recording date, likely very late '65 amp.....Series I BB's from that period tend to have RS OT.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  2. #122
    Les Paul Forum Member Jeff West's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    855

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Nominal 4K a-a reflected load on the primary was stock for the inspirational 5F6-A.

  3. #123
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    At the end of the Long White Cloud
    Posts
    7,361

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    I very much doubt it, these early RS Deluxe transformers are extremely robust, and are wound like no other.

    There's another thread on this amp forum that talks to the minutiae, and very much worth reading.

    That's good to know.

  4. #124
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    At the end of the Long White Cloud
    Posts
    7,361

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Well, I was talking to one of the UK's best repair guys last week, shooting the breeze as you do. He was a player back in the day, lots of cool memories. Anyway, we started talking about an old Marshall he sold me some time ago, and we get onto Clapton's infamous amp.

    This is where is gets interesting. I told him that we'd probably never find out what it was, and he pipes up with......."it's a JTM45 chassis in a 2x12 cabinet, we chatted about it at a gig with maybe 20 people there, Lewisham, 1966".

    On the basis of this disclosure, why on earth did Marshall present the 1962 combo as EC's amp?
    The reissues started in 1989............

  5. #125
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldtop0 View Post
    On the basis of this disclosure, why on earth did Marshall present the 1962 combo as EC's amp?
    The reissues started in 1989............
    Strictly, I don't think they did. From memory, they presented it as the "Beano" amp. Like all their reissues, they have little in common with the original amps, much in the same was as Gibson spend years reissuing Les Paul guitars that bore no relation to the originals. It's all about sales, not accuracy.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  6. #126
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    19,649

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    There's no magical disclosure that renders Marshall's amp wrong. There are enough people who seem to think that it was jtm45 tremolo amp stuffed into a 2x12. Marshall was already making a 2 x 12 combo at the time. Was Clapton's some custom job?

  7. #127
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    There's no magical disclosure that renders Marshall's amp wrong. There are enough people who seem to think that it was jtm45 tremolo amp stuffed into a 2x12. Marshall was already making a 2 x 12 combo at the time. Was Clapton's some custom job?
    Marshall's amp, variously, have all been different to the originals....from transformers to capacitor and resistor values, through construction and into cosmetics.

    You won't find an earlier thin lip combo than Clapton's.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  8. #128
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    At the end of the Long White Cloud
    Posts
    7,361

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Strictly, I don't think they did. From memory, they presented it as the "Beano" amp. Like all their reissues, they have little in common with the original amps, much in the same was as Gibson spend years reissuing Les Paul guitars that bore no relation to the originals. It's all about sales, not accuracy.
    Yes John you're quite right about that , it was produced as the Bluesbreaker combo and still is.

  9. #129

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    I'd be surprised if the transformers were all Drake. March '66 recording date, likely very late '65 amp.....Series I BB's from that period tend to have RS OT.
    But regular JTM45s had all transitioned to Drakes by then, hadn't they? If this was indeed a JTM45 chassis in a custom cab, then I would expect it to be like same era JTM45 non-trem heads. Whether it was the selector-on-transformer 784-60somethin(?) or the 784-103 is another question.

  10. #130
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by shakti View Post
    But regular JTM45s had all transitioned to Drakes by then, hadn't they? If this was indeed a JTM45 chassis in a custom cab, then I would expect it to be like same era JTM45 non-trem heads. Whether it was the selector-on-transformer 784-60somethin(?) or the 784-103 is another question.
    There were still a few RS around, but mostly 784-74 by that point.

    It's all idle speculation, he may have had a head that he liked and already owned and had Marshall put it into a cab.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  11. #131
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    19,649

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    A JTM45 control panel cutout is just over 16" wide. This picture shows overlays of both the 16 3/8" wide cutout, and the JTM45 tremolo cutout width.


  12. #132
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Parallax error will render 3/4 of an inch meaningless in such comparisons.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  13. #133
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    19,649

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    but there is a pretty clear image of what is more likely. A difference of nearly 4 inches.

  14. #134
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Blighty.
    Posts
    5,909

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    but there is a pretty clear image of what is more likely. A difference of nearly 4 inches.
    Let me see if I've got this right Wilko? The overlayed tremelo amp cutout is some 4 inches wider than Eric's amp in the background, even allowing for perspective issues; does that mean I can safely draw the conclusion that Eric's amp is not a tremelo chassis...and adding some weight to the theory that it's a jtm45 chassis in a "non-stock" sized cab.

    It's not a challenge, but the obvious conclusions I'm jumping to, seem just too obvious...even for me.

    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  15. #135
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    19,649

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.


  16. #136
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,746

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Here's the article on Bluesbreakers from G & B:


  17. #137
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    It's a curious article, based on pics alone because the text is very hard to read.

    Why would anybody write an article about an amp, and illustrate it with pictures of an entirely different amp? It's like an article about ES175's illustrated with pictures of an SG.....both Gibson, both with PAF's....so let's use that.

