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  1. #1
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    Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Charlie asked me to start a series of "Amp Of The Month" threads, so here goes.

    As ever, luck plays a big part in finding old gear. In this case, I was at home in London last week with Joe B (PBUH), Roy and Clay, gear geeking as you do. My computer pinged to tell me an email had arrived. A forum member, Rob L, had dropped me a message telling to urgently call a small music shop that had just got a walk-in from an old boy, an early Marshall. Needless to say, conversation stopped while I made the call. Pictures arrived, and it looked very promising. So, a deal was done during that five minute chat. I drove the 3 hours on Saturday, arriving in rain of monsoonal proportions. A quick coffee and a bacon sandwich to fortify me while waiting for the shop to open, screwdrivers et al in hand, the anticipation killing me.

    The amp and cabs turned out to be better than I had hoped, and the "old boy" turned out the be the original owner. They're very early 1965, and were purchased new as a set directly from Marshall. When ordering them, the owner asked Marshall to install a 8/15 ohm tap on the back panel, which they duly did. I've never seen another like this. The original owner said that he would sometimes use the head as a true PA, so needed the flexibility.

    The OT is the early version of the RS Deluxe, and this will be one of the very last amps with that iron. It shares some hardware with the earlier metal badge amps, with particular tells that are unique, although totally correct for that period. The board is untouched, with caps dating to 1964.

    The cabs are equally clean. It's very unusual to see gold block logos on white front cabs. These cabs are untouched, and house T0652's with the early silver Hanwell factory stickers (pre gold sticker era). The cones are original. The input sockets are the recessed metal cup type, as used on the metal badge cabs.

    It's been a really good month on the vintage Marshall front, and I'm still pinching myself that I managed to get to this before anybody else.

    Thanks again Rob.



    Note the 8/15 ohm slide switch on the back, factor original per original owner's request.






    A photo of the ohm tap from the inside. Original solder joints, and original spec wire all support the original owner's claim, which I had doubted at first.










    Original fuse.




    This is the earliest inspection tag I've seen, by quite some way.






    Last edited by F-Hole; 07-11-16 at 04:05 AM.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  2. #2
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    The geeks among us will understand the significance of the long retaining staple.



    50 years of exposure........






    These Hanwell stickers are just so cool.......








    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Fabulous write up John.

    School's in.....

    If your stock of male Bulgins is short, I've got one here you'd be more than welcome to.

    Thanks again for taking this feature on.

    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  4. #4

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Well, that turned out well ! What a find !

    I'm glad to be of service good sir.

    I did contemplate buying it myself, however having just moved house, recovering from surgery and being currently bereft of gainful employment, I thought better of it and gave you the tip.

    It's a lot better than I expected to be honest, in fact, it's as nice as anyone could dare to hope.

    Congratulations John.

    The impedance selector might actually be unique, wow.

    Cheers

    Rob
    -----------------
    Rob Livesey
    Manchester, UK

  5. #5

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Last edited by Kristine; 03-11-17 at 01:58 AM.

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member CoyotesGator's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    As I see it, I serve the beat. Groove is everything.

    Big Al

  7. #7
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Congratulations, that's a fantastic find. Does it sound as good as it looks?

    Couple of geek questions if I may.... just out of shot in your pic of the board - as it was used for PA are both channels the same or does one have the volume pot bright cap and hf bypass cap on the mix resistor?

    You've taken the output valves out - presumably GEC 66's?

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member Luke Gibson's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Man, it doesn't get much better! Congratulations John, you are on a roll!
    Lost in the middle of a Brazillian rosewood
    fingerboard......

    http://s97.photobucket.com/home/LukeGibson69

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member Stow's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Fantastic find! Amazing.. wow

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator CDaughtry's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Thanks for undertaking the "Amp of the month" chores. I can't think of anyone more qualified. And what a way to start!!!

  11. #11
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Congratulations on another great amp, John. It found its way to the sanctuary for long lost, wayward Marshalls. Thanks for taking on this new thread and sharing your vast knowledge!

  12. #12

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    That is about the coolest amp and gear story I've read! Congrats on a major find, I know you've been looking for one of these! And from the original owner...drool!

    I've built a clone of this exact type of amp, right down to the smooth tolex and Clapton knobs. While I am not going to pretend it can touch an original, it might just be the best sounding Marshall clone I've played. I also built mine with PA specs except a 100pF across bright channel volume, and I am not missing any treble. It sounds glorious.

