Mind BLOWN (1961 Crest L5 content)

L5CEST said:

Apparently, there is a black one in Fla. I think we've accounted for 5 of the 6 (although someone else, I assume in Japan, probably has the red one in the Tsumura book).

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I'm only counting four.

1. Tsumura book; Grinnell/Nelson book; Adrian Ingram L5 book (red, serial # 16159)
2. Bill in Alabama, whose example inspired this thread (red)
3. This sunburst
4. The black one which Ken had mentioned (didn't specify Florida, so I'm not sure you're talking about the same guitar here).

JimR56 said:

I'm only counting four.

1. Tsumura book; Grinnell/Nelson book; Adrian Ingram L5 book (red, serial # 16159)
2. Bill in Alabama, whose example inspired this thread (red)
3. This sunburst
4. The black one which Ken had mentioned (didn't specify Florida, so I'm not sure you're talking about the same guitar here).

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5. I'm told there's another sunburst...

L5CEST

j45 said:

Look at the photo is the Nelson book which DOES have L5 specs and proximities. Not this guitar which is WAY off from that photo.... Pretty obvious Gibson built one with L5 specs and one version w/Byrdland. My guess is that Andy Nelson has not seen this one or if he did, neglected to include the variation.

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Also, it has the split-block inlays of a Super 400.

In regards to the Rosewood Crests, What are these worth now? I have a friend in Austin who use to play with Rusty Weir back in the late `70's and Rusty had a Crest with mini-hum's (I recall..) and he toured with this guitar constantly. Just wondering how rare those are and what they fetch these days.
This L-5 Crest thread is really nice. I'd almost forgotten about it. Thanks for digging it up!

Hi everyone. The June 2016 edition of Vintage Guitar has an article by Gruhn that features the 1960-1962 Crest (sharp-cut, fancy L5CT-based) and the 1969-1970 Rosewood Crest (sort of a fancy 330 with two mini-HBs). The article pictures a cherry red Crest that I've never seen before (single coil PUP in back, with jack and toggle switch mounted on top near the knobs--unusual). For some reason, Gruhn says it's the best known example and that there are 3-6 Crests. I count seven, as follows:
1. Cherry red. Two HBs. Alabama. Pictured in this thread. Original wooden pickguard (unusual). Clean.
2. Cherry red. 2 HBs. Pictured in the Tsumura Collection, Japan (although Norio Imai thinks it might be in the US by now). For many years, this was the only one ever published.
3. Cherry red. Pictured in June 2016 Vintage Guitar. Single coil bridge PUP. Original wooden pickguard. Clean
4. Sunburst. Two HBs. Colorado. Original Crest TP replaced with 6 finger TP; replaced tuners. Reputedly clean.
5. Sunburst. Two HBs. NYC. Pictured in this thread. Original Bigsby recently replaced with vintage L5CT TP. Super 400 headcheese pickguard. Restored to period correct. Some checking and dings.
6. Black. Florida? Reputedly beat-up and needing restoration.
7. Brown. Nashville, TN.

I'd be grateful for any corrections and updates. Very cool guitars, for sure.

L5CEST

OK--upon rereading this thread it seems like we're back to 6 (not seven), L-5CT, Andy Nelson Crests. The "brown one in Nashville" that I mentioned above, appears to be a 1969 Rosewood body second generation Crest with a hybrid neck with split blocks. See the link in the thread above: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/29454-1968-gibson-crest/.

L5CEST

PS: On the subject of bracing: some of the L5CT's had x bracing, some had parallel (which you need to install built in pups). Gibson management had a traditionalist preference for parallel bracing on archtops, which was a real holdover from the days of acoustic archtop orchestra guitars. Andy Nelson pushed for x-bracing and thicker tops on archtops, which did not endear him to Gibson management. The Johnny Smith model was styled after Johnny Smith's D'Angelico (he had several over the years) and used x-bracing. For example, my thin line L-5s are braced as follow: 1955 L-5 Byrdland prototype, parallel; 1960 L5CEST, parallel; 1962 Crest, parallel; 1962 L5 CTN, X. Go figure.

TM1 said:

In regards to the Rosewood Crests, What are these worth now? Just wondering how rare those are and what they fetch these days.

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Sorry, never saw your post until now...

According to George Gruhn's recent article in VG magazine (http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/vintageguitar/201606_v2/#/42), 172 rosewood Crests were produced from '69 to '72.

Archtop.com currently has one (the gold version) priced at $6500. https://www.archtop.com/ac_69crest_416.html

L5CEST said:

Apparently, there is a black one in Fla. I think we've accounted for 5 of the 6 (although someone else, I assume in Japan, probably has the red one in the Tsumura book).

PS: in the end, mine ended up getting restored with modifications, which were limited to pulling the varitone, rewire to mono and changing the TP to replace the Bigsby. No real sins. Just dealing with mods by the original owner, who used the guitar heavily as an active recording musician.

Best,

L5CEST

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Hey all, new to the forum! Looking to find some info on the “black” Gibson Crest. I’m a fellow guitarist myself and I live in Houston... one of my dearest friend/family members was the original owner of the apparent “black” Gibson crest. The original finish on it was Cherry Red, he had traded the guitar to Johnny Smith (a friend of his) for a Johnny Smith model. My friend is in his 80s now, he’s a very well respected guitarist from back in the day. Trying to help him track down the guitar, so he can just see it again. He was the one who had it made. He was telling me all about it, I couldn’t believe it and then I looked it up and finally found this forum (which I am super thankful for)... he said Johnny sent it back to the factory and had it refinished. He said he talked to Johnny before he passed, and Johnny told him the guitar was gone. Any help or email or contacts would be super appreciated. I think we all want more info on this special instrument as well. The look on his face when I read on here that people were looking for the “black one”... he said “that’s it, that’s it”..