    The amp shown is odd.....replaced mains transformer, no tube seat/cushion, and drivers likely from a column given the orientation of the stickers......

    It has the same validity as Phil Harris' article in G&B bemoaning fake 'bursts. A master-class in irony.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  18. #138
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    211

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    John,

    Did you ever have that follow up conversation with your friend regarding Eric's amp ?

  19. #139
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    John,

    Did you ever have that follow up conversation with your friend regarding Eric's amp ?
    No, and I saw him on Wednesday too. I'll drop him a line next week for a chat and report.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  20. #140
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,746

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    The article is from G & B March 2013 issue. I know they have it online as I got this from the app on my iPad. The good thing about that is you can make it bigger on their app.. makes reading it much easier.
    Cheers!

  21. #141

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    It's a curious article, based on pics alone because the text is very hard to read. ...
    I squinted pretty good to read the article, but could only reliably make out the inset "Why Was Clapton's Amplifier So Different?" and text on that page.

    It smelled of "fairy-shit" to me (a mysterious combination of fairy dust & bullshit). There were several things which start at a conclusion (how the amp sounded on record) and asserted pseudo-tech reasons that lead to the conclusions... except the pseudo-tech is described to do things in ways which don't really happen.

    The bit about KT66's "loading the driver" is completely bogus as a cause for distortion in the driver/phase inverter. I may be mistaken, but I thought EL34's came along later than the amp discussed, so why do they muddy the waters talking about them? It is true the KT66 requires more drive signal than EL34s for the same output (because the EL34 has higher Gm), but the 5881 has even lower Gm than KT66s and is therefore even "harder to drive"... Which means what exactly?

    I also saw reference on the same page of "trick-matching the primary" which is only a "trick" to folks who don't know how transformers work. It's claimed to make the OT or output tubes sound different... More fairy-shit.

  22. #142
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,746

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Ingram View Post
    I squinted pretty good to read the article, but could only reliably make out the inset "Why Was Clapton's Amplifier So Different?" and text on that page.

    It smelled of "fairy-shit" to me (a mysterious combination of fairy dust & bullshit). There were several things which start at a conclusion (how the amp sounded on record) and asserted pseudo-tech reasons that lead to the conclusions... except the pseudo-tech is described to do things in ways which don't really happen.

    The bit about KT66's "loading the driver" is completely bogus as a cause for distortion in the driver/phase inverter. I may be mistaken, but I thought EL34's came along later than the amp discussed, so why do they muddy the waters talking about them? It is true the KT66 requires more drive signal than EL34s for the same output (because the EL34 has higher Gm), but the 5881 has even lower Gm than KT66s and is therefore even "harder to drive"... Which means what exactly?

    I also saw reference on the same page of "trick-matching the primary" which is only a "trick" to folks who don't know how transformers work. It's claimed to make the OT or output tubes sound different... More fairy-shit.
    Yeah, I was fairly skeptical about that. I tried it just out of curiosity with my Mercury Magnetics RS clone.. Didn't really hear much difference, if any with my amp/speakers... I know my amp with KT66's vs. EL34's or even original 5881's, the KT66's have more headroom and doesn't breakup as soon.. Fairydust indeed..

  23. #143

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    Yeah, I was fairly skeptical about that. I tried it just out of curiosity with my Mercury Magnetics RS clone.. Didn't really hear much difference, if any with my amp/speakers... I know my amp with KT66's vs. EL34's or even original 5881's, the KT66's have more headroom and doesn't breakup as soon.. Fairydust indeed..
    So the truth in relation the output transformer is that with a given output tube, moving the reflected primary impedance to be higher/lower changes the distortion spectrum to favor more even or odd harmonics. You can see this on that graph on the last page of this 6L6 data sheet. It shows when you hold everything else constant, lower loads lead to more 2nd harmonic distortion while higher loads lead to more 3rd harmonic distortion. There's a point where 2nd harmonic starts increasing again as the load impedance continues to rise, and there's a point where THD may be minimized.

    But push-pull output stages cancel even harmonic distortion produced in the output tubes, so the amount of 3rd harmonic is really what dominates. So when you hear a sonic difference due to a change in primary impedance, you're really just hearing a change in the distortion spectrum produced (same reasoning applies for why amps with a pentode/triode mode switch sound darker in triode mode: there is less odd harmonic distortion until the output tube is severely overdriven, and so the bright edge to the sound is gone).

    But it is true that EL34's (which are true pentodes) sound different from the aligned-grid or beam-power tubes in the KT66 and 6L6 class. I just wish people wouldn't layer "magic" on top of what could be pretty straight-forward stuff...

  24. #144
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cumming, GA
    Posts
    3,649

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    That is something- I have never really heard the tonal impact of differences in electrical interaction before- very good description.

  25. #145
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,746

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Interesting stuff on those sheets. I'll have to pull my M.O.Valve sheets on KT-66's and see how they compare to each other.
    Cheers!

    BTW, John...? Did you ever chat with your friend on Eric's amp?

