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  1. #81
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    More silly "proof" that EC's amp was 30" x 24" - same size as a Style I.


  2. #82
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.


  3. #83
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    The amp from the studio shot matches exactly to the live shot:

    this pic shows the proportion of the panels match without adjusting the angle of the amp.



    This pic shows the amp angle adjusted to match position and shown transparent to highlight the match:


    And background info that support the 2x12 configuration is that Clapton was moving from a Vox AC-30 and wanted that configuration for the JTM-45 that he heard at Marshall.
    Last edited by Wilko; 08-09-16 at 01:12 PM.

  4. #84
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Nice work Wilko! Can you superimpose the Style I combo from this pic (credit Bobby V) to confirm it matches the dimensions of EC's amp?


  5. #85
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Rock View Post
    Nice work Wilko! Can you superimpose the Style I combo from this pic (credit Bobby V) to confirm it matches the dimensions of EC's amp?
    Without a reference dimension, no, I can't confirm any dimensions.

    In the photos I used, I had two amps that are the same. For a style one, I don't know if the baffle is the same size, or if it's smaller due to the outer box rim...

    I can see if the grill and panel are similar, but for smaller dimensions he rate of error increases.

  6. #86
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    Without a reference dimension, no, I can't confirm any dimensions.

    In the photos I used, I had two amps that are the same. For a style one, I don't know if the baffle is the same size, or if it's smaller due to the outer box rim...

    I can see if the grill and panel are similar, but for smaller dimensions he rate of error increases.
    Got it. I was referring to overall dimensions...my guess is that EC's amp was 30" x 24", which theoretically matches the overall dimensions of the Style I combo (also 30" x 24"). If you superimposed the Style I combo from Bobby V's pic over EC's amp in the original photo, my guess is that they'd "match" in overall dimensions (or at least be very close in the Height / Width ratio). But I can't really try it myself since I don't own Photoshop or decent photo editing software.

  7. #87
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    This is nuts, my geometry master will be turning in his grave.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  8. #88
    Les Paul Forum Member 66SuperTremMKIV's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    I'm sure Eric would remember if it was 2x12 or 4x10 having had the amp custom made for him and using it many times, loading it in and out of
    his car.

    I've had tons of gear over the years and remember them all.

    Unless he's memory is totally fried ?......... He might still have it stored among his vast collection and is keeping shtum

  9. #89
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by 66SuperTremMKIV View Post
    I'm sure Eric would remember if it was 2x12 or 4x10 having had the amp custom made for him and using it many times, loading it in and out of
    his car.

    I've had tons of gear over the years and remember them all.

    Unless he's memory is totally fried ?......... He might still have it stored among his vast collection and is keeping shtum

    Know of a block logo JTM45 head he's got but that's about it as regards any Marshall gear from back in the day.

  10. #90
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Rock View Post
    Got it. I was referring to overall dimensions...my guess is that EC's amp was 30" x 24", which theoretically matches the overall dimensions of the Style I combo (also 30" x 24"). If you superimposed the Style I combo from Bobby V's pic over EC's amp in the original photo, my guess is that they'd "match" in overall dimensions (or at least be very close in the Height / Width ratio). But I can't really try it myself since I don't own Photoshop or decent photo editing software.
    Measuring the Bobby V photo gets me 30" x 24" for the style one knowing that a small box head is 26" wide and the 18 watter is 28" wide.
    Last edited by Wilko; 08-09-16 at 10:40 PM.

  11. #91
    Les Paul Forum Member Stow's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Great thread!! Keep it coming, so interesting!!

  12. #92
    Les Paul Forum Member kerryboy's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stow View Post
    Great thread!! Keep it coming, so interesting!!
    Well it started of interesting but discussing if its 28" or 29.4" wide is getting a bit boring IMO.

    I still can't believe that this was a custom order to fit in his car. In all the photos shown it looks a big beast to me.

  13. #93
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by kerryboy View Post
    Well it started of interesting but discussing if its 28" or 29.4" wide is getting a bit boring IMO.

    I still can't believe that this was a custom order to fit in his car. In all the photos shown it looks a big beast to me.



    Apparently, at the time he must have been into 'cars' with big trunks…. er, I mean boots...

