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  1. #121
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarossa View Post

    If somebody wants to build yet another burst clone from scratch, go ahead while I yawn. To me it's like Fender "relics". At one time a beat up Strat meant something and it was really cool. Now that vibe has been killed by the inflation of that look. It's no longer special. That's how I feel about these faux bursts, conversions, whatever.

    What bugs me is when original guitars get converted, issues or not. Especially today. I really think it's wrong, and in the long run, it will be seen as an unfortunate fad.
    I respect your views. But I don't believe that the Burst is the primary motivation for Conversion buyers. *
    If the GT belonging to forum member Ed A ever came up for sale there would be a queue halfway down the street.
    The motivation is that the most desirable guitar on the planet is a fifties Gibson Les Paul with PAF pickups. There are two ways to achieve that. One is very expensive. One is not so expensive.
    If your budget only runs to one real PAF - still worth doing. The winders on both sides of the pond are producing work now which is outstanding.






    * I accept that it probably was 30 years ago.

  2. #122
    Les Paul Forum Member hoss's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipped View Post
    The winders on both sides of the pond are producing work now which is outstanding.
    +1
    My conversion is not getting real PAFs.

  3. #123
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    One of Dicky Betts primary guitars was a converted 55 std, Beck played a 54 or 55 with PAFs, Frampton played a 54 custom converted with PAFs.
    Exactly.

    I get that it is Boogie's guitar and he can do what he wishes with it (and I'll again assume the work will be top notch), but to me personally, the guitar has more desirability and value before the conversion.

    I'll still be watching the thread as I really enjoy how Boogie documents his work.

  4. #124
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by hoss View Post
    +1
    My conversion is not getting real PAFs.
    I have found a couple repros that are very close with old magnets. That said, for me it has been a project to get the guitar "right". That means vintage parts. 80% of my first conversion is vintage hardware (couple pots, knobs and jack plate aren't...and there vintage Grovers so not original kluson but still vintage). The other conversion has all vintage hardware. Both have PAFs except for a really great PAT# in the bridge position of the second guitar that I started to change but have come to love.

    I could find new repro ABRs, pots etc that would be close maybe the same but just doesn't have the same mojo. For reissues I use the repros.

  5. #125
    Les Paul Forum Member MWR's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    The top has quite nice figure and I like the color. For me personally, offset seam would drive me nuts. Enjoy it in good health, it's your geetar!

  6. #126
    yeti
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    I have found a couple repros that are very close with old magnets. That said, for me it has been a project to get the guitar "right". That means vintage parts. 80% of my first conversion is vintage hardware (couple pots, knobs and jack plate aren't...and there vintage Grovers so not original kluson but still vintage). The other conversion has all vintage hardware. Both have PAFs except for a really great PAT# in the bridge position of the second guitar that I started to change but have come to love.

    I could find new repro ABRs, pots etc that would be close maybe the same but just doesn't have the same mojo. For reissues I use the repros.
    What are these "old magnets" you speak of? 50-60 year old alnicos are practically brand new, magnetically speaking.
    Last edited by yeti; 02-10-14 at 01:17 AM.

  7. #127
    Les Paul Forum Member hoss's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by yeti View Post
    What are these "old magnets" you speak of? 50-60 year old alnicos are practically brand new, magnetically speaking.
    I have a set of old magnets (in a mid 1950s spare P90).

  8. #128
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by yeti View Post
    What are these "old magnets" you speak of? 50-60 year old alnicos are practically brand new, magnetically speaking.
    52-60. It isn't the age as much as the way they were manufactured. Still not replicated today. And yes I am aware some are attempting to including the ones made in China....they still don't sound the same.

  9. #129
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    52-60. It isn't the age as much as the way they were manufactured. Still not replicated today. And yes I am aware some are attempting to including the ones made in China....they still don't sound the same.
    Not true, Jon at ThroBak has nailed it with his. I have swapped a gazillion mags in P90's and humbuckers.
    Top carves are sexy

  10. #130
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    I haven't tried his specifically but I believe he and a couple of the others use a common supplier and have used those. There good but switching for real ones made a difference. I know you have tried a bunch so could be the difference between what we aspects we are looking for or amp set up etc.