  26. #146
    Les Paul Forum Member becks bolero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,810

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    this is an interesting thread!

    based on Wilko's overlays, this pic of EC in the studio appears to have a jtm45 trem chassis, to me

    even though the amp is on an angle, you can make out that the top cutouts are closer to the trem dimension than the non-trem



    "First off, nobody cares if you know how to play scales. Nobody gives a shit if you have good technique or not. It's whether you have feelings that you want to express with music, that's what counts, really." -Neil Young

  27. #147
    Les Paul Forum Member jrock1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    435

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Certainly looks wide enough of a cut out to me to be the trem version..again just so much conjecture...

    In terms of why it sounds so, well, amazing on the Beano album...please consider:
    1. His fingers and attack
    2. Mic used
    3. Board used (including any effects on the board, such as reverb/echo, which you can hear on at least a couple of songs)

    These all have an impact on the tone we're hearIng from the Beano album, not to mention the singular impact of that specific Les Paul.

    Of course, the live clips from the era also sound fantastic, but that I believe is due to the fact that it is EC playing and there would be no way to determine from those clips whether it was a trem or non trem version of the JTM45 (sorry for stating the obvious in this last thought).

  28. #148
    Les Paul Forum Member becks bolero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,810

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    last time I heard EC play a Les Paul, he sounded quite a bit like the Beano album. I preferred it much more than his boosted strat tones

    what do we have to do, in order to get Clapton to record a new album using a Les Paul and a cranked Marshall?

    He could call it "back to the beginning" or something

    hell, I'm sure people here could hook him up with the real gear, easily enough! if he doesn't have it already
    "First off, nobody cares if you know how to play scales. Nobody gives a shit if you have good technique or not. It's whether you have feelings that you want to express with music, that's what counts, really." -Neil Young

  29. #149
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    All good, but the only bloke I know who's seen the amp in person, and talked to EC about it........said it's definitely a standard JTM45. He knew his amps too, having loaned Richie Blackmore the first Marshall he ever played through in 67.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  30. #150
    Les Paul Forum Member Flying Fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Monterey Bay
    Posts
    624

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    I'd imagine the handle could potentially be used to help figure out the width of the cab no - if those handles were all the same length?

  31. #151
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,746

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    The strings on his Les Paul would also be a factor. Did he use Nickel or Monel wrapped strings. Weren't too many choices back then and god know that Ernie Ball certainly weren't available in the U.K. in 1965/66. So he had to have used a Round Core string(Hex didn't become popular until the early `70's and even then it was used as a way to have less reject strings/cheaper production costs. Same with Nickel Plated Steel) so the wrap needs to have been either Nickel or Monel wire. Guitar Strings in England was a very small selection. You had Rotosound, Cathedral, Selmer(which were made in Germany by Pyramid), Gibson and maybe a couple others..
    F-Hole, do you remember what was around?
    I know I can get various sounds from different makes of strings.. Some great some not so great..I like Monel wraped round cores on my Les Paul's as it has that old Sixties tone and Nickel wrap on my Semi's..
    Cheers!

  32. #152
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    F-Hole, do you remember what was around?
    Dude, I was three months old when all this went down.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  33. #153
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Blighty.
    Posts
    5,909

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Dude, I was three months old when all this went down.
    As alibi's go, that's a pretty sound one....
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  34. #154
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    9,448

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    ...
    Last edited by renderit; 10-11-16 at 07:25 AM.

  35. #155
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    19,649

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    The amp was probably about the same age!

  36. #156
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,746

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Dude, I was three months old when all this went down.
    Sorry mate, I have no idea of anyone's age on here. I just kinda guessed that since you're interested in this stuff that we'd be around the same age +/- 10 years or so.. I'm 64 so this stuff is right in my range. I remember when I heard the Beano LP for the first time in the late Sixties..

  37. #157
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,970

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    Sorry mate......
    No need for that.....

    I'll ask my guy. He was playing the London same scene and gigs as EC and Peter Green.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  38. #158
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    19,649

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    It's interesting that you met someone who thinks that EC's amp was a regular JTM45.

    Of course, over 25 years ago there were enough people who though it was tremolo amp for Marshall to actually tool-up and start producing the "bluesbreaker" combo with a tremolo chassis.

  39. #159
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    At the end of the Long White Cloud
    Posts
    7,361

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    It's interesting that you met someone who thinks that EC's amp was a regular JTM45.

    Of course, over 25 years ago there were enough people who though it was tremolo amp for Marshall to actually tool-up and start producing the "bluesbreaker" combo with a tremolo chassis.

    Well yes, could be a popular misconception.

  40. #160
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    on the middle & bridge pickup of my L.P. Custom
    Posts
    7,746

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldtop0 View Post
    Well yes, could be a popular misconception.
    Yes, it could as Marshall kept no records or serial number data in the Sixties. I asked someone who was high enough in the chain to know and he basically said that there are no sales records or serial number logs, etc from the early days. That basically started in around 1969-ish..and even that era is sketchy..

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Scroll Down And Click On All Of Our Sponsors' Logos For Their Websites!






i