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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member dlmorley's Avatar
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    ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Having been after an ES-330 for a while, I may have the opportunity to get a 60's Casino.
    Any opinions as to how the 2 guitars might compare? I know they are basically the same guitar, but I have heard that the Epi has a different top (3 ply on the epi instead of 5 ply on the ES?)
    Anything else to consider?? Someone with experience of both compare build quality and of most importance, sound?
    Thanks
    David

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    There are so many production anomalies on Gibson products from this period that any generalizations are probably of limited value. IMO as with any musical instrument purchase, an in hand inspection is necessary unless you are just buying it for raw materials to do a project. IMO, most of the Epiphone labeled instruments from this period are at least as good or better than the Gibson labeled ones.

  3. #3
    Troels
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
    Having been after an ES-330 for a while, I may have the opportunity to get a 60's Casino.
    Any opinions as to how the 2 guitars might compare? I know they are basically the same guitar, but I have heard that the Epi has a different top (3 ply on the epi instead of 5 ply on the ES?)
    Anything else to consider?? Someone with experience of both compare build quality and of most importance, sound?
    Thanks
    David
    Epi had five layers (not ES) maple/birch/maple/birch/maple whereas ES-330 had four (not three like todays 335) in the early 60s..: Maple/maple(grains same direction lengthwise)/something (maple, poplar, birch or even mahogany)/maple. Except for the laminates and peghead style they were all the same construction and hardware. The most important thing to look after (next to neck angle, delamitations and lose parts) is top sinking. The string pull on a Casino/Epi (0.10 to 0.46) produce a downforce on the bridge equivalent to about 28 lbs and over the years this together with environmental influences such as temperature and humidity may cause the top to think - sometimes quite a bit.

  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Member dlmorley's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Thanks for the info!
    Yes Troels. Sounds wise to check the top...

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member kerryboy's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by Troels View Post
    Epi had five layers (not ES) maple/birch/maple/birch/maple whereas ES-330 had four (not three like todays 335) in the early 60s..: Maple/maple(grains same direction lengthwise)/something (maple, poplar, birch or even mahogany)/maple. Except for the laminates and peghead style they were all the same construction and hardware. The most important thing to look after (next to neck angle, delamitations and lose parts) is top sinking. The string pull on a Casino/Epi (0.10 to 0.46) produce a downforce on the bridge equivalent to about 28 lbs and over the years this together with environmental influences such as temperature and humidity may cause the top to think - sometimes quite a bit.
    It never fails to amaze me of the knowledge some of you guys have. Brilliant

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    As noted, the Epi quality is as good or better than similar vintage Gibsons...based on my '64 Royal Tan Casino, '62 blonde Sheraton and '63 Royal Tan Riviera...

  7. #7
    Administrator MikeSlub's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by kerryboy View Post
    It never fails to amaze me of the knowledge some of you guys have. Brilliant
    Yup, Troels is arguably the quintessential expert in ES-330s and Casinos! He uses a dental mirror to inspect the inside of the guitar body and electronics inch-by-inch --- gets my vote!
    Mike Slubowski

    * "Gibson guitars are like potato chips - you can't have just one!"

    * "So many Gibsons to love, so little time..."

  8. #8
    Troels
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSlub View Post
    Yup, Troels is arguably the quintessential expert in ES-330s and Casinos! He uses a dental mirror to inspect the inside of the guitar body and electronics inch-by-inch --- gets my vote!
    I wouldn't hesitate to call myself an ES-330 cheerleader...
    Last edited by Troels; 10-22-08 at 01:54 AM.

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by Troels View Post
    I wouldn't hesitate to call myself an ES-330 cheerleader...
    Oh no, I'm fighting off images of you with pom poms and a short skirt!!!!

  10. #10
    Troels
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by ES Blonde View Post
    Oh no, I'm fighting off images of you with pom poms and a short skirt!!!!
    An excellent picture to show children who refuse to sleep or eat their vegetables They'll obey immediately!

  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member dlmorley's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    I think this thread needs

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member tooold's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
    Having been after an ES-330 for a while, I may have the opportunity to get a 60's Casino.
    Any opinions as to how the 2 guitars might compare? I know they are basically the same guitar, but I have heard that the Epi has a different top (3 ply on the epi instead of 5 ply on the ES?)
    Anything else to consider?? Someone with experience of both compare build quality and of most importance, sound?
    Thanks
    David
    As a means of getting the conversation off the hypnotizing subject of Troels in a short skirt , I think the only question you need to ask regarding sound is:

    Do you like the Beatles?

  13. #13
    Administrator MikeSlub's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
    I think this thread needs
    Okay, you twisted my arm.....

    Mike Slubowski

    * "Gibson guitars are like potato chips - you can't have just one!"

    * "So many Gibsons to love, so little time..."

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member tooold's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSlub View Post
    Okay, you twisted my arm.....
    It's embarrassing how you make them jump through so many hoops before you post that photo, Mike...

    I probably should know better than to ask, but is the Bigsby on the Argentine Grey 330 factory? Curious because it has the screw mounts. I have an old, but non-factory, one on my 330 and it's a floater...

  15. #15
    Troels
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSlub View Post
    Okay, you twisted my arm.....


    Arrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh...... AAAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member dlmorley's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by tooold View Post
    As a means of getting the conversation off the hypnotizing subject of Troels in a short skirt , I think the only question you need to ask regarding sound is:

    Do you like the Beatles?
    Well, yes but it has more to do with having played 330 and loving the feel and sound
    I am trading one of my 2 Sid Poole lp's and have been offered a casino. No details yet though.

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member tooold's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
    Well, yes but it has more to do with having played 330 and loving the feel and sound
    I am trading one of my 2 Sid Poole lp's and have been offered a casino. No details yet though.
    Got it. Sounded like you were looking for examples of how Casino's sounded, so there are a few there... although you have to factor in the Vox thing...

  18. #18
    Troels
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by tooold View Post
    As a means of getting the conversation off the hypnotizing subject of Troels in a short skirt , I think the only question you need to ask regarding sound is:

    Do you like the Beatles?
    I love The Beatles... ask me and I play any solo or chord progression from any Beatles song (even the "And your Bird Can thing" harmonized solo) - and I'm not joking... I also play the non-Lennon-McCartney recordings from the early days. We do play a lot of Beatles stuff in our rock'n'roll trio: Guitar, bass and drums and three voices. The audiences love it.

    I'm still finding new things listening to the records. Sometimes I take a CD with Beatles and then listen to it - instrument by instrument: First for instance only lead guitar, then only rythm guitar, then bass and the song - even drums. It's a very interesting way to listen to records.

    Most Beatles songs are recorded with a ground track of three or four instruments and cue song - and then some overdubs (I mean these tracks are what ends up on the final record). I do record like that myself all the time - and it's a great way to do it. Sometimes you even don't need dubs - except the human voices.

    You hear new things all the time - a clack from a toggle switch, a scratching pick, a sticky finger on the string - everything...
    20 minutes ago I did listen to "Abbey Road" the way I described. It's an AMAZING record. There are tons of electric lead guitar arpeggios - it SO good! It's advanced and simple at the same time... I'm not superstitious at all... but I do think Beatles got a touch from somewhere we don't know of

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member tooold's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Just the intro to "I Feel Fine" works fine for me...

  20. #20
    Troels
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by tooold View Post
    Just the intro to "I Feel Fine" works fine for me...
    That's played inside a barre chord structure with a (very) streched pinky... to get to the sixth tone in the scale

  21. #21
    Administrator MikeSlub's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by tooold View Post
    I probably should know better than to ask, but is the Bigsby on the Argentine Grey 330 factory? Curious because it has the screw mounts. I have an old, but non-factory, one on my 330 and it's a floater...
    I honestly don't know. I bought that guitar from Big Jim, another LPFer.
    Mike Slubowski

    * "Gibson guitars are like potato chips - you can't have just one!"

    * "So many Gibsons to love, so little time..."

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by Troels View Post
    That's played inside a barre chord structure with a (very) streched pinky... to get to the sixth tone in the scale
    Hmmmm a 6th?? I don't find a sixth there. I sustain the 1 on the 6th sixth string and the flatted 7th following the octave through the whole phrase for complexity. So, I use a modified Barre, you could say....
    second finger on the sixth string, third finger on the flatted 7th on the 4th string....the pinky comes off the octave on the 4th string to open up the flatted 7th. The pinky then grabs the 4th(11), the 3rd(10) and opens up for the 2nd(9) on the 3rd string.
    Where do you find a 6th from the scale? AM I in error?
    And...my favorite Casino/ES-330 that I have played is a mid-60's Epi Casino a friend has. IT is a magic guitar when compared to its brethren that I have played.
    Mike, that is a stable you have there! Beautiful!
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  23. #23
    Formerly fishnose
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by tooold View Post
    I probably should know better than to ask, but is the Bigsby on the Argentine Grey 330 factory? Curious because it has the screw mounts. I have an old, but non-factory, one on my 330 and it's a floater...
    I must ask you - since you have the 'floater' Bigs. It's a lot shorter than the screw mounter, and of course not as 'solid' (since it's a floater ) - do you have any kind of tuning issues with that guitar?

    The floater Bigs is even shorter than a trapeze.....

    /GV

    Around Louisiana way
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    C: I thought to myself, "a little fermented curd will do the trick," so, I curtailed my Walpoling activites, sallied forth,
    and infiltrated your place of purveyance to negotiate the vending of some cheesy comestibles!
    O: Come again?
    C: I want to buy some cheese.

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  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    So what do you do Troels if the top has "sunk?" Put in a bridge post?

    Seems that if these guitars are so desirable that a repair should be possible.

  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member tooold's Avatar
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by guitarvoodoo View Post
    I must ask you - since you have the 'floater' Bigs. It's a lot shorter than the screw mounter, and of course not as 'solid' (since it's a floater ) - do you have any kind of tuning issues with that guitar?

    The floater Bigs is even shorter than a trapeze.....

    /GV
    No more than you would with any Bigsby... lots of guitars used and use them.

  26. #26
    Troels
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    Re: ES-330 VS Epiphone Casino

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertdawg View Post
    So what do you do Troels if the top has "sunk?" Put in a bridge post?

    Seems that if these guitars are so desirable that a repair should be possible.
    Yes... posts. That solves the problems once and for all.

    For all of you with interests in physics in relation to here's an interesting place and something to learn: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=dk

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