• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Exposing the "evil doers"...

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,077
Larceny and skullduggery is Larceny and skullduggery regardless of accents. I agree that MG's tentacles have burrowed deep into the psyche somewhat, but to tar all the UK enthusiasts (and I use that word deliberately) with the same brush is erroneous.Where big money is, the bandits aren't usually far behind. However, I see plenty of good guys too championing the cause. All hope is not lost.

The OT author, Banker, is a Brit, to name but one. I wouldn't bat an eyelid in seeking out his advice and or opinion... so by definition is He tarred with the MG brush too? My reading of this section over the years has shown that he is associated with the MG shennanigans...by being vocal and consistent in his opposition to the parlous state of their nefarious dealings. He is not alone on these shores. Please, let us be really careful with these generalisations, otherwise MG, and their denizens truly have pissed in the well, and spoiled the water permanently.

:salude

I agree from everything I know of "banker" he is a stand up guy and i am sure there are others but the reality is the actions of several connects with MG has tainted the vintage world in the UK for many. I know several who just will not consider anything from there. There are many forgeries running around and it is hard to know what to believe honestly. It has made it hard for the honest ones fair or not and unfortunate for them.
 
Last edited:

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,077
Paul Stanley probably doesn't care two bits. I'd bet he was just yanking everyone's chain.
Gord Miller is an expert repaiman, not a vintage guitar authenticator. I've seen & handled a TON of his stuff I would send him any work I needed done in a heartbeat.

If hacks like me can tell from a couple pictures on the web then a guy who works on it for a living should be on top of it. By now it has to have made it back to him information posted on his site is incorrect. Even if he missed it the first time i would think he would not want to give authenticity to a fake. It is important to be professional especially when an honest mistake is made (giving him the benefit of the doubt).

As far as Stanley goes, he and Gene are salesman as much as musicians. I agree he may not care or was truly told something to the contrary and too embarrassed to back track.
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
There's a small minority of good guys in the UK scene, and many total villains, and all are intertwined by the sheer necessity of the size and logistics of the domestic market. Everyone on the other side of the counter knows to varying degrees who is bent, who screwed who, what guitars are bogus with no discretion or secrecy, and it's always been like that, and the public will rarely be invited into that club. Suffice to say the info shared recently is remarkable and a rare insight- however, I can relay that someone who fell foul of a long established and publicly regarded but total scumbag central London dealer in the last few years apparently did ring around other dealers for references and no-one told him straight, and he suffered for it, so even a direct advance is no guarantee.
 

landminelenny

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
3,204
There's a small minority of good guys in the UK scene, and many total villains, and all are intertwined by the sheer necessity of the size and logistics of the domestic market. Everyone on the other side of the counter knows to varying degrees who is bent, who screwed who, what guitars are bogus with no discretion or secrecy, and it's always been like that, and the public will rarely be invited into that club. Suffice to say the info shared recently is remarkable and a rare insight- however, I can relay that someone who fell foul of a long established and publicly regarded but total scumbag central London dealer in the last few years apparently did ring around other dealers for references and no-one told him straight, and he suffered for it, so even a direct advance is no guarantee.

A very good post although necessity no longer applies.

Your guy didn't ring me. I also know two people owed in excess of £100,000 by a once reputable central London dealer.
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
Which guy was that Rich?
As for the central London dealer we're talking about Chris Trigg right? There's a name all should remember and all should avoid.
 

landminelenny

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
3,204
Which guy was that Rich?
As for the central London dealer we're talking about Chris Trigg right? There's a name all should remember and all should avoid.

I meant the guy who rang around for references never rang me.

Trigg is no longer in London. he sold the Denmark Street shop a year ago and it's now officially a completely different business with no association to V&R.
 

madformac

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
719
Which guy was that Rich?
As for the central London dealer we're talking about Chris Trigg right? There's a name all should remember and all should avoid.