  14. #94
    Les Paul Forum Member Beano Geno's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Let's not forget that EC's first car was a 1938 Cadillac Fleetwood....a huge car with a huge boot/trunk. I believe that's what he owned during his Bluesbreaker days.

  15. #95
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beano Geno View Post
    Let's not forget that EC's first car was a 1938 Cadillac Fleetwood....a huge car with a huge boot/trunk. I believe that's what he owned during his Bluesbreaker days.

    But unfortunately not big enough for a stack

  16. #96

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Rock View Post
    Nice work Wilko! Can you superimpose the Style I combo from this pic (credit Bobby V) to confirm it matches the dimensions of EC's amp?

    FUCK! I HAD ERIC'S AMP AND DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT!!!!!

  17. #97
    Les Paul Forum Member Beano Geno's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldtop0 View Post
    But unfortunately not big enough for a stack
    But plenty big for a JTM 45 combo! 😀

  18. #98

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real MC View Post
    Somewhere on YT is a british blues documentary with film footage of Clapton with the BB amp. It revealed that the amp did indeed have a JTM45 Tremolo chassis - clearly showed eight knobs.
    It was this, but no longer available. My bad it was Marshall amps not british blues

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF46cFxmn1M

  19. #99

    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Viewable here:
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3d...OOK_OG_HTML5=1

    If you mean the section at about 26:45 where they talk about Clapton's combo, then the footage is a mock-up of vintage footage of Clapton, along with new, "made-to-look-old" footage of a bone stock 1962 reissue combo. It tells us nothing about Clapton's actual amp.

  20. #100
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by shakti View Post
    Viewable here:
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3d...OOK_OG_HTML5=1

    If you mean the section at about 26:45 where they talk about Clapton's combo, then the footage is a mock-up of vintage footage of Clapton, along with new, "made-to-look-old" footage of a bone stock 1962 reissue combo. It tells us nothing about Clapton's actual amp.

    Hadn't seen that video......thanks for posting

    Yep the only mention is that it was a 2x12 combo.

  21. #101
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Won't open anymore....

  22. #102
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    cool!

  23. #103
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Well, I was talking to one of the UK's best repair guys last week, shooting the breeze as you do. He was a player back in the day, lots of cool memories. Anyway, we started talking about an old Marshall he sold me some time ago, and we get onto Clapton's infamous amp.

    This is where is gets interesting. I told him that we'd probably never find out what it was, and he pipes up with......."it's a JTM45 chassis in a 2x12 cabinet, we chatted about it at a gig with maybe 20 people there, Lewisham, 1966".

    This chap was an early Marshall user (per the amp he sold me), and remembers specifically discussing his rig. They both played 'bursts at the time.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  24. #104
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Well there you go John
    Bingo.............err beano

  25. #105
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Yep. That's strong...


    Good sleuthing John.

    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  26. #106
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Well, I was talking to one of the UK's best repair guys last week, shooting the breeze as you do. He was a player back in the day, lots of cool memories. Anyway, we started talking about an old Marshall he sold me some time ago, and we get onto Clapton's infamous amp.

    This is where is gets interesting. I told him that we'd probably never find out what it was, and he pipes up with......."it's a JTM45 chassis in a 2x12 cabinet, we chatted about it at a gig with maybe 20 people there, Lewisham, 1966".

    This chap was an early Marshall user (per the amp he sold me), and remembers specifically discussing his rig. They both played 'bursts at the time.
    So.. Not a Tremolo chassis?
    Cheers!

  27. #107
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    So.. Not a Tremolo chassis?
    It would appear not.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  28. #108
    Les Paul Forum Member Jeff West's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Great! Anything about the speakers, one wonders?

  29. #109
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff West View Post
    Great! Anything about the speakers, one wonders?
    I'm seeing him next week, so will get more details.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  30. #110
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    I'm seeing him next week, so will get more details.
    That is really great! Thanks for sharing! Are you familiar with the article that "Guitar & Bass" magazine did a couple years back on BB combos? It had an interesting theory on EC's amp using an RS output with "Reflective Matching" in the output section to achieve his sound..I'll find out which issues it is as I have it on my ipad.
    Cheers!

  31. #111
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    That is really great! Thanks for sharing! Are you familiar with the article that "Guitar & Bass" magazine did a couple years back on BB combos? It had an interesting theory on EC's amp using an RS output with "Reflective Matching" in the output section to achieve his sound..I'll find out which issues it is as I have it on my ipad.
    Cheers!

