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Is The Les Paul a Jazz Guitar?

Midnight Blues

Midnight Blues

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fakejake said:
Great video, lovely playing, but this is not jazz :couch
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Thanks! I have to type though that I respectfully disagree however. Lee Ritenour is and has been, one of the foremost Jazz guitar players around, as is/has Mike Stern. Maybe your conception of Jazz is steeped the more traditional form then? Not that there's anything wrong with that. I still listen to all the greats; Wes, Kenny, Joe, etc., myself.

There's an even better version of it, but it's in a video of the entire show. Ah heck, I'll post it anyway.

The whole thing is worth watching, but if you're not into it, skip to 8:55, same tune, but from a different show:


If you're really ambitious, compare the two, so you can get a sense of how they improvise.



cheers.gif
 
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fakejake

fakejake

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I agree that both Lee and Mike Stern are formidable jazz players. And I’m also aware that jazz is very hard to define.
For me there are several key elements which individually are neither necessary or sufficient by themselves, but a certain combination of those elements should be present for me to categorize a given music as jazz.
The music in the clip you posted for example, does not feature a swing rhythm from the drums and a walking bassline. By itself, that’s not a defining criterion (plenty of jazz with a straight beat, for instance Scofield), although I would say it is pretty important.
The harmony is also rather stationary, not as many chord changes as in swing or bebop. Again, by itself that wouldn’t disqualify a given music as jazz, as there is a whole genre of modal jazz based on that feature.
The sound and instrumentation is also not classic jazz. Overdriven guitar sound, electric bass, some effects.
The combination of those features (or the lack of others) is why I wouldn’t call this jazz, but maybe fusion, or at best jazz-rock or jazz-funk.
But that’s just my interpretation, I can see why others might disagree.:salude
 
Midnight Blues

Midnight Blues

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fakejake said:
I agree that both Lee and Mike Stern are formidable jazz players. And I’m also aware that jazz is very hard to define.
For me there are several key elements which individually are neither necessary or sufficient by themselves, but a certain combination of those elements should be present for me to categorize a given music as jazz.
The music in the clip you posted for example, does not feature a swing rhythm from the drums and a walking bassline. By itself, that’s not a defining criterion (plenty of jazz with a straight beat, for instance Scofield), although I would say it is pretty important.
The harmony is also rather stationary, not as many chord changes as in swing or bebop. Again, by itself that wouldn’t disqualify a given music as jazz, as there is a whole genre of modal jazz based on that feature.
The sound and instrumentation is also not classic jazz. Overdriven guitar sound, electric bass, some effects.
The combination of those features (or the lack of others) is why I wouldn’t call this jazz, but maybe fusion, or at best jazz-rock or jazz-funk.
But that’s just my interpretation, I can see why others might disagree.:salude
Click to expand...

All valid points for sure Jake and I would agree with you for the most part. This is definitely "Not your father's jazz tune" for sure, but to me it's not much different than what Carlton, DiMeola,Holdsworth, McLaughlin, Methany or Scofield (to name a few) do/have done. Just a variation on a theme.


cheers.gif


P.S.

Hope you had the chance/time to watch the entire show, It's definitely worth it!
 
JimFog

JimFog

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Obviously, you can play "jazz" on most any guitar. And as has been proven by multiple examples in this thread, the Les Paul can be an excellent choice.

That said, it's not MY preference. Something about how forward the mids are on a Lester....the very thing that make it a GREAT Rock guitar.......makes it slightly less desirable for a clean, round jazz tone, IMO.

Of course a 335 and all the archtops are great......but for a less traditional Gibson jazz guitar, I actually prefer the SG over the LP. Again, softer, more forgiving mids.

YMMV.
 
K

klimbo

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Feb 18, 2019
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fakejake said:
I agree that both Lee and Mike Stern are formidable jazz players. And I’m also aware that jazz is very hard to define.
For me there are several key elements which individually are neither necessary or sufficient by themselves, but a certain combination of those elements should be present for me to categorize a given music as jazz.
The music in the clip you posted for example, does not feature a swing rhythm from the drums and a walking bassline. By itself, that’s not a defining criterion (plenty of jazz with a straight beat, for instance Scofield), although I would say it is pretty important.
The harmony is also rather stationary, not as many chord changes as in swing or bebop. Again, by itself that wouldn’t disqualify a given music as jazz, as there is a whole genre of modal jazz based on that feature.
The sound and instrumentation is also not classic jazz. Overdriven guitar sound, electric bass, some effects.
The combination of those features (or the lack of others) is why I wouldn’t call this jazz, but maybe fusion, or at best jazz-rock or jazz-funk.
But that’s just my interpretation, I can see why others might disagree <style type="text/css"><!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}--></style>Bluestacks Kodi Lucky Patcher .:salude
Click to expand...
exactly that what i want to say

I think you all said thanks bro
 
Last edited:
Elmore

Elmore

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<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pxFGfkwY6fE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Shocktop99

Shocktop99

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Mar 6, 2017
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I played in my high School jazz band with a couple LPs, my sophomore year was my first Gibson (which was a 87 standard) then I sold it for my 74 Les Paul Custom that was for junior year ,and then my 74 got stolen during the summer between junior and senior year (thank god for insurance) which i replaced with my current 79 Les Paul custom, haven't had any problems especially with my Jazz chorus 120.
 
Midnight Blues

Midnight Blues

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Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,703
Shocktop99 said:
I played in my high School jazz band with a couple LPs, my sophomore year was my first Gibson (which was a 87 standard) then I sold it for my 74 Les Paul Custom that was for junior year ,and then my 74 got stolen during the summer between junior and senior year (thank god for insurance) which i replaced with my current 79 Les Paul custom, haven't had any problems especially with my Jazz chorus 120.
Click to expand...

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