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Finally Played a True Historic

Sanji

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Feb 22, 2016
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They are all as toneful as can be. Pick a good one from any time '93-now and you'll be golden.

+1
 

marshall1987

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Jan 30, 2005
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3,278
The soup du jour seems to be this ridiculously lightweight Fiji Mahogany. At first it was sort of cool but now that it is common and I have A-B compared a bunch of pre-Fiji bodied guitars with the post-Fiji, I'm liking the pre stuff even more. This stuff tends to be very ice-picky in tone with less midrange and sustain (albeit a "louder" acoustic tone, but louder does not equal better).

This hot hide glue is the biggest bunch of crap as well. I'll concede "more historically accurate" but I don't agree it changes tone one bit. The plain ol titebond dries hard as hell and is stronger than the parent wood. It is the precision of the wood joints that matter most IMO. A proper wood joint requires very little glue.

I still think the new Historics are very good and well made, but certainly not any better than the older historics, and most certainly not worth the current asking prices (to me anyway).

+1000

You read my mind.
 

lpnv59

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Like I posted before. If you can't tell the difference, then the difference doesn't exist. So I agree it would be a waste of money for those who don't. So don't.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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Like I posted before. If you can't tell the difference, then the difference doesn't exist. So I agree it would be a waste of money for those who don't. So don't.

A real consistent difference can be measured and quantified, not as some quasi spectral mystic sound only heard by the anointed few. I hear well enough, thank you very much. Tone is not the reason for this model upgrade. That is why so many, including Burst owners, have such difficulty in blind listening tests telling them apart.

They have greater attention to vintage details, uber correct plastics and improved fretwork/neck setup.
 

lpnv59

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The argument is the same for those who feel that their Epiphone Les Pauls are as good as any. If they don't hear the difference, then there isn't any.

There wasn't a single feature on that list of upgrades that entered into my decision to take home my TH. I don't care about the vintage correctness in the color of plastic or the shape of pu covers. The neck profile on my TH sucks, So much for that part of your list. I could be blindfolded and paralyzed from the neck down and still tell I'm not holding the neck of a real burst.

I was told the wood is selected for the series. Maybe that means Edwin Wilson wraps on the body blanks with his knuckles and the designates which line gets what....I don't know. My connection to the Custom shop is a pretty good source. But I may have gotten that wrong. I kind of daydream when I'm bored....happens a lot! ADD ya know!!
 
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Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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14,537
I'm sure you bought a great one, you are like me, I take the ones that pick me. I just want to be clear, I personally played several new unsold R9's, THR9's and my R9's and found the same range sonic signatures. No two were identical but I found enough overlapping of tone, same as I've found every year, to know that the tone remains as it has for many years now.

I do not think that the player who loves great tone has to buy a THR to get it. I found plenty of R8's that sounded as good.

Ever since my surgery, and recovery in Winter makes me daydream too much myself. Getting hammered with big blizzard up here on the big lake.
 

lpnv59

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I'm sure you bought a great one, you are like me, I take the ones that pick me. I just want to be clear, I personally played several new unsold R9's, THR9's and my R9's and found the same range sonic signatures. No two were identical but I found enough overlapping of tone, same as I've found every year, to know that the tone remains as it has for many years now.

I do not think that the player who loves great tone has to buy a THR to get it. I found plenty of R8's that sounded as good.

Ever since my surgery, and recovery in Winter makes me daydream too much myself. Getting hammered with big blizzard up here on the big lake.


Of course! And I know there has to be some TH R9's I would run away from too.
 

Professortwang

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Dec 16, 2009
Messages
761
I'm sure you bought a great one, you are like me, I take the ones that pick me. I just want to be clear, I personally played several new unsold R9's, THR9's and my R9's and found the same range sonic signatures. No two were identical but I found enough overlapping of tone, same as I've found every year, to know that the tone remains as it has for many years now.

I do not think that the player who loves great tone has to buy a THR to get it. I found plenty of R8's that sounded as good.

i couldn't agree more with this assessment however I do like the finish on the new THR9's and many of the Donna and Nikki guitars look fantastic. My decision to buy one would be based largely on cosmetics.
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
Messages
10,030
It's been a really long time since I have picked up a Historic R9 that didn't sound at least "good" or "acceptable" once professionally setup and any necessary repairs properly performed. Sure some are better than others, at least to my ear (I find this is subjective and can vary greatly by listener), but with that said, the days of true "tone turds" are pretty much a thing of the past, in my experience.
 

lpnv59

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I guess I'm really picky! :## Gibson lost me shortly around '04. Stock Historic Les Pauls whenever I would pick them up at a shop or at a show, were mostly on the dead side. Not all...but most. I had a Page #1 that was pretty good, what year was that? But A/B'd to my old 50's Les Pauls with old dead strings, '04 up R9's would always seem to pale. On occasion I did pick up good guitars I'm sure. I just don't get the resistance by some to believe that when HM does a bunch of work to an R9, it opens up the tone. But if Gibson reworks their manufacturing to exclude the dreaded TR condom, use hide glue etc. like HM and Dave Johnson. And then taking it a step further with a specific wood selection, that those guitars can't ring more open. Unless you feel the HM is only a cosmetic improvements, you may get an argument from those that have done it.

