Exposing the "evil doers"...

yeti · Feb 16, 2014

landminelenny said:
Well, Paul Stanley is parading a fake burst as the 'real deal'.

He said "artist":couch

madformac · Feb 16, 2014

yeti said:
He said "artist":couch

A make up artist is still an artist :jim

landminelenny · Feb 16, 2014

yeti said:
He said "artist":couch

Con artist?

Groover · Feb 16, 2014

Laughed my ass off JJ :rofl Word of the week "cuntiest" :hank

Tom Wittrock · Feb 16, 2014

hoss said:
Well, I don't know what it sold for but he had it on his website for 180.

As much as I was involved in "outing" that mess, I encouraged the buyer to go to their booth and buy it ... which he did.
I don't know the final number [which I wouldn't reveal anyway], but it was well under $180K.

Tom Wittrock · Feb 16, 2014

landminelenny said:
Who is he connected with in the uk?

Graceland Guitars is Mark Grace in South Africa, and his father Alan Grace in England.
The website only mentions they are a father/son team, and all addressing is in South Africa.

I do not know of any connections between Alan [or Mark] and the infamous MG crowd, so I do not connect them.

JJ Blair · Feb 16, 2014

Groover said:
Laughed my ass off JJ :rofl Word of the week "cuntiest" :hank

Seriously. It was one of those places where you'd go in, and the sales people ignore you, and give you that slight attitude of contempt, unless you're famous and they recognize you. You could be standing at the counter for fifteen minutes before they acknowledge you, while they sit there, regaling themselves with stories of what Jon Brion just bought.

I've seen that game in antique shops. It's like, "I'm going to pretend you're not important, so that you'll buy something really expensive to try to get my approval."

Tom Wittrock · Feb 16, 2014

ourmaninthenorth said:
I doubt it matters who, it seems every UK guy that's ever looked at, even in passing, anything vintage, is a gobshite. Glass houses springs to mind, of course said in the same spirit of generalisation that appears to be the gathering norm here. All UK enthusiasts are NOT, I repeat NOT Music Ground by proxy.

I agree, and probably should not have mentioned the UK connection, but it seemed relevant.

And, I know several dealers and collectors in England that I trust as honest and decent people in the vintage guitar world.
MG has been THE vintage dealer in the UK for so long, their bad reputation sullies many others in the country. And, mentioning them sometimes brings out others or their kind.
I would not put Graceland in their category. I know of only this one deal that was "handled poorly" to put it mildly and fairly.

jimmi · Feb 16, 2014

landminelenny said:
Well, Paul Stanley is parading a fake burst as the 'real deal'.

Who does this reflect worse on.....Stanley - and artist that may have owned a burst but is primarily a player or GM who is supposed to be an experienced luthier and supposed expert?

jimmi · Feb 16, 2014

TW59 said:
I agree, and probably should not have mentioned the UK connection, but it seemed relevant.

And, I know several dealers and collectors in England that I trust as honest and decent people in the vintage guitar world.
MG has been THE vintage dealer in the UK for so long, their bad reputation sullies many others in the country. And, mentioning them sometimes brings out others or their kind.
I would not put Graceland in their category. I know of only this one deal that was "handled poorly" to put it mildly and fairly.

I think for right or wrong, there are enough people connected with MG and the lengths that they have gone to create forgeries that anyone connected with them or near them will be viewed with suspicion and have to "prove" their honesty. It is the way it is...it is hard to wash off the stink once it is there.

I know I am very reluctant to deal with any dealers from the UK because of it and some of the ones that have moved to the states. I personally would pay more to deal with people I know to be honest and it is hard to nail down the history from another country. I think threads like this one help the honest dealers as much as hurt the dishonest ones.

ourmaninthenorth · Feb 16, 2014

Larceny and skullduggery is Larceny and skullduggery regardless of accents. I agree that MG's tentacles have burrowed deep into the psyche somewhat, but to tar all the UK enthusiasts (and I use that word deliberately) with the same brush is erroneous.Where big money is, the bandits aren't usually far behind. However, I see plenty of good guys too championing the cause. All hope is not lost.

The OT author, Banker, is a Brit, to name but one. I wouldn't bat an eyelid in seeking out his advice and or opinion... so by definition is He tarred with the MG brush too? My reading of this section over the years has shown that he is associated with the MG shennanigans...by being vocal and consistent in his opposition to the parlous state of their nefarious dealings. He is not alone on these shores. Please, let us be really careful with these generalisations, otherwise MG, and their denizens truly have pissed in the well, and spoiled the water permanently.

:salude

Black58 · Feb 16, 2014

I admit that I sometimes try to pass off
ketchup and rubber bands as a spaghetti dinner. :bat

hoss · Feb 16, 2014

TW59 said:
As much as I was involved in "outing" that mess, I encouraged the buyer to go to their booth and buy it ... which he did.
I don't know the final number [which I wouldn't reveal anyway], but it was well under $180K.

Of course. I also don't know what Guitarpoint paid for the guitar and what they sold it for, I just know the price tag from their website.

Doc Sausage · Feb 16, 2014

Once again, it may be a blessing that I can't afford the genuine article. I can't authenticate that that is Paul Stanley, much less, a REAL vintage burst!:##

landminelenny · Feb 16, 2014

jimmi said:
Who does this reflect worse on.....Stanley - and artist that may have owned a burst but is primarily a player or GM who is supposed to be an experienced luthier and supposed expert?

Both.

Banker · Feb 16, 2014

ourmaninthenorth said:
He is not alone on these shores.

The vast majority of what I've learned and shared, to one extent or another, is directly from good upstanding UK dealers who are as sick and tired of the usual suspects as the rest of us. They don't frequent forums. Nor do they particularly wish to be public in what they share, but behind the scenes they tip off as many people as they can on who to avoid, but do so in their own individual way.

I've acted as a conduit, not an expert……..which I couldn't possibly claim to be even if I wished it to be so.

mistersnappy · Feb 16, 2014

Doc Sausage said:
Once again, it may be a blessing that I can't afford the genuine article. I can't authenticate that that is Paul Stanley, much less, a REAL vintage burst!:##

I feel ya. My vintage goals are modest and sometimes I get lucky, like finding a '38 EH-150 at a local pawnshop and a mint '62 Fender Deluxe on eBay. :dude:

Cogswell · Feb 16, 2014

Paul Stanley probably doesn't care two bits. I'd bet he was just yanking everyone's chain.
Gord Miller is an expert repaiman, not a vintage guitar authenticator. I've seen & handled a TON of his stuff I would send him any work I needed done in a heartbeat.

landminelenny · Feb 16, 2014

Cogswell said:
Paul Stanley probably doesn't care two bits. I'd bet he was just yanking everyone's chain.
Gord Miller is an expert repaiman, not a vintage guitar authenticator. I've seen & handled a TON of his stuff I would send him any work I needed done in a heartbeat.

Maybe PS doesn't care, but one day someone else may.

hoss · Feb 16, 2014

landminelenny said:
Maybe PS doesn't care, but one day someone else will own that guitar.

:dang

Exposing the "evil doers"...

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