  11. #131
    yeti
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    52-60. It isn't the age as much as the way they were manufactured. Still not replicated today. And yes I am aware some are attempting to including the ones made in China....they still don't sound the same.
    How are modern alnico magnets manufactured vs the ones from the 50's and what accounts for the difference? Or is an accidentally degaussed alnico to blame for that vintage sound?

  12. #132
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by yeti View Post
    How are modern alnico magnets manufactured vs the ones from the 50's and what accounts for the difference? Or is an accidentally degaussed alnico to blame for that vintage sound?
    The old ones were made by sand casting method (beyond my expertise to describe) which differs from the modern way of making them. My understanding is that no one really still does this method including the newer ones that replicate the composition but don't use the same method of manfufacturing. There are some companies in China that use the sand casting method but I am not sure it is the same as what was being done in the US in the 50s. As to if this contributes to the degaussing and that is actually were the magic comes from...I don't know. I just know that a modern wound PAF clone is significantly improved by swaping for a vintage magnet, short or long.

  13. #133
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    I have installed "boutique" rough cast magnets tweaked to desired gauss level into Duncan Antiquities that will give a VERY convincing PAF look and tone

  14. #134
    Les Paul Forum Member orangedrop's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Here's a good candidate for conversion, all beat up and fugly, stinking P90:ies as well
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PfUOTPrLhk
    (sorry - just couldn't resist) - it's your axe - do what you want with it

  15. #135
    Formerly Lefty Elmo Steve Craw's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    +1. I have had the same result.

  16. #136
    Les Paul Forum Member Snappy Joe's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by boogieongtr View Post
    Possibly because: 1) We have The Beauty of the Burst, Burst Believers and various other Burst books, 2) Most of the LP Slingers played Bursts as their #1 guitar. Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, Mick Taylor, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page, Charlie Daniels, Gary Moore, Billy Gibbons, Jeff Beck, Duane Allman, Gary Rossington, Joe Walsh, Gary Richrath, Steve Lukathier, Slash, Joe B, and a lot of others I haven't mentioned
    3) Gibson releases the R8, R9 and the Collectors Choice series.

    Now let me ask you 1) How many books are there about Goldtop Les Pauls? 2) How any LP slingers played P90 guitars as their #1 guitar? 3) What percentage of Goldtops compared to Bursts does Gibson make?

    I'm 61 and every guitar player that influenced me played a Burst. For me I love the flame!!
    Quote Originally Posted by boogieongtr View Post
    Possibly because: 1) We have The Beauty of the Burst, Burst Believers and various other Burst books, 2) Most of the LP Slingers played Bursts as their #1 guitar. Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, Mick Taylor, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page, Charlie Daniels, Gary Moore, Billy Gibbons, Jeff Beck, Duane Allman, Gary Rossington, Joe Walsh, Gary Richrath, Steve Lukathier, Slash, Joe B, and a lot of others I haven't mentioned
    3) Gibson releases the R8, R9 and the Collectors Choice series.

    Now let me ask you 1) How many books are there about Goldtop Les Pauls? 2) How any LP slingers played P90 guitars as their #1 guitar? 3) What percentage of Goldtops compared to Bursts does Gibson make?

    I'm 61 and every guitar player that influenced me played a Burst. For me I love the flame!!
    Well, there are quite a few great players with P90 out there. Just to list a few from the top of my head: Les Dudek, Neil Schon w. Santana, Santana w. a SG Special, Pete Townshend w. SG Special, Peter Frampton's Les Paul Special, the great Frank Marino and many others more.



  17. #137
    Les Paul Forum Member latestarter's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    How did this conversion turn out? Did we ever get to see a final photo?
    Otherwise known as Grant.

  18. #138
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    The Swing, Be Bop and Country players prefer the P90 sound for sure.......can't blame them....it's just better.

  19. #139

    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by latestarter View Post
    How did this conversion turn out? Did we ever get to see a final photo?



    Last edited by boogieongtr; 12-30-19 at 09:02 PM.

  20. #140
    Les Paul Forum Member maxcarp709's Avatar
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Well worth the effort IMHO.Don't hide that beautiful top!

  21. #141

    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Sad

  22. #142
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    I've not been able to see any photos of this guitar, before or after? Did someone delete all of them??

  23. #143

    Re: ** 54 Goldtop ** Or Should I Say Flametop - Conversion Candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMI55LP View Post
    I've not been able to see any photos of this guitar, before or after? Did someone delete all of them??

    Link works now.

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