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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member reswot's Avatar
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    Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    I've been searching for this info, but haven't been able to find it.... Can anyone give me a rough timeline of what type of grillcloth March was using on its cabinets during various eras?

    From what I understand, there was the material on the offset JTM45 cabs, followed by the the pinstripe, but after that I'm unsure -- I may even be wrong about what I think I know?

    So... When was the salt and pepper cloth used? How does this differ from the black and tan Marshall cloth that Mojo sells (and when was the latter used?)? When was the cloth with the large checks used? When did they switch to black cloth?

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member j45's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    This will be a "ROUGH" timeline as you requested. I haven't checked my Marshall book and just going by what I recall from the ones I've owned over the years. Pinstripe repaced the white cloth around 65/66, basketweave around '67, large checkerboard around 71/72 and the smaller checkerboard also appears sometime around 74, black around 79/80?. I could be off a year or so on some, this is strictly from past associations. i've never taken the time to sort out the exact years. There are some that are FINALLY making and selling very accurate pinstripe cloth now. Much better than the crap marshall has been using for their vintage reissue 'pinstripe' cabs.

  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member skeletor's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    the checkerboard changed to black in 75 in the UK. 79/80 in the US.

  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Member reswot's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Thanks guys... Anybody else have any more/different info?

    A couple of other stupid questions: Is salt & pepper the same thing as basketweave? When was the cane grill cloth used?

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member LSGoCards7's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by reswot View Post
    Is salt & pepper the same thing as basketweave?
    S&P fades to look brown which some refer to as basketweave.

    S&P:





    Faded S&P:

    Last edited by LSGoCards7; 12-07-09 at 06:49 PM. Reason: Correction
    Guitars: 2013 Gibson '59 Les Paul RI, Harmony H1260
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  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member LSGoCards7's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    BTW, I tried to re-size the pic, but it wouldn't work.
    Guitars: 2013 Gibson '59 Les Paul RI, Harmony H1260
    Amp: Carol-Ann OD3r with Port City 1x12 OS and EV 12L
    Pedals: Analogman BC183 Sunface, Clinch FX EP Pre, FX Engineering Mirage Comp, MXR Script Distortion+, Strymon Blue Sky, Wiz Pedals Model D

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member mistersnappy's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    FWIW, my '70 Basketweave slant cab is like the one in the pic: large logo with brown weave. Don't know if other cloth was available in '70 or if there is overlap.
    "That's what I love, man, to hear that backbeat popping, that damn bass plonkin' down. Jesus God!"-Duane Allman

  8. #8
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    That's not "brown basketweave". It's just faded.

    This is also faded basketweave:


    Here's "brown basketweave" it was/is called "cane"


  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member reswot's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    So.... when was the cane used?

  10. #10
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    late 60s

  11. #11

    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    The cane cloth was only ever used on the custom coloured cabs, to the best of my knowledge. Never on the regular tolex stuff.

    And yes, there is a widespread misunderstanding that there were different types of basketweave on the regular production cabs; "S&P" and "two-tone" basketweave. If you ever see something that's often referred to as "two-tone brown", like the one in LSGoCards7s post above, it's a faded version of the black and white/S&P type basketweave. I have a '70 stack which looks like this. When you remove the baffle and look around the edges which are not exposed to light, that cloth is as pure black & white/salt & pepper as any cloth you'll find. For some reason this seems to be the case very often with '70 cabs, whereas most '68 cabs I've seen have faded less. Maybe they just got some rolls that had a different dye which faded more over the years, but all those cabs started out as black & white/salt & pepper basketweave.

    And to go full circle, if you want to be technical about it, the "cane" cloth is in fact a basketweave type of cloth...and could also technically be referred to as "two-tone brown". But that would make too much sense, and people would be all confused... ;)

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member reswot's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Thanks, everyone. I'm trying to get a handle on this, as I'll be ordering a cab soon and want to get something that looks correct from 15 ft. away!

    So black cabs would have salt & pepper (which faded to brown) and red, purple, etc, would have cane?