    It is extremely interesting to see the factory original impedance switch! I had been struggling with this quite a bit; I only have a cab with 8 ohm 20-watters (67 restored pinstripe with non-original speakers) but the amp never sounded exactly right at 8 ohms because the negative feedback is dependent on the impedance setting. It has less negative feedback in the phase inverter at 8 ohm than at 16 ohm, and the JTM45 sound *is* a high primary impedance (8k in this case) with lots of negative feedback IMHO. So after all this while I've stuck with the amp set for 16 ohm and playing it through a later cab. I finally found a '66 pinstripe cab I am restoring and will have set of 16 ohm speakers for that one, although possibly a mix of T0652s and T1221s.
    But seeing this factory original switch has me thinking...would be cool to implement a similar switch in mine.

    Oh, BTW, my clone amp is still missing a handle...have got a long brown MG handle as used on Vox amps, but would love to find a similar short brown handle as seen on this amp if anyone has got one.

    I'll shut up now and let the talk about this particular amp go on. One of the coolest I've seen!

  13. #13

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    BTW, is that not a red RS indicator light? Or do my eyes deceive me?

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by shakti View Post
    BTW, is that not a red RS indicator light? Or do my eyes deceive me?
    Certainly looks like it from the photos, but it's actually amber.

    I'm at the "self harm" end of the electronics knowledge spectrum, so I can't comment on the construction of the ohm tap. Some educated friends tell me, however, this it shouldn't work on an RS transformer......so I'm taking it to a geek friend who will figure out what's actually going on. I'll report. back. It's quite a mystery.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    The geeks among us will understand the significance of the long retaining staple.





    Would I be correct in assuming that the later pinstripes used small staples?

    I'll be the silly bugger to ask that question .... how does it sound?
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  16. #16
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    Would I be correct in assuming that the later pinstripes used small staples?

    I'll be the silly bugger to ask that question .... how does it sound?
    Yes, the early stuff (metal badge and early block logo) heads and cabs used the longer staples, while the mid-period block logo onwards into pinstripe used the short staples. The fakers very rarely get this correct. Below is a photo of the pinstripe era staples, from another block logo head.




    I've only played it through a custom cab thus far, and it sounds great. I'm trying to figure out the wiring in the cabs, as they're wired series to put out 30 ohms.....so need to make sure all is correct before rigging it up fully as a set.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Thank you kindly mate.

    I'm sure some necromancer will be along shortly to aid you with the black magic...I mean....wiring in the cabs.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  18. #18

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Certainly looks like it from the photos, but it's actually amber.

    I'm at the "self harm" end of the electronics knowledge spectrum, so I can't comment on the construction of the ohm tap. Some educated friends tell me, however, this it shouldn't work on an RS transformer......so I'm taking it to a geek friend who will figure out what's actually going on. I'll report. back. It's quite a mystery.
    Apparently it *is* possible to set it up for switching, I know others have done it with their clones using RS Deluxe repro transformers. But I am not sure if it is possible to make the negative feedback independent of the impedance setting. I can't really make out how the switch is set up from the photos, I'd have to see the turrets on the OT very clearly to decipher it, and even then I'd be scratching my head, so any info from your friend would be very helpful.
    Simlarly, I am curious what primary impedance setting the OT uses. The RS Deluxe had multiple primary impedance taps. Later JTM45 OTs were hardwired for 8k, but the RS can be set for 6.6k as well. I greatly prefer it at 8k with KT66s though. But the turrets are concealed by the preamp board.

  19. #19

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Yes, the early stuff (metal badge and early block logo) heads and cabs used the longer staples, while the mid-period block logo onwards into pinstripe used the short staples. The fakers very rarely get this correct. Below is a photo of the pinstripe era staples, from another block logo head.




    I've only played it through a custom cab thus far, and it sounds great. I'm trying to figure out the wiring in the cabs, as they're wired series to put out 30 ohms.....so need to make sure all is correct before rigging it up fully as a set.
    Your speaker jacks are wired in parallell, so if you plug in both cabs with the amp set for 15 ohm you will be good to go.

  20. #20
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    I've only played it through a custom cab thus far, and it sounds great. I'm trying to figure out the wiring in the cabs, as they're wired series to put out 30 ohms.....so need to make sure all is correct before rigging it up fully as a set.
    I was given an original RS Deluxe OT and built a JTM 45 around it, but wanted to have it 8/15 ohm switchable - it can be done! Looks like they've got it right in this one.

