• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

How many Bursts are not accounted for?

BillyB

New member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
449
Just curious - obviously, a certain number were manufactured between '58 and '60 - are they mostly all 'known' or are a sizeable number still missing, still waiting to be unearthed? (I've checked my attic/loft and was sorely disappointed :hee )
 

Rev.WillieVK

Active member
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Messages
9,268
The WAG-estimate is that roughly half of all Bursts are known, leaving about 700 unaccounted for or still out there waiting to be discovered.
 

stephan_l

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Messages
582
From "Burst Serial". I guess, if Julio becomes aware of a "new" one, it will be listed.
But who knows how many old blues musicians are out there, never heard of the net, playing the shit out of an "unknown" burst every evening. I love these thoughts :salude


burstshipped1.jpg
 

Red Baron

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
6,774
There are also bursts owned by people who don't wish to have their serial number displayed on the internet, or have anyone but their closest friends made aware of their existence... I know of at least 4 that fit into that category and I'm sure there are other members who know of similar burst owners.
 

Ryan Givhan

New member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
3,220
i am the only guitarist in my family. and i keep hoping that a relative will find an old gibby in an attic one day and just give it to me because they dont know anyone else that will use it. lol. far fetched i know, but it would be amazing.
 

Greco

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Messages
2,181
A fair few were probably destroyed: Fire, earthquake, flood, etc. ...or modded into oblivion: the type of "luthier" that modded bad coconuts for example.
 

Mars Hall

Active member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
1,829
There are also bursts owned by people who don't wish to have their serial number displayed on the internet, or have anyone but their closest friends made aware of their existence... I know of at least 4 that fit into that category and I'm sure there are other members who know of similar burst owners.

If I had one, I'd tell everyone it's a Murphy R9.:rofl
 

BillyB

New member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
449
A fair few were probably destroyed: Fire, earthquake, flood, etc. ...or modded into oblivion: the type of "luthier" that modded bad coconuts for example.


Like your avatar?! Blimey, what's the story behind that Custom?

I know of one that was converted to double cutaway :rofl - I believe it was restored back to single cut though....
 

mingus

Active member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
4,243
i am the only guitarist in my family. and i keep hoping that a relative will find an old gibby in an attic one day and just give it to me because they dont know anyone else that will use it. lol. far fetched i know, but it would be amazing.

What's amazing is that Ganzler still thinks that one day he'll eat a bowl of fruit and shit a fruit salad!

Like your avatar?! Blimey, what's the story behind that Custom?

I know of one that was converted to double cutaway :rofl - I believe it was restored back to single cut though....

The infamous double-cutaway burst is the one referred to as "Bad Coconuts".
 

BillyB

New member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
449
What's amazing is that Ganzler still thinks that one day he'll eat a bowl of fruit and shit a fruit salad!



The infamous double-cutaway burst is the one referred to as "Bad Coconuts".


Yeah - I know the Luthier who did it too - and put it back :wah
 

GeetarGoul

Active member
Joined
Jul 25, 2001
Messages
5,044
I would guess that at least 25% are lost to fire/earthquake/tornado/huhrricanes etc. What do you guys guess?
 

zorglub!

Burst Detective!
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
5,230
If we take the ones in burstserial as an example, and specifically the ones from '59 (as '58 and '60 shipping totals include goldtops and SGs) we can see 52% of them accounted for. I usually wonder where are the rest and how I could gain access to them.

From a number of conversations along the years with many Burst owners I have observed that some of the non-dealers big names do not like to share info on some of their most beloved guitars. So there you have a significant number of non-public Bursts (or at least not to be included in any registry).

Then there are some markets, like Europe or Japan, with Bursts owners who might not be as involved into the Vintage market as the ones in America. Or specific countries where Vintage is a small market with a few number of people involved. Even countries where their culture makes them be quite privvy about expensive items. All of them add up to a number of guitars that have not been circulated, and probably won't be for quite some time.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
There are also bursts owned by people who don't wish to have their serial number displayed on the internet, or have anyone but their closest friends made aware of their existence... I know of at least 4 that fit into that category and I'm sure there are other members who know of similar burst owners.

Exactly! I also know of several that are "secret" and the owners wish them to be this way.
So, when is a Burst "accounted for"? When one or more people know of its existence, or the general public? :hmm

I think most have been accounted for.:jim
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Are all the Ziff bursts accounted for?

I think if someone as astute as Dirk owns one [or more], he knows it, and therefore, it is accounted for. :ganz


Seriously, how is it possible for a serious Burst collector to have a Burst and it not be considerd as "accounted for"?
Which gets back to my question: Just exactly when is a Burst considered "accounted for"? :)
 

Electric Lloyd

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
3,500
I think what the original question of "accounted for" pertains to a method of cataloging them in some way & comparing them to shipping totals (if shipping totals exist). What we want to know is, of how many shipped, what number is accounted for & acknowleged as a valuable 'Burst by their owners?
 

E.Fisher

New member
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
388
A fair few were probably destroyed: Fire, earthquake, flood, etc. ...or modded into oblivion: the type of "luthier" that modded bad coconuts for example.

Man you are being nice calling that man a luthier.....:hee
 

DANELECTRO

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Messages
6,318
I think if someone as astute as Dirk owns one [or more], he knows it, and therefore, it is accounted for. :ganz


Seriously, how is it possible for a serious Burst collector to have a Burst and it not be considerd as "accounted for"?
Which gets back to my question: Just exactly when is a Burst considered "accounted for"? :)

There are 31 of Dirks 'Bursts pictured in BOTB. Rumors have it that he owns around 200, would seems crazy but considering his wealth is very plausable. If this is the case, that's another 169 that are actually accounted for, however, for those people outside of Dirks circle, would fall into the "unnccounted for" category.

Julio's list accounts for those with known serial numbers, but there are a lot of known Bursts for which the serial numbers are unknown and so they aren't included in the percentage stats. ie Jimmy Page's burst, Eddie Van Halen's burst, Jeff Becks renecked Burst, etc.
 

Beano Geno

Active member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
3,631
IMHO, the vast majority of bursts, still in existence, have been discovered. By that, I mean that I believe the number of bursts sitting completely unknown in somebodies dead grandpa's attic or old warehouse/storeroom, etc. is very, very small. Not everybody cares to make their burst ownership known to the general public or internet forum groups.
 
Top