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Best Nut Replacement for ES 339 ?

vaillantk

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
6
Greetings. As many have pointed the Gibson Cshop ES-339 is an awesome guitar, but the one "weakness" many, including ME, find is the inexpensive Nut: yes it looks a bit Bright White, but I can NOT keep this guitar in tune. I used Big Bends Nut Sauce, replaced strings, stretched strings and even had a guitar tech look at it. I have guitars I've paid $200 for that stay in tune, I certainly expect it from the Gibson. I use both D'addario XL and Curt Mangan hybrid sets that are basically 10.5 Gauge on average. I'm perfect willing to shell out another $50-100 for a new replacement Nut. What do you forum members that Own this model recommend ? I would prefer to get a pre-cut one and install it myself, but I'm open to having my guitar notch a high-quality blank, if necessary.
Thanks!
vaillantk from Rockville....
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
Are the slots cut properly...? That's the 1st place to look. Despite whoever looked at your guitar. Also: are the strings wrapped on the posts correctly. That might cause tuning issues if done wrong.

Although I haven't messed w/ the nut on my 339, I usually prefer bone nuts. Unbleached Vintage Bone in particular. A little dab of Teflon in the slots works great as a lubricant. I never have tuning problems. :jim
 

clayville

Active member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
5,736
It seems to me that you have a nut problem, not a 339 problem. As you've noticed, Gibson's have a rather steep headstock angle from the nut to the tuners, and also a rather sharp angle from the middle strings out to the tuners. Either of those components of the design can lead to binding in the neck slots, especially on the middle strings where the angle is more pronounced. Gibson slots are, I believe, cut for 10s and it's possible your 10.5s just need a bit more room.

I'm not entirely sure how a guitar tech (with proper nut files) could fail to remedy a nut binding issue with just a few draws of his files. But if he just "looked at it", then maybe not.

If a lubricant fails to fix you up (the Nut Sauce you've tried, simple graphite from a pencil lead, or even wax from something like Chapstick), then next steps and common home remedies using no specialized tools (the approach I used on my own CS-356) include:

Using an old and larger guage wound string than the one that should be in a given slot as a file to try and gently widen the slot. But in my minimal experience that can get sloppy and be a tedious cure.

Folding a piece of fine sandpaper and using it to draw through the slot (wrapping around a string can help), trying to work only on the sides rather than the bottom of the slot.

Failing that, you could buy one or more of the proper sized Nut Files and widen your slots the way a professional tech would.

It's a fairly complicated set of angles that the string has to travel on a Gibson, but most "tuning" issues are really nut binding issues. The main trick is to go slow, remove material incrementally, and only from the sides of the slot - for proper intonation and to reduce unwanted overtones, the string needs a clean, sharp take-off point when it leaves the nut and heads for the bridge. You want to be careful to make sure your slots have that when you're done.

If you're determined to replace your nut, I think most players would recommend bone. But I don't think you'll find a reliable pre-cut one since Gibson necks all vary and are handmade. In a perfect world, the nut is individually customized, matched to the guitar, the player's prefered strings and all the other variables in the geometry of the strings's flight: bridge height, fret height, prefered nut slot depth, headstock angles, etc.

This guy gets high marks for nut and saddle material on many websites that I frequent:
http://www.guitarsaddles.com/default.asp
But note Question #10 on his FAQ carefully.

Someone will be along in a minute to tell you "Absolutely! Go ahead and rip out your nut and cut a bone one! It's not rocket surgery! Every guitarist should have the proper tools and know how to do this themselves!", but... I'm betting a small piece of sandpaper and 15 mintes will cure your problem. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

vaillantk

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
6
Brilliant ! I will try the fine grade sandpaper (I have some 600 grit laying around, I think) wraped around a string as a sort of file and just slightly widen top of the middle string slots- the D and the G do seem to give me the most trouble- they will bind as I'm tuning up from flat, then suddenly go sharp.... no fault of my guitar tech, he always starts with the basic stuff first and he did just give it a quick look-over as I was picking up another piece that day. Thanks everyone, I really love the guitar, I own about 7 Gibsons and Fenders- this 339 is my first (semi) hollowbody, traded my 2006 LP Standard for it after seeing Luther Dickenson tearin' it up with just his brother on drums when opening for Robert Plant's on his last solo tour. Again, thanks - I'll report back my results.

-KV
 

clayville

Active member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
5,736
I hope that works for you. I generally follow the hypocratic oath of guitar remedies: "First, do no harm!" :eek:la
 

bern1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
1,275
ok, a little balance to the equation:

this is really not a big deal to fix.......IF you know what you are doing....

