• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Byrdlands: Florentine or Venetian, and why?

Danny W.

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
106
Re: Why choose?

If they're not labeled Byrdland what are they stamped as - ES-350T's?

4076037739_18b04745c0_o.jpg


These are all thin-body L-5 CES guitars, except for the one labeled "Byrdland." Despite the difference in name, the two florentine cutaway ones are virtually identical.

My Byrdland was custom-made with a 25.5" scale, one of very few that have been made this way. I've had a number of standard Byrdlands, but I'm much more comfortable with the longer scale.

Danny W.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
DannyW, those are beautiful gutiars.
RE: the 25.5" scale 'Byrdland'....I see that all of those guitars have 20 fret necks. The Byrdland should have 2 frets. So, in effect, isn't that Byrdland just a relabelled L-5CEST..'T' for thin-bodied?? Except the L5-CEST was based on the L5CT/George Gobel, which has the 24 3/4" scale....George Gobel was a short fellow. Are your thin-bodied L-5 CES gutiars 25.5."?
Just trying to put things togethr and learn some more.....
 

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
It can happen....not a Byrdland, but its close.
DSC_0421.jpg


Prettier tops on ES-350T's for sure. Of the two Byrdlands and three 350T's I've had in recent years, The 350's were the better sounding guitars IMO. Plywood seems to be well suited for the microphonmic qualities of PAF's, I find the tiny appr. 1 1/2" nut, short neck, combined with the odd, sometimes clashing harmonics of the neck and middle position from non-conventional placement in the harmonic scale make Byrdlands a bit of a "challenge" to get the sweet tones we normally expect from a Gibson. Not to mention the playabilty challenge. If these sounded as good as other models and played as well as other PAF models they wouldn't be so "cheap". Never stopped me from trying them, though. I had a '58 ES-350 that was the best of the bunch. I'll post pics of the Byrdlands when I get back home.
 

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
Was that your 350 with the Bigsby and aluminum bridge?

Yes, it was an unlikely candidate for the best of the bunch according to conventional thinking but was a very sweet sounding guitar compared to my other 350's and Byrdlands. I think I just assumed it was factory because of the "fading' but I don't think I ever took the bottom hinge of the Bigsby off to check. Did Gibson ship Bigsby equipped guitars with the Bigsby bridges or were most factory equipped Bigsbys shipped with ABR-1'S?
 
B

bigsby'd

Guest
The reason I remember that guitar, is because the Bigsby was a rare '56 in gold, if its the one I'm thinking of. I've seen a factory '57 Byrdland with the same Bigsby, but its a rare piece. The only guitars I've seen from Gibson with factory Bigsby bridges were LPs (mostly '56 Customs, and a couple of specials)
Almost every Bigsby bridge I see on an archtop is modern. Up until sometime in the mid-late 60s, the bridge bases got thinned, and the casting of the saddle got cleaned up, and slightly narrowed. I seem to recall that the bridge on yours was a later unit, but my memory might be failing.
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,744
The florentic style reminds me of a half-finished Barney Kessel. Not my cup o' tea. So, venetian for me, absolutely.
And PAF's, which narrows my selection to 1958-1960. I'm not sure I can get used to the narrow/short scale neck though. But the 58-60 version looks stunner :)
 

Danny W.

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
106
DannyW, those are beautiful gutiars.
RE: the 25.5" scale 'Byrdland'....I see that all of those guitars have 20 fret necks. The Byrdland should have 2 frets. So, in effect, isn't that Byrdland just a relabelled L-5CEST..'T' for thin-bodied?? Except the L5-CEST was based on the L5CT/George Gobel, which has the 24 3/4" scale....George Gobel was a short fellow. Are your thin-bodied L-5 CES gutiars 25.5."?
Just trying to put things togethr and learn some more.....

Yes, all those guitars have 25.5" scales. The prototype for the George Gobel had a 25.5" scale, as did a few of the first production runs Gibson made of that model. Over the years, Gibson has built them with either scale length.

As for why one of my florentines is a Byrdland and the other is an L-5 CEST, Gibson told me that one was ordered as a Long-scale florentine Byrdland and the other as a thin florentine L-5 CES, so that's how they got named.

Danny W.
 

kingsleyd

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2003
Messages
1,336
OK, so, this isn't exactly a Byrdland, or even a Gibson for that matter, but I've got Matt Artinger working on a new guitar for me. I wanted a single cutaway version of Matt's "Hollow Sport" model with a Florentine cutaway. When Matt got to drawing the guitar he thought it reminded him of a Byrdland. (for a relatively young guy, Matt is very into his Martin & Gibson history) So he dubbed it the "Kyngsland."

Yeah, yeah, it's a 25.5-inch scale, and the body width is only 15 inches, it has a maple top, and the f-holes are a little modern, but looking at all these great photos (thanks fellas! they look great! :salude) I can see where Matt is coming from.

P4040119.jpg


Here's where we are as of this past week:

P5270304.jpg


Sorry for the OT post here, I just thought it was funny that I have this project going and all of a sudden a great Byrdland thread pops up on the LPF. Synchronicity!
 

blauserk

Active member
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
1,778
How's this for a rare Byrd? Supposedly a 1959 Byrdland tenor:

gib_byrdtenor.jpg


Is that really a 4-saddle ABR-1?
 

LarryN

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
234
I like the Venetian. I had a sunburst in the late 60's that was so nice. I like the pointy look better. It was so easy to play. I traded it for a mint '53 Goldtop that I WISH I still had. I sold it to Bobby Blue Bland's guitar player at Basin St. West.

I like the Artinger design. I played one of Kimock's Artingers. Nice!
 

maestrovert

New member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
229
Oh my God, look at that !
Definitely a rare bird, Thanx for posting it ....

How's this for a rare Byrd? Supposedly a 1959 Byrdland tenor:

gib_byrdtenor.jpg


Is that really a 4-saddle ABR-1?

...and back on topic; i appreciate the classic (and classy) apearance of the Venetian version...with the natural finish also.
 

andreja marovic

New member
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
2,688
OK, so, this isn't exactly a Byrdland, or even a Gibson for that matter, but I've got Matt Artinger working on a new guitar for me. I wanted a single cutaway version of Matt's "Hollow Sport" model with a Florentine cutaway. When Matt got to drawing the guitar he thought it reminded him of a Byrdland. (for a relatively young guy, Matt is very into his Martin & Gibson history) So he dubbed it the "Kyngsland."

Yeah, yeah, it's a 25.5-inch scale, and the body width is only 15 inches, it has a maple top, and the f-holes are a little modern, but looking at all these great photos (thanks fellas! they look great! :salude) I can see where Matt is coming from.

P4040119.jpg


Here's where we are as of this past week:

P5270304.jpg


Sorry for the OT post here, I just thought it was funny that I have this project going and all of a sudden a great Byrdland thread pops up on the LPF. Synchronicity!

Oh man...this is beautiful...I really appreciate the looks and the construction.
Looks likea cross odf many guitars and remains original to the unique vision of the Artist.I am not familiar with Art's work but I can tell that he is a great builder.Please keep us updated with your baby.Will love to see it finished.
Thanks again for posting your new guitar.More.....:photos
GREETINGS
Andreja
 
B

bigsby'd

Guest
I've seen this vid before. Pinera's guitar is weird. Block inlays, gold hardware, long guard, varitone. Hmmmm. Re-boarded 345?
 
Top