  13. #13
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by shakti View Post
    ...if you want to be technical about it, the "cane" cloth is in fact a basketweave type of cloth...and could also technically be referred to as "two-tone brown". But that would make too much sense, and people would be all confused... ;)
    The cane cloth is the same material as the basketweave, but only has one color. It's also the same material as the early black.

    Oh, and yes, "salt & pepper" and "basketweave" was on black (dark green) cabs and red purple, etc. got cane.

    I got some and faded and tinted (aged) it to look right on my cabs:

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member mistersnappy's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Very interesting. Well, for purely aesthetic reasons, I'm glad the salt and pepper on mine faded.

    Course, I wouldn't mind if there were beer stains, no logo and missing-in-action tolex either...
    "That's what I love, man, to hear that backbeat popping, that damn bass plonkin' down. Jesus God!"-Duane Allman

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member skeletor's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    the easiest way to check (if its a bottom cabinet) is to take out one of the front caster holders from the top. you will see the side edge of the baffle board when you take it out, revealing the original colour of the grill cloth.

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth





    Can anybody elaborate on the timeline of these two grille cloths?

  17. #17

    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by David.247 View Post




    Can anybody elaborate on the timeline of these two grille cloths?
    Those are both reissue materials of the old 60's pinstripe material. The top one is a chinese made replica - used on modern handwired series bluesbreakers and 1974x etc (late 80's to present day?), and the bottom one is the more accurate and much more expensive eric collins replica. I think Marshall themselves have only used it on the 50th anniversary bluesbreaker and 50th anniversary 4x12 (released in 2012). Most people buy it to restore 1960's cabs.

    The original pinstripe material was used from around mid 1965 to early 1968.

  18. #18

    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by shakti View Post
    The cane cloth was only ever used on the custom coloured cabs, to the best of my knowledge. Never on the regular tolex stuff.

    And yes, there is a widespread misunderstanding that there were different types of basketweave on the regular production cabs; "S&P" and "two-tone" basketweave. If you ever see something that's often referred to as "two-tone brown", like the one in LSGoCards7s post above, it's a faded version of the black and white/S&P type basketweave. I have a '70 stack which looks like this. When you remove the baffle and look around the edges which are not exposed to light, that cloth is as pure black & white/salt & pepper as any cloth you'll find. For some reason this seems to be the case very often with '70 cabs, whereas most '68 cabs I've seen have faded less. Maybe they just got some rolls that had a different dye which faded more over the years, but all those cabs started out as black & white/salt & pepper basketweave.

    And to go full circle, if you want to be technical about it, the "cane" cloth is in fact a basketweave type of cloth...and could also technically be referred to as "two-tone brown". But that would make too much sense, and people would be all confused... ;)
    Brown two tone does exist, but it was only used on purple cabs to my knowledge, and it is possibly the same stuff used on some super early coffin logo cabs made around late 63 and early 64.


  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by Bygone_Tones View Post
    Those are both reissue materials of the old 60's pinstripe material. The top one is a chinese made replica - used on modern handwired series bluesbreakers and 1974x etc (late 80's to present day?), and the bottom one is the more accurate and much more expensive eric collins replica. I think Marshall themselves have only used it on the 50th anniversary bluesbreaker and 50th anniversary 4x12 (released in 2012). Most people buy it to restore 1960's cabs.

    The original pinstripe material was used from around mid 1965 to early 1968.
    So when you see pictures from the 70's I.E. Free, Led Zeppelin These are the original pinstripe?
    Last edited by David.247; 10-16-18 at 11:10 AM.

  20. #20

    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by David.247 View Post
    So when you see pictures from the 70's I.E. Free, Led Zeppelin These are the original pinstripe?
    Those are basketweave.

    Marshall used basketweave from early 1968 through to April 1971. The pinstripe was earlier - mid 1965 to early 1968.

    What you have to remember is the basketweave material was black and white originally, so it looks grey in old photos and film footage. That's how it looked originally. It only goes brown with age.

