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Vintage ROLA G12 Alnico speakers?

v-verb

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Jul 16, 2001
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i think those are the pre-Blues. Pretty nice speakers!!

But I'll let the experts chime in
 

bigtomrodney

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Those ran concurrently with the "blues" and are essentially the same. The blues were coloured that way for Vox. These are.the speakers in early JTM45 and Bluesbreaker cabs, the same as those thought to be in Clapton's amp. They're 15W.

I'm not too hhot on cone codes so I couldn't tell you about the variant.
 
Y

yeti

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I think Celestion reissued this model (1200 of them) for the Marshall 4x12 open back cabinets of the threehundred Offset JTM45 reissues Marshall made in the early 2000's. Great sounding cabinets.
118661g.jpg

images
 

keef

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Cool find - those cones are Celestion cones.

Is there no stamp on the gasket (cork ring)? If it is a date code, the BH stamp would indicate February 1963.
 

Jeff West

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Don't confuse ROLA/Celestion B024/B025 with T650/T652, although they look quite similar. B025 (15/16 0hm) is a '50s design, early version of G12. It's the one that had to be beefed up in a few ways to generate the T530 blue and T652 (uncovered) silver (like v-verb said). According to Jim Elyea the B024 had aluminum coil, so be careful! I think they still may have made them into the '60s though. I'd also be interested in any gasket stampings on these. All B024s or B025s I've seen even late '50s had dates on manilla gaskets, and various RIC cones. I don't think I've seen or heard of "RCIC" before, anyone? Although I'd certainly guess it's original.
 
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skeletor

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nice cabs! where did you find those beauties? look like early 65? Ive got a pair of those myself but all the original grill & covering are long gone. need to restore them somehow.

do yours still have the leather handles on them?

the T652 or T0652 are definitely the alnicos used by marshall.
 

goldtop0

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Thought I'd dig this up again as I like old Celestions and there are no pics able to be seen in the OP or elsewhere in the thread anymore.

Rola G12 alnico(with the large screws on top) and from the late '50s..........I'm interested in these as they may be 12 or 15 watt?
What do you guys reckon.
 

F-Hole

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Rola G12 alnico(with the large screws on top) and from the late '50s..........I'm interested in these as they may be 12 or 15 watt? What do you guys reckon.

12w, they'll blow in an AC15.

652's were 20w.
 

goldtop0

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12w, they'll blow in an AC15.

652's were 20w.


I thought as much as I read on the BygoneTones site that the alnicos were updated/revised in '62 to a higher wattage by another 5w to 15-17 watts.
I've got an old 74 1772 that's 12watts.

But the T652s are capable of 20 watts you reckon.........that's something I didn't know and hadn't come across.
 

Bygone_Tones

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My understanding is the B024 / B025 was 12 watts through the 1950's (as stated in the Celestion brochure). Then the vox blue / CT3757 came along and was supposedly upgraded to 15 watts but what parts changed exactly I don't know. I always thought the T652 was the same as the blue at 15 watts. They would have increased by 5w (to 20w) by late 67 when the voice coils were upgraded. Although I doubt the T652 was still being produced in late 67.

Before the mid 1950's there seems to be other G12 models around such as P74, not sure what their power rating is.

All I could find on those 50's speakers is here:

http://www.bygonetones.com/1950s-celestion-alnico-speakers.html

If anyone has more info or photos I'd be interested to learn more. This is a bit of a grey area. Few speakers turn up from that period.
 
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goldtop0

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Thanks for the info.
The 74 1772 I have is an outstanding speaker and works great in my PR 1x12.
Took it to my speaker guy as it had an annoying grungey crunch sound(after the note) at higher volume, he said it had a loose dustcap, fixed it, and all good, perfect.
For a 65 yr old speaker that's just amazing.
 

Jeff West

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FWIW, Jim Elyea says in the Vox book that ca. mid '59 Celestion engineers set out to increase the power handling of the B024 specifically for evolving guitar amps, ended up switching from aluminum wire VC that had been used previously on B024 to copper, also reinforced the braided leads to the terminals, reinforced the cone with 1/2" of some then-unusual doping, for 15W rating of the T530 in summer 1960 (pp. 268-69). They had also experimented with some other things, including non-paper VC former additions.

Jeff
 

goldtop0

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FWIW, Jim Elyea says in the Vox book that ca. mid '59 Celestion engineers set out to increase the power handling of the B024 specifically for evolving guitar amps, ended up switching from aluminum wire VC that had been used previously on B024 to copper, also reinforced the braided leads to the terminals, reinforced the cone with 1/2" of some then-unusual doping, for 15W rating of the T530 in summer 1960 (pp. 268-69). They had also experimented with some other things, including non-paper VC former additions.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff.
It's interesting the information that comes to light. Vox favoured 8 ohm speakers for their amps and cabs from what I've read and can see, said the 8s had more treble response, yet Marshall used the T652 16 ohm.
In '59 it was Cliff and The Shadows, Lonnie Donegan, Tommy Steele in the UK..........Celestion were keeping up with the game in '59 and from what unfolded/evolved with their speakers in the early to mid '60s.......well the rest is history isn't it.
Were makers in the US 'doping' their speakers back then do you know.
 

Jeff West

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Here's another tidbit for consideration: Jim E. maintains that the January 19, 1960 date given as the registration for the T530 "Azure Blue" is in error, it was entered wrong and was actually January 19, 1961, one year later. Moreover, per his understanding that date reflects the date (in '61) that the T530 first officially became blue, after six months of production in "Oyster Hammer" finish exclusively, under the T530 designation. He notes documentation of examples of Oyster Hammer T530s so far confined to the period of July 30 to November 20, 1960, and the earliest confirmed blue T530 as Feb 12, 1961 (anyone here got an earlier one?). A variety of evidence is presented in support, including entries in a parallel contemporary Celestion log designated the "PA Products Records List". He also shows a photo of the relevant page of the famous T Numbers log book, with "Blue" subsequently written over "Oyster".

Brian- I'll send you some photos of relevant pages.
 

Jeff West

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" Were makers in the US 'doping' their speakers back then do you know. "

Well, Jensen was one who did, although not just in the obvious ways.

Twenty-odd years ago there was a reconer, Jim Benson, who I dealt with a number of times. He had decided to focus exclusively on vintage Jensens, was way into their details, had original parts, original Jensen paints, labels, cones, the works. I had some interesting conversations with him.

One example I remember is that I have a few vintage P8RXs, pale silvery blue from 1958 (220830). The "X" version has a cone and dust cap that looks just like typical P8R, but it is an "extended frequency" model that has very noticeably more high end extension (and less bass) compared to standard '50s P8R. Accordingto Jim, the main difference in constructing these in the '50s was that a special doping dissolved in solvent was applied to the cone, stiffening and altering it. You can't really see it on the cone, but results were very pronounced. He had a stash of some of that stuff on hand, naturally.

Incidentally,l I still have a few vintage P10Rs and P10Qs that he reconed back then, working fine and sounding good and authentic, I'm trying not to blow them all up. Not sure what happened to him, but his work lives on. Anyone here have Jim Benson encounters?
 
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