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Matchless Lightning - Sampson v/ New

SJD53LP

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Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
30
I'm looking for a Matchless Lightning Reverb amp loaded with either 1x12 or preferably 2x12, and ideally Sampson era. But as you might imagine, there are not many out there (let me know if you know of one).
My question is, what is the difference in the Sampson era Lightning's from the 90's versus brand new ones? If someone is well familiar with both old and new, I'd appreciate your comments on the difference in sound or build quality.
Thanks.
-Steve
 

Wayne Alexander

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Aug 28, 2003
Messages
499
The sound and build quality should be identical. Phil Jameson builds them now, he worked at Matchless then. I've got a 5 year old DC30, it's built, and sounds, the same as the ones built during the 90s.
 

bluesforstevie

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Jun 20, 2002
Messages
12,771
The thing about Matchless amps...or any amp...is. They are only as good as their weakest link.....wait for it........

....Tubes. Matchless amps are notoriously hard on tubes. The only tubes that weren't too expensive and you could run hot for awhile...are EL84. Which they did run very hot.

All the overbuilt this and that...didn't matter because they treated tubes like crap....at least all the ones I've ever played. Have killed tubes. Even if they were the best sounding amps ever...which they weren't / aren't...they just weren't worth it. IMO.
 

sickboy79

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Apr 2, 2002
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5,161
The thing about Matchless amps...or any amp...is. They are only as good as their weakest link.....wait for it........

....Tubes. Matchless amps are notoriously hard on tubes. The only tubes that weren't too expensive and you could run hot for awhile...are EL84. Which they did run very hot.

All the overbuilt this and that...didn't matter because they treated tubes like crap....at least all the ones I've ever played. Have killed tubes. Even if they were the best sounding amps ever...which they weren't / aren't...they just weren't worth it. IMO.

I respectfully disagree with you Dan. You are correct in that Matchless amps run hot. It's a fact. But, Whether the amp is worth it or not based on that is in the ear of the player. I'm a Matchless junkie, as I have a few. While they are indeed hard on tubes - NOS tubes truly excel. in them. Not that everyone can go that route but, Tesla EL34s lasted almost 5 years in my Clubman. I just recently retubed her. My HC-30 is still going strong - about 5 years as well, on a strong set of NOS EL84s. New production tubes - sure, 500 hours or so. To me, that's not a big deal. I personally think that part of the magic in Matchless amps is the fact that they run their tubes hard to get that tone. And, to my ear - it's an AMAZING tone that's surpassed quite a few amps for me. But, in the end - it's all good. We have different ears and opinions.

To the OP - Wayne is correct. Phil builds them just like he did when he worked for Mark and Rick. Same spec, same components, trannys, etc. He's even said the QC is better than it was in the old days. He's a stand up guy, and I've had nothing but great experiences with him. That said - probably the biggest difference in TONE you'll hear between a new one and old one is that the old ones are "broken in." Yes, broken in. The components have settled into their sweet spots at operating voltages, etc. So, they may sound warmer/fatter than newer ones - but ,not by much. I'd encourage you to try both if you get the chance.

Hope it helps.
 

bluesforstevie

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Jun 20, 2002
Messages
12,771
I respectfully disagree with you Dan. You are correct in that Matchless amps run hot. It's a fact. But, Whether the amp is worth it or not based on that is in the ear of the player. I'm a Matchless junkie, as I have a few. While they are indeed hard on tubes - NOS tubes truly excel. in them. Not that everyone can go that route but, Tesla EL34s lasted almost 5 years in my Clubman. I just recently retubed her. My HC-30 is still going strong - about 5 years as well, on a strong set of NOS EL84s. New production tubes - sure, 500 hours or so. To me, that's not a big deal. I personally think that part of the magic in Matchless amps is the fact that they run their tubes hard to get that tone. And, to my ear - it's an AMAZING tone that's surpassed quite a few amps for me. But, in the end - it's all good. We have different ears and opinions.

