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52-59 Burst Conversion

MikeScalf

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
1,307
Just wondering.....is this now a part Gibson/Part Replica Les Paul? :hmm
 

JP'59

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
169
boogieongtr - your skill set is incredible. I like what you have done and envy your talent with wood. can't wait to see the end results! :)
 

MapleFlame

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Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,044
Boogie, Jim I believe your name is, it seems that I'm getting flamed more than you are, which is fine with me.

I don't really care if anyone likes what I have to say in this context, and it seems that you don't either, which I respect.

I also respect your obvious skills, and your right to do your project as you see fit.

I've restored some excellent guitars for some ridiculously cheap money too, so we're on the same wavelength there.

I just can't reconcile (in my mind) removing old wood from a vintage Gibson for the purpose of improving the cosmetics.

My approach would have been different; I would have put on the vintage neck and decided if I liked the tone and feel of it before doing anything so radical.

Now there's no way to know if the guitar is tonally better or worse than what you would have had with the vintage neck on it.

Good luck to you, and I hope that you are satisfied with the results.

I agree with you to the tee. There is no way anyone can convince me that the new top will sound as good as the old one.
 

boogieongtr

Active member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
937
Today I will do the neck tenon . I have a sled that I use with my OH pin router for all of my milling applications. I use several templates that I attach to the bottom of the sled. All templates are indexed with the two dowl pins. I'll attach the template for the neck tenon.

Pickup002.jpg


The sled is set level.
Pickup004.jpg


I shim up the body so the neck angle is at zero and clamp it down.
NP2-1.jpg


I lined up the body so when I routed out the new neck pocket it would be close to the old one. I did OK, you can see I split the holes I drilled to steam out the old 70's neck.
NP3-1.jpg


Job completed, a perfect 4 degree neck angle.
NP5-1.jpg
 

boogieongtr

Active member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
937
There is no way anyone can convince me that the new top will sound as good as the old one.

Steve, I wish you lived closer so you could hear for your self how great a retop sounds. Until you hear one you'll never know and are just making a logical assumption.
 

Wilko

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Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
20,853
I'd be willing to believe that a retop could sound better, but the odds are likely in favor of the original top. Good hide glue, very dry piece of the right maple could do it--and you get the added bonus of a good looking center seam.

Is this one of those pre-carved tops from up north?
 

MapleFlame

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Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,044
Steve, I wish you lived closer so you could hear for your self how great a retop sounds. Until you hear one you'll never know and are just making a logical assumption.

I have on many occasions both on 50's LP's and 68's. It's not just that, it's the people at Gibson that did the work during those times that I want to be kept alive. Not just about the wood for me, it's more than that. :)
 

MapleFlame

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Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,044
I'd be willing to believe that a retop could sound better, but the odds are likely in favor of the original top. Good hide glue, very dry piece of the right maple could do it--and you get the added bonus of a good looking center seam.

Is this one of those pre-carved tops from up north?

No he does the recarve himself. That's why we are all complimenting him with all the setup he has, I may not like the retop, but I am impressed with all the research and work that has been done to achieve the process.
 

keef

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,006
Do I see SEVEN unfinished Les Paul bodies in one of the photos? You must be a full time luthier.

Man - I can't even glue two pieces of paper together. Your skills are amazing.
 

sapi

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Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
1,292
Can't wait to see the finished project... all hail to boogie!
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
I'd be willing to believe that a retop could sound better, but the odds are likely in favor of the original top. Good hide glue, very dry piece of the right maple could do it--and you get the added bonus of a good looking center seam.

Is this one of those pre-carved tops from up north?


I agree and also add that by starting with a "clean" precision crafted body with accurate routes and neck set angle, the guitar restoration process avoids the pitfalls of using an old mangled body in poor condition, which most likely would require substantial neck pocket work, plugs, and shims. An analogy would be something like renovating an old house with a poor foundation. If you don't correct the faulty foundation properly, the remaining restoration work above the foundation will never be satisfactory. The two are intrinsically linked.

It stands to reason that the final product will possess a much tighter neck fit, superior neck/body coupling, and proper angle to the body, than you could achieve by using the old mangled body, requiring substantial neck joint prep and shims. I believe these factors and other intangibles will contribute to outstanding tone in the final analysis.
 