    Here is a piece removed from a cab. Notice how the edges and under the logo are still black and white where it hasn't been exposed to the elements:


  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by Bygone_Tones View Post
    Those are basketweave.

    Marshall used basketweave from early 1968 through to April 1971. The pinstripe was earlier - mid 1965 to early 1968.

    What you have to remember is the basketweave material was black and white originally, so it looks grey in old photos and film footage. That's how it looked originally. It only goes brown with age.

    Here is a piece removed from a cab. Notice how the edges and under the logo are still black and white where it hasn't been exposed to the elements:

    so modern Marshall grill cloth looks brownish is that because they use black and cream as opposed black and white?

  22. #22

    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Yes, its just for a slightly aged appearance.

    Some retailers do sell the white and black weave. There is also a brown and black if you want a really aged look.

    https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/To...OCK::7852.html

    https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/To...-cm::8275.html

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by Bygone_Tones View Post
    Yes, its just for a slightly aged appearance.

    Some retailers do sell the white and black weave. There is also a brown and black if you want a really aged look.

    https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/To...OCK::7852.html

    https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/To...-cm::8275.html
    No I really like the silver look. I bought some of the Eric Collins cloth a while ago but now it looks like i'll have to get black/white basket weave for when i finally get a Marshall half stack.Any body want to buy some EC cloth ? lol

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    And thanks for the help Bygone tones, much appreciated

  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member mistersnappy's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by Bygone_Tones View Post
    Those are basketweave.


    Here is a piece removed from a cab. Notice how the edges and under the logo are still black and white where it hasn't been exposed to the elements:

    Bingo. Looks exactly like my 1970 cab right down to the faded area where the Marshall logo used to be and the outline of the wooden crosspiece.

  26. #26
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by mistersnappy View Post
    Bingo. Looks exactly like my 1970 cab right down to the faded area where the Marshall logo used to be and the outline of the wooden crosspiece.
    Can you take a picture up close please of the original colour, looks more grey and white than black and white?

  27. #27
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by David.247 View Post
    Can you take a picture up close please of the original colour, looks more grey and white than black and white?

    Yes, it's a very dark grey NOT really black.


  28. #28
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    Yes, it's a very dark grey NOT really black.

    Fantastic, thank you Wilko

  29. #29
    Les Paul Forum Member BGReed2's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Great thread!! I am loving it!

    Here's a photo of the piece of grillcloth I "borrowed" from one of Jimi's cabinets in '68 in Santa Barbara, CA.



    Here's my 1965A cab from '84 (so I was told). This is from the dye lot batch that faded from black to brown.

    "Know tubes, know tone. No tubes, no tone"

  30. #30
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by j45 View Post
    This will be a "ROUGH" timeline as you requested. I haven't checked my Marshall book and just going by what I recall from the ones I've owned over the years. Pinstripe repaced the white cloth around 65/66, basketweave around '67, large checkerboard around 71/72 and the smaller checkerboard also appears sometime around 74, black around 79/80?. I could be off a year or so on some, this is strictly from past associations. i've never taken the time to sort out the exact years. There are some that are FINALLY making and selling very accurate pinstripe cloth now. Much better than the crap marshall has been using for their vintage reissue 'pinstripe' cabs.
    i have some 120 watt 1974/5 ish cabs with the black cloth. i call it the flat black cloth. those cabs flat rock, its all there with those. my plexi greenback cabs have better highs but man the crunch on those blackcloth cabs!!!



    'i know just enough to be a danger to myself'

  31. #31
    Les Paul Forum Member Gridlock's Avatar
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    I would like to replace the grill cloth (small checkered) on my 1979 Marshall JMP 2104. Could not find similar cloth online.

    New here and still have not figured out how to post photos.

  32. #32
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Educate me about Marshall grill cloth

    Quote Originally Posted by Gridlock View Post
    I would like to replace the grill cloth (small checkered) on my 1979 Marshall JMP 2104. Could not find similar cloth online.

    New here and still have not figured out how to post photos.
    I haven't seen that kind either. You could ask at the Marshall Forum. Maybe someone in there has been able to locate a replacement.

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