That said, my burst and conversion both still blow away both the TH's I've tried. Johnny A bought the first TH I tried for his Yardbirds tour. And about 10 days ago he was wondering how close his was to a real burst. So I brought my burst over for him to do an A/B and he said "My guitar doesn't do this". Then he said he was going to sit in with Robben Ford. So I joked it would sort of be a mind blower if he pulled a burst from out of his gig bag. So I let him take it to the Robben gig that night. Wish I could've gone but I had a gig myself....So Robben plays an R9 for most of his set these days. And of course John let him plug my burst into his Dumble at sound check. After a minute he says to John, " I don't want to play this guitar anymore." " I have to play mine after and its gonna bum me out".

So I think that is good evidence that even though I feel the newest R9's and Historics are better than ever....bursts they aint! But both John and I feel what we got are closer to old wood than any previous R9's we've owned. After getting his TH, John is about to let go of his former #1 R9..... a '99 Murphy he bought new from Ronn David. He loved that one for years...But these TH's seem to have a more complex openess when you get to play them against each other. :salude
 
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emg32

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May 27, 2003
Messages
463
I've played several TH's. Didn't find anything exceptional about them tonally over the 2013's, 2014's, etc... except every individual guitar sounds somewhat different. They seemed no more resonant, open sounding or better playing than previous years.

IMO if you like and need the added cosmetic accuracy features and find a TH that speaks to you then go for it.

If you automatically buy a TH thinking it's going to be a tonally better guitar than any previous years Historics then maybe shop around and save yourself some $$ and still get a kick ass Gibson Historic.
 

222tweed

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Nov 2, 2020
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13
Things that I enjoy spending money on: Guitars, amplifiers, microphones.

Things I don't enjoy spending money on: Mortgage, a roof, new carpeting, furnace filters, the list goes on...

Unwise uses for my money: Hookers, one more spin on the roulette wheel, heroin, cocaine.

If you are smitten with the new TH guitars spend away my friends I for one can see why you would. As for me I wasn't smitten with the guitar I played. Had I been I most likely would have done some trading and forked out the asking price.

One of the coolest, funniest comments I’ve ever read on a forum.
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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8,349
Has anyone played a TH side by side to an Historic Makeover's?? Just wondering how they stack up against each other..
Thanks!
 

dnabbet2

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May 31, 2017
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211
Has anyone played a TH side by side to an Historic Makeover's?? Just wondering how they stack up against each other..
Thanks!

I've currently got a True Historic '54-style Custom and a Florian Jaeger Makover 2 based on a Robbie Krieger Les Paul with a staple pickup in the neck position -- the Robbie Krieger got damaged when I moved, so while I was getting it repaired I got the Makeover done too.

The True Historic, as noted above, is not an exact copy of the 1950s models I played back in the dawn of time. But it's VERY close in feel. The neck especially is perfect. The rolled binding is just right. It weighs about eight and a half pounds. It sounds great.

The frets are not the same as the originals, which is good, 'cause the originals were too small and low ... for me. The tuner buttons are metal instead of plastic. The top carve is not as pronounced as any of the originals I ever had. The "ageing" of the binding is a bit dark. But overall, I love it.

The Jaeger Makeover is over nine pounds, and though the neck is actually smaller -- I measured with micrometers -- it feels bigger. The whole guitar gives the impression of being bigger though I know it's not. Anyway, it's got a nicely carved top now and the Jaeger "ageing" is more subtle. And it's my go-to guitar now -- VERY articulate.

samesame2.jpg
 

Sol

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Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Looking at this from the perspective of a guitars construction, 1993 was the year. It marked the return to the original method of joining the neck to the body just as it was designed to be from the outset, and in the manner we're all now familiar with.

IMHO no subsequent change, alteration or tweaking of details large or small are more significant than that made back in 1993.
 

rockabilly69

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Jul 29, 2001
Messages
2,872
Looking at this from the perspective of a guitars construction, 1993 was the year. It marked the return to the original method of joining the neck to the body just as it was designed to be from the outset, and in the manner we're all now familiar with.

IMHO no subsequent change, alteration or tweaking of details large or small are more significant than that made back in 1993.

I love forums, just for the disagreements :) I would rather have a guitar with no trussrod condom, hide glue in the neck joint, and short well fitting neck tenon as long as it was not one of those piece-o-crap rocker tenons, than the reverse of that. And although I like 1993's long neck tenon, I think 2013 was the years things really got interesting. I was just about ready to give up on buying Les Pauls, and then I heard a BUNCH of great 2014s and damn, I was back in the game! The OP, Professor Twang. is one of my best friends, and his 2013 is a MONSTER of a Les Paul, and we've played that guitar through a bunch of killer amps (most of the them being revered vintage examples), and it never fails to give up the goods! And it's bone stock.
 
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