Gibson "factory seconds" in the Henry J. era (1986 and later)?

There is generaly no need for any kind of repair work to be done on Gibson seconds. The flaws are slight cosmetic and never functional. The #2, S and SECOND were all used as well as SEC, stamped into the finished guitars headstock over the finish.

These guitars were made available to dealers at reduced prices and no prohibitions were made regarding sale or resale. The story of giving away guitars that can never be resold and must be returned to Gibson is quite fanciful but I don't believe it for a minute. Sounds like the myth it most probably is.

You guys have it all wrong. Factory seconds were labeled #2, S and SECOND, as Al pointed out while the SEC stamp was used only on guitars that were going to be used in a guitar duel like the one shown below,
"sec" being the abbreviation of "secundant", duhwink

I do believe that some up-and-coming artists were given seconds, and it certainly explains the "PROMOTIONAL NOT FOR RESALE" stamp in the photo above, which appeared at least in 1990 when the other stamps disappeared.

Currently some promotional guitars are resold to the public, for sure, as I've seen them sold and advertised as such by big enough dealers. Often from the Gibson truck after some event. Perhaps up and coming artists just sell them on used if they decide they don't like them, despite the "NOT FOR RESALE" stamp.

I somehow doubt that slash returned his two standards to Gibson :hmm

Big Al said:

no prohibitions were made regarding sale or resale

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I'll post this image again, clearly in this particular case Gibson did not want a resale (although I'm sure it happened all of the time).

MikeSlub said:

I was told (and it has been written) that when Henry took over in 1986, he stopped factory seconds - they went to the bandsaw. If there are any seconds in the 1986-88 timeframe, they may have been offered only to employees, unless I'm missing something. :hank

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They stopped marking 'seconds' and just sold them normally like everything else....

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186330


...figuring no-one will notice anyway.

I remember years ago (probably in the 70's) when I lived in Phoenix, I visited a music store that had good prices, but almost every guitar and amp I saw had some sort of visible flaw. I found out later from another store (that I ended up buying the guitar I was interested in from for a better price), that the other store was well-known for selling seconds of different brands. I saw uneven tuners and cosmetic finish flaws on Gibsons, and even a new Marshall in which the amp chassis was mounted strangely in the head cab, in a manner that much of the control labels under the pots were obscured by the cutout in the cab. Turns out that by digging around, I was able to purchase a better guitar than the one I was looking for at that store by going to another store and making a deal. So, basically that store that sold the seconds without disclosing it was ripping people off. I did learn something, though, about "seconds". I remember seeing some Gibsons with the "-2" added to the serial number on the back of the headstock, and also the ones marked "second" somewhere else.

Al

During the years I worked at Gibson Custom 2002-2008, there were no "seconds." There were racks of guitars destined for the band saw and I finally had to ask to step in and push one through just to experience it.. to get it out of my system. It was and is a shame. But in production you weigh all the costs of making something wrong right again versus starting over and sometimes that means a trip to the band saw.
That said, there was also an "artists' bin" where some guitars that had a cosmetic issue, dents.. doinks... would be held for artists. Employee's could every now and then end up with one and I benefitted from that program. I think maybe that doesn't exist anymore either. Not totally sure.

My 2008 R0 was sold to me as a used guitar. It came with a COA and in the original box. It came from a non-Gibson dealer. For all intents and purposes it was a new guitar.

The deal whom I have done business with for almost 20 years told me the guitar was consigned by a celebrity and it was a promotional guitar. The guitar dude said he could not tell me who. I thought it was a pointless story.

I bought the guitar because it was magical. After I got it home, I called Gibson. They indeed confirmed that it was an artist promo and had been given to them by Gibson and had never been sold new by a dealer. Gibson would not tell me who.

I then called the owner of the shop and asked again. He said he would not say who the "celeb" was, but he was making the check out to an agent for a man that had been known to dance with wolves. Also he said that a certain Mr. Costner had recently played in a band for a Gibson event.

The shop owner told me it was as likely that KC played the guitar that night as it was that there was a stack of guitars given to him to use and this one was never opened. Or another band mate may have used it, or not. Apparently promo gifts to movie stars that dabble at music and those that dont are pretty common as a form of payment. Maybe KC played it, probably not. I have no provanence and really, who gives a crap? ( there are pics online of the event, but I can't find my guitar).

As far as stamping, they might have done it as a second or promo depending on era, but don't assume it happened a lot. It probably only happens when,someone remembers, or if they hav enough notice of the need for a "promo" guitar.

The moral of the story is, Gibson really doesn't get promo guitars back, and I doubt they expect to. THEY ARE GIFTS. This one is not marked second, promo or anything, but Gibson knows where it went. In another decade they might forget. So what? It's a really nice Les Paul and its mine.

I know this thread is a bit old but I've been through it and there are interesting theories there... I had heard long ago about the end of factory seconds and the "band saw" but never paid attention to the '87 "SEC" models that pop up now and then.
I own a '80 Deluxe stamped second (it's a player so it's hard to tell whether there ever was a flaw or if it was "discounted") and recently acquired a '87 SG custom with "SEC" stamped above the serial number. It does have a black discoloration on its back so perhaps it's the reason why it's been stamped but I would dig the idea to own an instrument that belonged to a late 80s MTV headbanger ;-)

Saw the new post on this old thread and had to read it. I liked the mention of Slash. I remember seeing him at the plant. He was the closest thing to a zombie that I have ever seen. Literally looked like a walking dead person. As usual, Big Al is correct about the seconds. Usually a cosmetic flaw, not affecting sound or playability, and not covered by the warranty. Most of the time they were scarfed up by employees. The regular employee price minus an extra discount was a great deal. I’ve never seen a second that was stamped at the same time as the serial number. Any flaw found at that point would have been scrapped. What’s really rare is a BGN stamp, which stands for BARGAIN. Instead of seconds, these were like thirds. Still a cosmetic flaw, just more severe. I never saw this at Nashville, but when my Dad started at Gibson in 1975, he bought a cherry ES 335 TD from Kalamazoo that was a BARGAIN. Had a very dark spot on the top about the size of a dime. Other than that, it was a perfect guitar. I think he got the guitar with a case for under $300. I can also vouch for the dreaded band saw. I played the part of the grim reaper many times. Here’s a few samples from my trophy room. WARNING: this image may be disturbing to some guitar enthusiasts.

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Randy, your screen name should be "THE HEADHUNTER"!!:biggrin:

I was in Nashville for a trade show in the 90's, and the Gibson Café was decorated with sawed up Les Pauls.

For the record a big vintage dealer in LA had a bunch of Izzy Stradlin guitars in. His es175 was stamped not for resale on the headstock. Dont think he got it at the same time as Slash but it was a late 80s model.

Al Russo said:

Bandsaw!...seems like a harsh end to a guitar...lol

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Don't kid yourself. Many of those and Epiphone seconds mysteriously wound up at wholesaler MIRC https://mircweb.com/

They claim they sell "used" instruments. Most of them are seconds from pretty much everyone.