To the OP - Wayne is correct. Phil builds them just like he did when he worked for Mark and Rick. Same spec, same components, trannys, etc. He's even said the QC is better than it was in the old days. He's a stand up guy, and I've had nothing but great experiences with him. That said - probably the biggest difference in TONE you'll hear between a new one and old one is that the old ones are "broken in." Yes, broken in. The components have settled into their sweet spots at operating voltages, etc. So, they may sound warmer/fatter than newer ones - but ,not by much. I'd encourage you to try both if you get the chance.

Hope it helps.

Ok...I'll stipulate for the record that I've only played a couple of Matchless amps.....and wasn't impressed. One was a Chieftan...I believe EL84?? and the other was a Clubman head.

I played the Clubman and it ruined a pair of in spec NOS Double D Amperex...(I was dumb enough to put them in without knowing how hot they'd run)....ruined them in a span of 40 minutes. I put a pair of Russian NOS EL34 to see what was going on and the amp was running them at near 65mA!!!!

It did sound good tho...just before they blew....lol!!!
 

Diablo1

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Jan 20, 2008
Messages
597
If you think they biased the tubes too hot, there's an easy solution......solder in some higher-ohm cathode resistors. Should take you all of 30 minutes. Amps don't have to incinerate tubes to sound good.
 

sickboy79

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Apr 2, 2002
Messages
5,161
Ok...I'll stipulate for the record that I've only played a couple of Matchless amps.....and wasn't impressed. One was a Chieftan...I believe EL84?? and the other was a Clubman head.

I played the Clubman and it ruined a pair of in spec NOS Double D Amperex...(I was dumb enough to put them in without knowing how hot they'd run)....ruined them in a span of 40 minutes. I put a pair of Russian NOS EL34 to see what was going on and the amp was running them at near 65mA!!!!

It did sound good tho...just before they blew....lol!!!

WOW! 40 minutes? Must have been the spectrum of where those tubes were at. That's crazy!

Like I said - it's all good. I'm a Matchless guy - so I'm biased!
 
Y

yeti

Guest
Ok...I'll stipulate for the record that I've only played a couple of Matchless amps.....and wasn't impressed. One was a Chieftan...I believe EL84?? and the other was a Clubman head.

I played the Clubman and it ruined a pair of in spec NOS Double D Amperex...(I was dumb enough to put them in without knowing how hot they'd run)....ruined them in a span of 40 minutes. I put a pair of Russian NOS EL34 to see what was going on and the amp was running them at near 65mA!!!!

It did sound good tho...just before they blew....lol!!!

I've played a few Matchless amps, Lightning, Clubman, Chieftain, DC/HC-30's, never could get a tone I liked BUT I have heard many players use them and sound absolutely fantastic, Doug Pettybone among them, but as with many new boutique amps they do not sound good with every guitar unless you tweak the settings. Maybe that's why I don't like them.
Gretsch Filtertrons and Matchless amps seems like a magical combination to me.
 

sickboy79

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Apr 2, 2002
Messages
5,161
I've played a few Matchless amps, Lightning, Clubman, Chieftain, DC/HC-30's, never could get a tone I liked BUT I have heard many players use them and sound absolutely fantastic, Doug Pettybone among them, but as with many new boutique amps they do not sound good with every guitar unless you tweak the settings. Maybe that's why I don't like them.
Gretsch Filtertrons and Matchless amps seems like a magical combination to me.

They do work well together! Doug Pettybone - AMAZING player. Seen him live. Just fantastic tone from that Clubman!
 

J T

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Oct 20, 2005
Messages
10,501
I have absolutely no complaints at all about my Tornado. It is similar to the Lightning. This one has the vib circuit.

I bought it from the Black Crowes a few years back.

Matchless1.jpg
 

koss59

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Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
199
I agree that there is no quality difference between the new and old ones.
The one's I've owned weren't much worse on tubes than any other amp I've ever owned ( Vintage Marshall and Fenders )
Most people who don't like them are very messy players so can't get them to sound good, they show EVERY mistake but are so rewarding if you play cleanly.
 

bluesforstevie

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Jun 20, 2002
Messages
12,771
I've played a few Matchless amps, Lightning, Clubman, Chieftain, DC/HC-30's, never could get a tone I liked BUT I have heard many players use them and sound absolutely fantastic, Doug Pettybone among them, but as with many new boutique amps they do not sound good with every guitar unless you tweak the settings. Maybe that's why I don't like them.
Gretsch Filtertrons and Matchless amps seems like a magical combination to me.