    The RS OT is not, unlike more modern transformers, tapped for 8/15 or equipped with separate windings. What it has is three separate secondaries - one at 6 ohm, two at 4 ohm, brought out to 3 pairs of solder posts - visible in the top left corner of the photo showing the board. They've strapped it as per normal 15 (actually 14) ohm wiring, and presented it on the black and blue wires, but also brought out one extra point - the red wire.

    The switch is a DPDT with both halves strapped together - so an SPST (common trick with slide switches as they can be unreliable) and gives you either the 6 ohm and both 4 ohm secondaries in series = 14 ohm, or the two 4 ohm windings in series for 8 ohm.

    A second blue wire from the switch takes the wiper off to the output jack. The purple wire is the feedback tap to the Presence pot which is from the 14 ohm combined output.

    My busy-day-at-work addled brain is telling me that possibly the phase will be reversed 8 ohm relative to 14 ohm. I used a DPDT switch to achieve the same result but preserve the absolute phase. Not entirely sure it matters!

    So Marshall got it right - you've got an RS Deluxe equipped JTM 45 with 8/14 ohm switchable output!

    If your cabs are 30 ohm I suspect (and the photo doesn't quite show it) the output jacks on the amp are wired in parallel so the two cabs together gives you 15 Ohms. Why the original owner wanted an 8 ohm switchable option is an interesting question.


    Hope the above helps.

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member Beano Geno's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    VERY cool...thanks for sharing this!

  22. #22

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by springhead View Post
    I was given an original RS Deluxe OT and built a JTM 45 around it, but wanted to have it 8/15 ohm switchable - it can be done! Looks like they've got it right in this one.

    The RS OT is not, unlike more modern transformers, tapped for 8/15 or equipped with separate windings. What it has is three separate secondaries - one at 6 ohm, two at 4 ohm, brought out to 3 pairs of solder posts - visible in the top left corner of the photo showing the board. They've strapped it as per normal 15 (actually 14) ohm wiring, and presented it on the black and blue wires, but also brought out one extra point - the red wire.

    The switch is a DPDT with both halves strapped together - so an SPST (common trick with slide switches as they can be unreliable) and gives you either the 6 ohm and both 4 ohm secondaries in series = 14 ohm, or the two 4 ohm windings in series for 8 ohm.

    A second blue wire from the switch takes the wiper off to the output jack. The purple wire is the feedback tap to the Presence pot which is from the 14 ohm combined output.

    My busy-day-at-work addled brain is telling me that possibly the phase will be reversed 8 ohm relative to 14 ohm. I used a DPDT switch to achieve the same result but preserve the absolute phase. Not entirely sure it matters!

    So Marshall got it right - you've got an RS Deluxe equipped JTM 45 with 8/14 ohm switchable output!

    If your cabs are 30 ohm I suspect (and the photo doesn't quite show it) the output jacks on the amp are wired in parallel so the two cabs together gives you 15 Ohms. Why the original owner wanted an 8 ohm switchable option is an interesting question.


    Hope the above helps.
    That is extremely helpful for me as well, thank you!

  23. #23
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by shakti View Post
    That is extremely helpful for me as well, thank you!
    You're welcome. I'm sitting here drawing coils and switches. This arrangement will flip the absolute phase when the impedance is changed but does preserve the feedback from the full 14 ohm setting. Might try it on mine as it's currently in bits here.

  24. #24
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Springhead, I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful post. Sincere thanks......

    I'll try to take some more photos tomorrow and post them. I've been talking with tech friends about this one, and it has most of them thrown.

    Great to have you here, please stick around.

    Quote Originally Posted by springhead View Post
    So Marshall got it right - you've got an RS Deluxe equipped JTM 45 with 8/14 ohm switchable output!
    It's just beginning to sink in, doubt there's another.
    Last edited by F-Hole; 07-11-16 at 04:12 PM.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  25. #25
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    You're welcome, glad to have helped. And I'm not going anywhere - I want to see some more photo's!

  26. #26
    Les Paul Forum Member Stoj's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Killer Score John - Congrats

    Guitars:
    2015 Gibson True Historic 1960 Les Paul Reissue
    2014 Gibson Custom Shop 1960 Les Paul Reissue
    2014 Gibson Custom Shop Rich Robinson '63 ES 335
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    Amp:
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  27. #27
    Les Paul Forum Member Red Baron's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Wow John, fantastic rare find, congrats mate!

  28. #28

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Head spinning , John and Springhead on the wiring ohm nuances.

    I really don't know how this stuff works, but can appreciate those who do !

    Love it,

  29. #29
    Les Paul Forum Member Progear's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Thanx for sharing ..
    Music for me.