    What is Reflective Matching?

  32. #112
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldtop0 View Post
    What is Reflective Matching?
    I think TM1's referring to an article by Dave Petersen, where he suggests that Clapton's amp was wired 16 ohms output into 8 ohms at the cabinet. He suggests that this mismatch is the basis for Clapton's sound, as primary load was halved to around 3.3k, allowing the amp to increase output to around 45W with lower bias current. The "negative", he argues, was less bass (because of lower primary inductance) and more distortion, particularly with KT66's which have an "individual sound" under these conditions.

    He reached this conclusion from looking at photos of old Series 1 Bluesbreaker wiring and extrapolating. I think it's a bit of a long bow to draw, but a guy I know wired a genuine BB this way and says the difference was night and day, and that it nailed the Beano sound.

    I'm not convinced, but I guess it may be true.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  33. #113
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    My understanding is that's exactly what kills OT's- right?
    The old story "man, my amp sounded the best I ever heard it, right before it blew up."

  34. #114
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    No, running into a lower impedance generally is most harmful to tubes. Running into a higher impedance sets the stage for potential flyback spikes and arcing, which can puncture OT insulation. Most OT are built tough enough to handle a bit of mismatch, however since guitar amps are typically driven into oblivion, if an OT is going to fail it typically manifests in a guitar amp as opposed to a hi-fi amp.

    I don't think there is any way of knowing how Claptons amp was wired but I can indeed verify from personal experimentation that running a RS style OT into a 1-step-lower mismatched load does indeed make for a very audible difference. It will with a Drake style OT also.

  35. #115
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    I'd like to see that article if it's available somewhere.

    I don't think you'll ever get 45W out of a pair of KT66's. Pentode connected, Class AB1 pretty much 30W max. Clean that is. Pretty hard to quantify what the output would be under gross distortion.

    Looks from the datasheet that the output power will fall and distortion will rise for a pair running below about 5K5 a-a.

    Not disputing that the distortion will increase/change in nature in a good way and that could be what we're hearing!

  36. #116
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    8k tap on the RS o/p tranny primary, 16 ohm tap on the secondary and an 8 ohm speaker load if I remember right. It was in the G & B magazine in March 2013 issue. I tried it on mine and it pretty well nailed the sound using my 2002 R-0, Historic Makeovers Les Paul. I have ThroBak pickups in it and Monel strings (Gibson called them "Mona Steel"). the only one making these for electric guitars are Pyramid in Germany. Martin has a really stiff acoustic/Tony Rice set with Monel but they used a Hex core wire which was not used in 1965/66. should be a silver plated German Steel round core/plains, not that awful tin plated Swedish steel junk!

  37. #117
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    So effectively 4K a-a primary. My JTM 45 head is wired 6K6 at the moment and runs into a 16 ohm 2x12 cab, on it's 16 ohm winding. Don, if you've got a pdf or scan of the G&B article I'd love to read it.

  38. #118
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by efk View Post
    No, running into a lower impedance generally is most harmful to tubes. Running into a higher impedance sets the stage for potential flyback spikes and arcing, which can puncture OT insulation. Most OT are built tough enough to handle a bit of mismatch, however since guitar amps are typically driven into oblivion, if an OT is going to fail it typically manifests in a guitar amp as opposed to a hi-fi amp.

    I don't think there is any way of knowing how Claptons amp was wired but I can indeed verify from personal experimentation that running a RS style OT into a 1-step-lower mismatched load does indeed make for a very audible difference. It will with a Drake style OT also.

    So maybe Eric's 1962 combo blew up! Losing it's OT.
    I've had it happen in my amps.

  39. #119
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldtop0 View Post
    So maybe Eric's 1962 combo blew up! Losing it's OT.
    I very much doubt it, these early RS Deluxe transformers are extremely robust, and are wound like no other.

    There's another thread on this amp forum that talks to the minutiae, and very much worth reading.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  40. #120
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    Re: Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    I very much doubt it, these early RS Deluxe transformers are extremely robust, and are wound like no other.
    I thought the general consensus over the years was that EC's amp likely had Drake transformers. No? Still very much up for debate?

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