If you you could drop me an email (your email address here bounces on me) regarding said dealer I would be grateful as you may be able to shed some light on a guitar of mine. Cheers :salude
 

Aloha_Mark

New member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
495
There are numerous ways of taking shavings off the wood and plastic of a guitar that would not be cosmetically damaging. Take a sliver of mahogany from inside the channel where the jack resides, a tiny slice from the fingerboard where it joins the nut, a shaving from the maple cap in the pickup wiring channel, plastic from inside the knob, and paper tape from an uncovered PAF. All items can be tested in a spectrometer, and verified to be authentic. Why hasn't an authenticator seized on CSI techniques to distinguish himself from those who can only offer to do sniff tests?
 

Cogswell

The Duke of Dumbassery
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Messages
15,717
Speaking of evildoers, this cat Andy. I mean, it's not unethical, but it's kinda fucked up the way he takes these guitars and parts them out, if you ask me.

I'm sure this '58 ES-175 was enjoying life in one piece, before it met him.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/vintage_sal...h=item20dfca69e1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Parting a guitar out isn't a crime but this switch tip he's got listed isn't a catalin tip from the '50s, I can tell you that
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Vi...030?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e87396746
 

Cogswell

The Duke of Dumbassery
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Messages
15,717
lol! So, as in the "100% Original" thread, if he had simply stated "switch tip from a 1959 ES-175" he would be completely correct!
 

JBLPplayer

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,136
No one deserves to get taken on a 1985 Lace Sensor equipped Stratocaster let alone a burst. Regardless of wealth, career, social status or otherwise. We are all enthusiast a started in our childhood wanting to play and collect guitars. I know the celebrity in question and he has been nothing but super kind and generous with both myself and many other up and coming musicians. He is a much deeper musician than the public persona may suggest. But, It is this exact thing ( the fakes and forgeries and the ones that never seem to go to jail. ie: check the one less than satisfied customer in the Ebay section of this forum and look no further) gentleman that threatens to derail the train in the upcoming years. If you can't trust anyone or any instrument that you buy or sell, we should all get ready to take substantial write down on what we as collectors are holding. Its not about the money for some nor is it all about money for others. Its about maintaining a healthy state of the union. If I sold my fans a combination of fake and real tickets to shows how long would it last? Exposing the evil doers is one thing but the most baffling part is that people still do business with them and they are allowed to do business. Buyer beware. Wow.

Joe B
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,330
The sad fact is, as a 'civilian' it's very easy to get duped and very hard to get compensated and dealers know that- many if not most give up after years of chasing and legal fees etc and no-one has the energy, finances or simple rage enough to stay the course. It's rather esoteric white collar crime and most unsuspecting, genuine enthusiasts finding themselves at the wrong end of a deal are not prepared or equipped to exert the force needed to bring the guilty parties to justice.
 

hoss

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
6,748
All these reports are making me sad. I was looking forward to this year's Arlington show but right now I don't feel like buying another vintage guitar :(
 

landminelenny

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
3,204
All these reports are making me sad. I was looking forward to this year's Arlington show but right now I don't feel like buying another vintage guitar :(

Why? Don't you trust anyone? Not even Tom Wittrock or Eric Ernest? This is getting ridiculous. There are more good guys than bad guys.

I like vintage guitars. I'm not gonna stop enjoying them because of a few dishonest people. The world is full of them but it's also full of honest and trustworthy knowledgable people who value their name over dishonest gain. If I couldn't tell the difference between a fake and a genuine guitar then I'd have quit the business 27 years ago when I was offered a burst with a killer flame top for £1200 which turned out to be a fake which in the end cost someone their job and their reputation. Tony Rawlinson who used to manage the Rhythm House in Stockport and later managed A1 Music in Stockport owned that guitar. It was eventually bought for £6000 by Bob Murdoch of RKM Supplies from Sheffield. Murdoch sold a fake to Maverick in 2006 but I'm not sure it was the same guitar. Tony was last spotted selling mobile phone covers on Ashton Market.
 
Top