Patrickwknox said:

Hey all, new to the forum! Looking to find some info on the “black” Gibson Crest. I’m a fellow guitarist myself and I live in Houston... one of my dearest friend/family members was the original owner of the apparent “black” Gibson crest. The original finish on it was Cherry Red, he had traded the guitar to Johnny Smith (a friend of his) for a Johnny Smith model. My friend is in his 80s now, he’s a very well respected guitarist from back in the day. Trying to help him track down the guitar, so he can just see it again. He was the one who had it made. He was telling me all about it, I couldn’t believe it and then I looked it up and finally found this forum (which I am super thankful for)... he said Johnny sent it back to the factory and had it refinished. He said he talked to Johnny before he passed, and Johnny told him the guitar was gone. Any help or email or contacts would be super appreciated. I think we all want more info on this special instrument as well. The look on his face when I read on here that people were looking for the “black one”... he said “that’s it, that’s it”..

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You say it was originally cherry red, and that after acquiring it, Johnny Smith had it refinished in black? Seems slightly odd to me. Does the original owner have any photos he can share with you (to be shared here)? Can you tell us any more about the original owner and his use of it?

There are at least two (and possibly three) red Crests currently surviving from the original group of six instruments. So, three red; one sunburst; another alleged sunburst; and the "black" one. If the black one was originally red, that would mean that four of the original six were red. Anyway, I'm the person who started this discussion, and I too am always interested in learning more about these guitars.

The person who identified himself here as "L5CEST", and who managed to purchase the sunburst Crest (pictured earlier in this thread; previously owned by Joe Podorsek) has since been identified in an online article about his collection, as well as putting his collection (including his Crest) up for sale not so long after he posted here. I won't mention his name here, but anyone who wants more information about that shouldn't have much trouble finding it.

JimR56 said:

You say it was originally cherry red, and that after acquiring it, Johnny Smith had it refinished in black? Seems slightly odd to me. Does the original owner have any photos he can share with you (to be shared here)? Can you tell us any more about the original owner and his use of it?

There are at least two (and possibly three) red Crests currently surviving from the original group of six instruments. So, three red; one sunburst; another alleged sunburst; and the "black" one. If the black one was originally red, that would mean that four of the original six were red. Anyway, I'm the person who started this discussion, and I too am always interested in learning more about these guitars.

The person who identified himself here as "L5CEST", and who managed to purchase the sunburst Crest (pictured earlier in this thread; previously owned by Joe Podorsek) has since been identified in an online article about his collection, as well as putting his collection (including his Crest) up for sale not so long after he posted here. I won't mention his name here, but anyone who wants more information about that shouldn't have much trouble finding it.

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The original owner's name is Charlie Cash. I will try and maybe record a video of him (sort of like a tell-all) that way you can really hear it from his mouth. But he used to own his own music store..as well as managed the first H&H music here in Houston. He had many people come through back in the day...and before I ever found this forum, he told me years ago about Andy Nelson and creating the Crest and how stupid he was for trading it. He does not have pictures of it, which is why I was trying to locate it, just so he could see it again. He told me back when he designed it, it had his name on the headstock and the bridge, in gold. He told me he couldn't remember if he had asked for a bigsby or not...he told me it had a super thin neck on it...he told me it was originally cherry red with 22 frets. He told me Andy Nelson took his order. The story about the black refinish HAS to be true, bc for one..he doesn't know about this forum or even how to look this far into finding info on it...and two, while casually telling the story, tells me the original color WAS cherry red...which is the exact color for some of the others, only validates the black one coming out black for some strange reason. He told me he couldn't remember if Johnny had it refinished due to it being roughed up by someone else...or for possibly another reason. But he said when he called him before he passed, Johnny had told him it was gone already. He used to go see Johnny in Colorado Springs, CO. Charlie has had (2) Johnny Smith guitars, One was stolen...and the other he still owns. I know the first one was given to him...I'll try to get a video and post it on his youtube channel so that you can hear some of the stories straight from the horses mouth. I appreciate all the love on this guitar and for this thread even being here...Charlie is a very close person to me, and I just wanted to reconnect him to the guitar he had made. Just to see it again, that's all!

Let me know if I can help clear anything up or if I can answer anything for you! Thank You again!!

Patrick, thanks for the info on Charlie. I did a web search on him, and found a couple of interesting things. Glad he's still around, and I hope he's still playing. A video of him would be great.

I think I will suggest two things...

First, in post #45 of this thread (seven years ago), an e-mail address was provided for Ken N., whose sunburst Crest was the subject of discussion here. I corresponded with Ken at that time, at that address, and he mentioned that he knew of a black Crest, and that the owner would "come forward" if he so chose (he apparently chose not to). Anyway, I suppose you could try to contact Ken at that address. I have not kept in contact with Ken, and have no idea whether that address is still working.

Ken sold that sunburst Crest to another forum member here, who posted as "L5CEST" (I mentioned him above). Not too long after buying it from Ken, he had a professional restoration done, and then listed it for sale. From dealing with Ken, he may have learned something about the black Crest also, but I'm not sure. Other than our exchanges in this thread, I have never contacted or corresponded with him. However, a profile about him, and contact info are available at the following links:

https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/the-unparalleled-beauty-of-the-gibson-l5-archtop

https://www.gbase.com/stores/my-l5-collection/inventory

I hope that this is helpful to you and Charlie. If so, I would greatly appreciate it if you would return here to share any info that's reasonable to share publicly. I think there are others like me who are very interested in the histories and status of these rare guitars, even if we're not actively seeking to own one or trying to profit from owning one.