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tremolo springs and tone?

vintage58

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
3,958
What specific effects do: (a) the number of tremolo springs; and (b) the tension of the springs, have upon a guitar's sound?

The reason I ask is, a few months back I got a guitar with a Fender-style tremolo. I've never really used a tremolo (or played very many guitars that have one), and this new guitar's factory setup was such that the guitar has almost like a built-in "natural" reverb sound, that I'm guessing comes from the tremolo springs. The last Stratocaster I played at any length was a while ago, and I was using .012's on it, with five tremolo springs adjusted to maximum tension. I never used the tremolo arm on that guitar, and needless to say, given the string gauge and the spring adjustment, I didn't get too much of a springy, reverberant sound from that guitar.

Anyway, having heard this quasi-reverb effect on this new guitar I got a few months ago, I really like it. And being the guitar psycho that I am, about a week ago I got a second one of the same make/model of guitar, and it has the same tremolo system. But here's the thing—even though the new guitar has the same number of tremolo springs as the guitar from a few months back, this new one is really quiet, it gets not even a hint of the reverberant sound that I like so much on the first guitar.

Now, I realize that a lot of guitarists are hell-bent on getting their tremolo springs to make less noise, but I am actually interested in the opposite—i.e., how do I get the tremolo on this new guitar to get that reverb-y sound? For example, would fewer tremolo springs make the guitar sound more like that? Or is there some spring-tension adjustment that could be made (loosening the springs, perhaps?) that would give the guitar the desired metallic, echoey sound?

Any info would be helpful, thanks. :)
.
 

reswot

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Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,295
The springs have tremendous effect on the tone. I, too, think it's a natural reverb, or something. That's why, IMO, a hardtail strat never sounds or feels quite like a "real" strat (I think it's much better to block a trem strat and remove the arm if one doesn't actually want the trem).

As far as number/type of springs, I don't know. I remember reading a quote in which Eric Johnson said something like: Many times I've changed the springs on my trems and went running back for the old ones because I lost my tone. My thought was, "Who the hell changes the springs, anyway?"

Of course, that's Eric Johnson and I think he's full of shit about some of the things he claims to hear a difference in....

This will probably get moved soon, though, as the thread has nothing to do with Les Pauls...
 

Don

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Dec 1, 2001
Messages
5,732
I'd remove a spring and adjust the claw to the bridge height that you like and see how it sounds.
 

wooderson

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Jan 13, 2008
Messages
798
I have had some luck mixing and matching different sets of trem springs.

n.b. I like hardtail Strats as well, although they definitely sound different from trem models.
 

StSpider

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Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Messages
2,148
I like to set a modern strat tremolo (2 posts) parallel to the top of the body but raised from it a little, so that I can both do a fast vibrato by depressing the bridge with the palm of the hand and it gives that airy, reverby tone I think you were talking about.

It does sound very different if the bridge sits in contact with the body.
 

maestrovert

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Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
229
Just mho, so ymmv, 'k ?

that "natural reverb" means the springs are robbing energy and tone from the strings.

there's a reason both Jimi and Stevie Ray used 5 springs screwed down tight....
 

StSpider

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Aug 24, 2002
Messages
2,148
It's definitely robbing something, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's robbing "tone".

The tone is definitely fatter and richer with the tremolo pressed on top of the body, still, to each his own. If we all were after fat tones we'd all be playing humbuckers, we wouldn't spend hours discussing the "Peter Green Mod" and so on..
 

Monroe

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Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,139
Those guys used 5 springs and screwed down tight because the vintage 6 screw trems are notorious for not returning to pitch. The floated bridge is IMHO a large part of the "strat tone". The modern two post trem works a lot better, (ask Jeff beck). Yes, the springs may be robbing a bit of sustain and certain frequencies, but that's what gives a lot of the quacky bell-like quality. The trick is to use just enough spring to keep the plate from lifting a lot when doing double stops, etc.
 
B

bharat.k

Guest
One thing that contributes to the "springy reverb" sound of Strats is that the springs are very close to the back two pickups. Some springs are very magnetic and will give more of this effect, and others (stainless) aren't so magnetic. If the spring is too stiff, it won't vibrate either.The pickups also have a large effect and having steel baseplates will lessen the effect. Some of the old springs are very magnetic and very resonant.
 

59Vampire

Active member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
4,223
I stuck three of these springs in the back of my lester and it shorted out. I think they have a negative effect on the tone of my guitar.