They didn't have any swirl or air to them....real thick, and present tone...very midrange laden from what I remember.
 

ourmaninthenorth

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Mar 28, 2009
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7,119
Had a Mark Sampson era Chieftain, and now have a Phil Jamison Little Monster.
I'm a huge fan of these amps, and I also appreciate they're not everybody's cup of tea, ain't that what makes the world go around, the differences?

Interestingly, whilst understanding that Matchless run volcano hot, I've not experienced any valve failures in either of them, I use Mullards, Brimars et al - in fact any BVA valve; I'm very fond of seeing "made in Britain" on anything!!!

The Little Monster is currently running an EL84 from the 50's, the little bugger is older than me, and some would have it, far more musical than I....:rofl I regularly give this amp a serious good hiding ( well as serious as you can get at 8-9 watts) without issue.

Build quality of both era amps is top notch, both are as heavy as a small car, both have that delicious juicy Matchless sound that I love. Tom Murphy, Pete Cornish SS3, and Matchless - my go to gear, have been for years. When the Wife ain't looking, a DC30 is coming in, and that will be, as they say, that.

Cheers all.

:salude
 
Y

yeti

Guest
Most people who don't like them are very messy players so can't get them to sound good, they show EVERY mistake but are so rewarding if you play cleanly.

I'm a sloppy player but I'm not hiding it, I usually don't use delay, reverb or distortion pedals, just what the amp (I'm strictly a non-MV guy) gives me. The least forgiving amps IMO are big brownface Fenders set to 3 or 4. My Concert with 7581A powertubes, set to 3 or 4 is the most difficult amp I've ever played, especially with a Tele, but very rewarding when you get to make it do what you want it to do.
So with regard to your comment, I think you're wrong. I love amps that are "difficult", the issues I have with Matchless are the grainy distortion,lack of air and mostly the fact that they are not harmonically rich at all. Guys like Pettybone use its' cleans as a platform and do the rest with pedals, something that I don't like to do but I love a matchless played by someone who knows how to use it right. Another guy who really gets a great sound from them (with a Klon Centaur) is John Wedemeyer, killer player with killer tones. But w/o pedals I think they sound dry and stiff.
 

koss59

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Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
199
I'm a sloppy player but I'm not hiding it, I usually don't use delay, reverb or distortion pedals, just what the amp (I'm strictly a non-MV guy) gives me. The least forgiving amps IMO are big brownface Fenders set to 3 or 4. My Concert with 7581A powertubes, set to 3 or 4 is the most difficult amp I've ever played, especially with a Tele, but very rewarding when you get to make it do what you want it to do.
So with regard to your comment, I think you're wrong. I love amps that are "difficult", the issues I have with Matchless are the grainy distortion,lack of air and mostly the fact that they are not harmonically rich at all. Guys like Pettybone use its' cleans as a platform and do the rest with pedals, something that I don't like to do but I love a matchless played by someone who knows how to use it right. Another guy who really gets a great sound from them (with a Klon Centaur) is John Wedemeyer, killer player with killer tones. But w/o pedals I think they sound dry and stiff.

Maybe I should re-phrase as I can't stand listening to sloppy players play them.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as I think the Matchless slightly broken up sound is one of the finest complex sounding overdrives ever and I get much more compliments using that than I ever did with vintage Marshalls of Fenders.
I only use it in large venues though or it's overkill.:peace2
 

Cottage

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Oct 25, 2002
Messages
582
Man, the worst mistake I ever made was trading off my Spitfire. Best sounding little club amp I ever had. I don't know about the other ones but that thing killed with a LP.
 

lpcust

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Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
414
I can't comment on the OP's question of old v new.

I can say that the early DC-30's we ran for years didn't consume tubes any faster than the Fenders, Marshalls, Traynors and so on that we also ran. Nary a failure (NOS tubes only). Same with the Chieftains.

Personal preference being what it is, it doesn't much matter that our DC-30s (and slightly less so the Chieftains) sounded glorious to my ear :)

We sold the DC-30s because they were so loud. (and heavy) I regret doing so.
 
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