I just spent 2 hours today on a $300 guitar I bought 6 months ago.... it came from across the country six months ago, so over the last few months it had developed a nice bow in the neck.....when I first got it I was in a hurry to go to a jam session with friends and the nut was ridiculously high...

so I cut it down a little, but not so much that I was in danger of going overboard....however, it wasn't really enough

so today I fixed all the problems.....but I know how to do it.

If it's a guitar you love and you don't know what you are doing, find a competent tech....

or be prepared to go slow, learn, and possibly start over....

you can't really break anything if you are careful...have fun!
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
I have a 339 with no problem, so it's not the material. Though I like bone so I may replace mine anyways.
 

Robin B

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
111
Try a TUSQ brand replacement nut .but it will still have to be fine tuned after installation
 

$Member1957

New member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
1
Greetings. As many have pointed the Gibson Cshop ES-339 is an awesome guitar, but the one "weakness" many, including ME, find is the inexpensive Nut: yes it looks a bit Bright White, but I can NOT keep this guitar in tune. I used Big Bends Nut Sauce, replaced strings, stretched strings and even had a guitar tech look at it. I have guitars I've paid $200 for that stay in tune, I certainly expect it from the Gibson. I use both D'addario XL and Curt Mangan hybrid sets that are basically 10.5 Gauge on average. I'm perfect willing to shell out another $50-100 for a new replacement Nut. What do you forum members that Own this model recommend ? I would prefer to get a pre-cut one and install it myself, but I'm open to having my guitar notch a high-quality blank, if necessary.
Thanks!
vaillantk from Rockville....

Please to forgive my english, I am an engineer.

I have been playing guitar for 52 years owned quite a few and repaired many more. I have a BSME in mechanical engineering and have worked my entire career in consumer product design and development. Over that time I have come across many product design problems and never failed to find the root cause and resolve the problem. I will admit I was embarrassed once or twice at how long it took me to find the root cause/causes.

I bought my first Les Paul new and the so called "best tech" set it up. I played it about 5 minutes before discovering it was hard to tune and even harder to keep it in tune. Every string bend messed up the tuning. I was spoiled by my PRS McCarty that played perfect out of the box with no tech setup. But I digress.

I quickly jumped to the nut as I had seen this before, where the slots were to tight, rough etc. you can test this by bending the string ahead and behind of the nut, If the nut binds, lower tension is created on the side of the bend altering the pitch of the string.

I lubed the nut with chap stick - n luck, graphite -no luck, Boob Lube , and even very carefully silicon oil - no luck. (DON'T PUT SILICONE ON YOUR GUITAR, YOU CANT GET IT OFF AND CANT FINISH OVER IT).

The Guitar 2013 Standard came with a Corian Nut. I thought the Corian might be less than ideal so I removed the nut to make a new one. With one small tap I turned that Pleak Cut Corian nut into a 5 piece pile of scrap.

I bought a genuine Gibson Bone nut with precut slots - failed, I made a bone nut - failed, used a TUSQ nut - failed, I made a polycarbonate nut - failed.

I stopped and assessed why none of these worked. I first realized that the neck angle was steep and as the string passes through the nut towards the tuner it also bend away from the center line of the neck.

My theory on nuts is that should cause the minimum amount of friction on the string. Ideally the string would barely touch the nut, minimizing the Normal force and related friction. PRS has really done a good job with this and Fenders also work well, but Fender has to many string trees etc.

The Gibson guitars really contort the string bending it first over the nut 7degree, than the lateral shift bend going to the tuning key. The effects of this have to be minimized to minimize the friction.

Normally I'll cut the nut slots one size larger than the intended string size. I have lots of nut files they are cheep. For Gibsons I cut them two sizes over at least. There is so much lateral load on the string it will pull against the outside wall of the slot because it is pulled that way by the tuner. there will be no vibration issues here causing string buzz/rattle.

I use as shallow string slot as I can. The standard practice is to have 1/2 the string standing above the nut. I get there by cutting the string slots before finishing the top of the nut.

When I cut the nut slot I bend the nut file at the head stock end of the nut. The file enters the nut parallel to the strings and exits toward the tuning peg. This is hard to do. I really start with two cuts then bend the file and round it. This is easier to accomplish on the larger strings where there are larger slots. The small slots are just too narrow to do much curving. The theory is to make the string enter and exit the nut without creating a kink in the string at the entrance or exit. Remember you can use a wider than normal string slot. I once made a nut laminating two pieces of bone. I cut the entrance on one piece and the exit on the other. When glued together a distinct angular bend occurred in the middle of the nut. Yes it was a pain to make, but I proved it could be done. It did not work any better than the file bending method.

I cheat the head stock angle by winding strings above the string hole. It can really help the E strings.

Polish the string slots as smooth as possible and Lube liberally. I use Chapstick, I am sure there are better products like BigBends, or Teflon.

Last Christmas my son got an ES339 with the exact same problem and we fixed it in the exact same way.
 
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