Otto 57

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Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
1,345
Wait you lost me. In those pics the body is not the old '52 body. Where is the old body with the new top?
 

sharq attaq

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Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Messages
1,636
what this boils down to IMO is finding a piece of '50s mahogany and building a guitar with it using an old neck.

Interesting no doubt, but painful to see those pics of an intact '50s les paul body going into that planer and coming out beheaded.

youch!

I guess the fact that you already have a burst makes you think a little different.
 

rufes

Formerly dmartinez
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
4,389
Wait you lost me. In those pics the body is not the old '52 body. Where is the old body with the new top?

The body is out. Finally he's just keeping the strings






Sorry, could not resist
 
Last edited:

Raw Materials

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
533
Great Job Boogie!!!

"Cutting the man down for retopping?? PUH-lease!! He already has at least one burst and a 1957 GT, I think he knows what is best for HIS guitars people!!

Of course your getting flamed more than he is! Geez.

Pretty soon the "sour grapes brigade" will begin posting again because your excellent skills are garnering more attention than they are!!

Thank you for not only SAVING that vintage axe, but for showing us how you go about your wonderful restorations!

BRAVO!!!

:headbange
 

boogieongtr

Active member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
937
Thank you everyone for the encouragement and kind words. Next up is to bore the control holes. How do you get them vintage correct in placement? First I made a dummy blank control back plate for my 57 Goldtop. I removed a tone & volume pot, screwed the dummy plate to the guitar and then bored thru the dummy plate from the top of my 57 Goldtop.
CH1.jpg


I do the same process for all 4 pots. Now I have a template to use for boring the control holes.
CH2.jpg


Next I took the dummy control plate and screwed it the the 52 body.
aa002.jpg


I attached a 1/2" piece of wood to my drill press and with a 3/8" bit I drill into the wood. I then use a 3/8" rod and place it into the hole.
CH3.jpg


With the template screwed to the 52 body I use the centering pin and then bore all 4 control holes.
CH5.jpg
 

DHBucker

Active member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,367
I had a twinge of pain when I saw the top come off too, but from what I see from your photos and your owning a burst, you know what you are doing and I won't dare second guess your project. I wish you luck and hope that your guitar is everything you want. To second guess a person with your skill and that knows how a real burst behaves,feels,is built,etc is just armchair quarterbacking IMHO. Please continue to show us your work as you go along. I for one wish I had your skill,tools, and a real burst.
 
L

loufed52

Guest
Great Job Boogie!!!

"Cutting the man down for retopping?? PUH-lease!! He already has at least one burst and a 1957 GT, I think he knows what is best for HIS guitars people!!

Of course your getting flamed more than he is! Geez.

Pretty soon the "sour grapes brigade" will begin posting again because your excellent skills are garnering more attention than they are!!

Thank you for not only SAVING that vintage axe, but for showing us how you go about your wonderful restorations!

BRAVO!!!

:headbange

Yes, attention from guys like you is really important to us dissenters.

:rofl :wank
 

Billy Porter

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
1,129
I’m not getting involved in any arguments regarding the re-top

I’m just pleased he’s sharing the process with us and revel at the guys amazing skills. :wow
 

bigjimsguitars

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Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
3,890
All I can say to all of those who are flaming the OP, why don't you collectively take that energy and go after those who rape perfectly good guitars for their parts. That is more of a crime than what the OP is doing to a guitar that was already fingerfucked.

If I recall correctly, the OP noted that he was using air dried Michigan Maple and that in and of itself is worthy wood for any guitar!

Yo Mapleflame, wasn't it you on another forum that was panning this guitar when it was on eBay? You could have easily stepped in and rescued it and restrored it to your hearts content. I'm sure there were other guitar restorers who saw the listing and contemplated taking her on.

I'm glad that it landed in competent hands and that it is going to be a restored/converted 50's Les Paul. Not to say that Mapleflame or someone else would have not done a great job on it.

As one poster noted, the way the OP is doing this, there will be a more precise neck pocket with proper neck angle that will translate into better sustain and resonance.

I admire both sides of the debate, but at the end of the day it is the OP's guitar.
 
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