OK OK On my number one strat, I hand assembled with a thin skin fender nitro body, japanese fender neck, callaham bridge and saddle/block and fender 54 pups, i have 4 springs 2 on each side. with the claw set about 33/64ths of an inch off the mounting area and the bridge almost flat giving me a slight amount to pull up. The springs ring and the vibrations when i put my ear to them are awesome. It hink you need to play around.
 

zombiwoof

Active member
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,565
Those guys used 5 springs and screwed down tight because the vintage 6 screw trems are notorious for not returning to pitch. The floated bridge is IMHO a large part of the "strat tone". The modern two post trem works a lot better, (ask Jeff beck). Yes, the springs may be robbing a bit of sustain and certain frequencies, but that's what gives a lot of the quacky bell-like quality. The trick is to use just enough spring to keep the plate from lifting a lot when doing double stops, etc.

Hendrix's trem was floating, I often saw him pull up on it.

Al
 

Edward

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
1,255
What specific effects do: (a) the number of tremolo springs; and (b) the tension of the springs, have upon a guitar's sound?

The reason I ask is, a few months back I got a guitar with a Fender-style tremolo. I've never really used a tremolo (or played very many guitars that have one), and this new guitar's factory setup was such that the guitar has almost like a built-in "natural" reverb sound, that I'm guessing comes from the tremolo springs. The last Stratocaster I played at any length was a while ago, and I was using .012's on it, with five tremolo springs adjusted to maximum tension. I never used the tremolo arm on that guitar, and needless to say, given the string gauge and the spring adjustment, I didn't get too much of a springy, reverberant sound from that guitar.

Anyway, having heard this quasi-reverb effect on this new guitar I got a few months ago, I really like it. And being the guitar psycho that I am, about a week ago I got a second one of the same make/model of guitar, and it has the same tremolo system. But here's the thing—even though the new guitar has the same number of tremolo springs as the guitar from a few months back, this new one is really quiet, it gets not even a hint of the reverberant sound that I like so much on the first guitar.

Now, I realize that a lot of guitarists are hell-bent on getting their tremolo springs to make less noise, but I am actually interested in the opposite—i.e., how do I get the tremolo on this new guitar to get that reverb-y sound? For example, would fewer tremolo springs make the guitar sound more like that? Or is there some spring-tension adjustment that could be made (loosening the springs, perhaps?) that would give the guitar the desired metallic, echoey sound?

Any info would be helpful, thanks. :)
.

You basically have your answer in your question.

Gauge has lots to do with "that" tone you're looking for ...experiment and let your ears have the final say (I know I've gone from 9s to 11s, and now settled to 10s on one and 11s on another).

Gauge and number of springs (natch :) ) work together for "that" tone. Try both extremes: the claw screwed deeper into the body with fewer, or screwed farther out with more springs. Play clean with good volume and listen.

For what you're looking for, try as many springs as will allow while floating it, with the claw out as far as is prudent. Lots of give/take here. Again, let your ears be your guide.

And of course, the difference you may be getting between each of your strats may simply be due to the variance in body wood resonance ...nothing you could do about that short of swapping bods.

As you know, the results you achieve are highly subjective so don't buy into any one school of thought as "well that's how it's done ya know..." FWIW, I prefer my strat trems with all springs in, claw in 100%, but no block in the cavity (6-screw bridge on both) ...but that's just me as I just don't know how to use a trem tastefully anyhow! Yet the classic floating trem is a wonderful thing and lovely tone ... but for my style, it's a no-go. :)

Edward
 

bluesjuke

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Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
7,007
Each spring has 20% Mojo so you need all 5 to get the satisfying 100%.
 

G-Point

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Jan 12, 2020
Messages
1
One thing that contributes to the "springy reverb" sound of Strats is that the springs are very close to the back two pickups. Some springs are very magnetic and will give more of this effect, and others (stainless) aren't so magnetic. If the spring is too stiff, it won't vibrate either.The pickups also have a large effect and having steel baseplates will lessen the effect. Some of the old springs are very magnetic and very resonant.

Agree. Most pickups have magnetic poles (Strat type single coil pickups) and/or pole screw ends (humbuckers) - sensitive from rear side too. And most case there is not any magnetic shields under the pickups. Some pickups have rear steel coil screws working like magnetic poles too. Such case you have 6/7 strings + 3/4/5 springs sounding mix at the output !!! Any magnetic material parts located close to the pickups are affecting sound/tone, but if there are moving magnetic parts - it provides not only tone changes but additional signal too. Most part of noise signal provide springs, but claw and all the bridge are a little bit vibrating too. My recommendation is to use as minimal as possible magnetic parts close to pickups (use brass, stainless steel, bronze, copper, aluminium, titanium, plastic etc.). Less corrosion at once. Tremolo (Vibrato !!!) springs is special question because some users like this complex noise. But if you do not like it - use non magnetic springs and/or magnetic shield under pickups. Damping springs with foam pieces reduces higher frequencies of spring noise, but do it against rear cover (not from inside of springs /it is not really working/ or against body /you are damping body at once!/).
 
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