  30. #30

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    ... I was at home in London last week with Joe B (PBUH) ...
    So Joe B has attained Prophet status?!? I think that was overlooked due to the sheer awesomeness of your new amp!

  31. #31
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Whoa hold the horses........... that's something else and with the unique 18 watt you recently got........

    Thanks for doing amp of the month........this is real drool material

    John the grille cloth on the speakers, is that what's called vynair or is it a lighter pinstripe?

  32. #32
    Les Paul Forum Member MM1959's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    John, Congrats on a very exciting score! Fantastic story and pictures.

    I have learned a lot from you over the years, so I know the “Amp Of The Month” will be another terrific education!


    Major props to Rob.


    Last edited by MM1959; 07-11-16 at 10:26 PM.

  33. #33

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by springhead View Post
    You're welcome. I'm sitting here drawing coils and switches. This arrangement will flip the absolute phase when the impedance is changed but does preserve the feedback from the full 14 ohm setting. Might try it on mine as it's currently in bits here.
    Just so I get this exactly right; the turrets on the OT secondaries are wired as they would be for 16 (14) ohm operation, with the black and blue wires being the "common" and 16 ohm wires respectively. Then there's an additional red wire which runs from the lower right hand turret (as viewed in the photo), which can be thought of as the 8 ohm wire/tap, is that correct? So theoretically you could use a standard impedance selector and use the black wire as the common, the blue wire as the 16 ohm tap and the red wire as the 8 ohm tap, right? Absolute phase reversal is a minor drawback, but not really critical unless you are using it simultaneously with another amp.

  34. #34
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Shakti, there's a parallel thread running here.

    http://www.marshallforum.com/index.p...ing-set.91144/

    We're getting to the point where it's above my pay-grade. I'm anything but an amp tech, but I do have a spare Deluxe OT and will test resistance per the suggestion on the other thread.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  35. #35
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    So in 14ohm mode all three windings - 6,4,4 are in series. You can see the links on the right hand two pairs of lugs. The red wire is on the junction of the 6 ohm and one of the 4 ohm windings. So they are just switching between 4+4+6 or 4+4. The negative feedback remains on the top end of the 6 ohm winding, and always 'sees' the three windings in series.

    On the RS data sheet in 8 ohm configuration they show the two 4 ohm windings in parallel for 2 ohms, then this is in series with the 6 ohm winding. So all three windings are still in play, compared to Marshall's method which is only loading the two 4's. I'm trying to decide if that's an issue. The windings would have to be rated to handle the increased power, compared to the data sheet method which spreads the load across all 3. Other than that the correct load will be refelected to the primary so all is well there. I guess as the original owner asked for an 8 ohm option it has been happily used in that mode in its long life time!

    The alternative is to use a DPDT switch and replicate the two RS 8/15 ohm options, at the expense of the feedback also moving. On my build I made the feedback variable so can compensate.

    I'll have a chat on another forum with some transformer brains.

  36. #36
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Shakti, there's a parallel thread running here.

    http://www.marshallforum.com/index.p...ing-set.91144/

    We're getting to the point where it's above my pay-grade. I'm anything but an amp tech, but I do have a spare Deluxe OT and will test resistance per the suggestion on the other thread.

    Interesting discussion over there! I'll try and chip in later, thanks.

  37. #37

    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Last edited by Kristine; 03-11-17 at 01:57 AM.

  38. #38
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    I've registered and replied over there, see what he says. The impedance ratio is indeed the square of the turns ratio, but I don't get why he's referring to them as 4 or 1 ohm windings. Maybe I'm being dim! As my amp is mostly in bits I might resort to stripping all the secondary wiring off and getting a sig-gen/scope on there. Got to get back to my day job first!

  39. #39
    Les Paul Forum Member kerryboy's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    WTF – windings, lugs, red wire, taps, series, parallel, data sheets, loads, primary, DPDT

    Personally I just plug them in turn them on and play through them.

    For goodness sake man, how does it sound, that’s what we want to know.

  40. #40
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Amp Of The Month (1): 1965 JTM45 Matched Set.

    Quote Originally Posted by kerryboy View Post
    WTF – windings, lugs, red wire, taps, series, parallel, data sheets, loads, primary, DPDT

    Personally I just plug them in turn them on and play through them.

    For goodness sake man, how does it sound, that’s what we want to know.
    If you don't get the technicals sorted out with vintage gear before you turn it on, there will be sounds you don't want to hear...

    Only flick that switch when you're sure.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

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