Soldering instructions?

Yunpac · Aug 28, 2008

modoc_333 said:
generally ugly work has problems that show up over time... you end up with cracked solder joints, cold joints, etc.
pretty work generally functions. ugly work generally has long term (or short term) problems. this isn't 100% of the time, but more times than not.

are you saying you wouldn't care if Gibsons looked like they were done by a 5 year old?

as long as the controls all worked properly- I could care less! I play guitar. I don't sit around with my backplates off admiring the tidyness of the wiring.

Amps may be a different story. I still wouldn't sit and admire the clean soldering, but It's more important for the health and function of the amp to do a good job.

The main thing that bugged me about the post was that -a lot of people post stuff around here like "Gee, I hope I get my guitar back soon. My local tech has had it for a week! I'm having him install my new p'up rings and a pickguard!"

So lame. There are very few things on a guitar that need to be done by a tech. All of these parts are direct replacements - they only go on one way! They go on the same way that you just took the old part off!

People are too afraid that they are going to break something.

modoc_333 · Aug 28, 2008

i agree that people could learn to do a lot of it. my only suggestion was that he have someone show him in person, and to practice before digging into his guitar.
also, my comments had nothing to do with staring at how pretty it is. ugly work one day has to be fixed again. clean work generally doesn't. i used to pay the bills doing it... i've seen quite a few. the clean ones work, the others don't. (in the long run).
it pays to learn to do it right.

Yunpac · Aug 28, 2008

no, no, there was nothing wrong with what you posted. The guy asked for help/advice and you gave it to him.

I was just in a smart ass type of mood at the time.

You are right. If you plan to be doing a lot of soldering in the future (like building an amp kit(s)) it would be helpfulll to have someone with some experience show you a few things - save you the trial and error time, avoid some common pitfalls, etc.

It was just the "soldering pots n caps" and the word "apprenticeship" together that caught me off guard!:hee

DirtyRobber · Aug 28, 2008

prakashananda said:
I think the thing that gets me is getting the big parts like pots (back of) hot enough to tin with a 40 watter - is that even possible - without overheating the pot.

Pots have to be very clean. I have not soldered many guitar components, but I used to literally solder full time at an electronics plant.

The OP should head down to a local Radio-Shack and just grab some cheap resistors and a little PCB and practice. Build-Your-Own-Clone (or... NAMBLA

) sell a kit I think they call the "Confidence Builder" for ten or fifteen dollars. It may even be free with a kit.

Gold Tone · Aug 28, 2008

modoc_333 said:
did you buy a solder gun, or a pencil style iron? the pencil is what you need. the gun is overkill and you will most likely cook your parts anyway.

I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

For little parts like IC's and smaller on a circuit board you MUST use a low watt pen or you WILL fry components.

For comparatively MASSIVE parts inside of a clunky guitar like large pots, huge caps, thick wire (you are NOT soldering to tiny little traces on a PCB) you SHOULD use a high watt gun. 100 - 140 watt guns are best.

WHY?

For a little low watt pen to heat the componet (ie the back of the pot) hot enough to have the solder flow onto it and form a nice connection (rather than a cold solder joint - which I see A LOT of) you need to cook that pot for QUITE some time. Several minutes usually and even then you don't have a nice clean, flowing, solder joint.

With the high watt gun you are zapping the component for seconds or not even that long. You get in quick, get a gorgeous solder connection, and no risk of being there too long and cooking your components.

Leave the low watt pens for the microscopic parts.

And remember NO ACID FLUX!! Lightly brush what you will be soldering with rosing flux and use rosin core solder.

prakashananda · Aug 29, 2008

Gold Tone said:
I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

For little parts like IC's and smaller on a circuit board you MUST use a low watt pen or you WILL fry components.

For comparatively MASSIVE parts inside of a clunky guitar like large pots, huge caps, thick wire (you are NOT soldering to tiny little traces on a PCB) you SHOULD use a high watt gun. 100 - 140 watt guns are best.

WHY?

For a little low watt pen to heat the componet (ie the back of the pot) hot enough to have the solder flow onto it and form a nice connection (rather than a cold solder joint - which I see A LOT of) you need to cook that pot for QUITE some time. Several minutes usually and even then you don't have a nice clean, flowing, solder joint.

With the high watt gun you are zapping the component for seconds or not even that long. You get in quick, get a gorgeous solder connection, and no risk of being there too long and cooking your components.

Leave the low watt pens for the microscopic parts.

And remember NO ACID FLUX!! Lightly brush what you will be soldering with rosing flux and use rosin core solder.

DUDE! This is really helpful. I have not heard this before - always heard just use a 40 watter - and my results are as you described when it comes to pots - so I don't do that anymore. The ones from RS are pretinned anyway.What is rosing flux and what do you mean about brushing it lightly first? Got a recommendation for an iron - or just go to radio shack? 140 watts or is 100 enough? I like the part about zapping it for seconds, that's the same way I'm used to dealing with small components and a 40 watt iron. That's when you can do decent work instead of wondering if the solder is ever going to melt on the part. Cool. :dude:

Gold Tone · Aug 29, 2008

Just your regular Weller double watt 100/140 works great. I have a fancy Hakko adjustable wattage iron but tend to favot the basic Weller gun. It just heats up so nicely!

Tinning is a routine you should get into, especially on things like stranded wire.

Rosin core solder works best.

Rosin flux paste or liquid "LIGHTLY" brushed on the spot you are going to solder will help the solder wick into the hot spot and get a really good bite on the part as well as leaving a nice shiney solder joint.

modoc_333 · Aug 29, 2008

i like something like this:

http://www.drillspot.com/products/346487/Weller_WESD51_Soldering_Station

the gun can be too large (physically) for some applications. wiring a LP Jr with a large gun can easily result in burns to the wood. also, i have never cooked a pot using a unit like i linked to above. it still only takes a second to get it hot enough.
take into account the fact that he is a novice..... the super high heat and larger size is going to make it easier for him to do damage.
it's like using a 10 guage to shoot quail. sure, it will work and you won't wing birds..... or you could just learn to shoot better. you don't need a 10 guage for birds, or a .44mag for self defense. you also don't need a big soldering gun for a guitar.
grounding to a large amp chassis is another story though... that's where you need the 140 watt gun!

Gold Tone · Aug 29, 2008

I agree.

BE CAREFUL with the big gun as they do get where you don't want them to more easily. I learned that a few years ago!

I bet most people burn the black insulating rubber/vinyl on the braided wire going to the jack more than anything else in that compartment.

jpap · Aug 29, 2008

Gold Tone said:
I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

For little parts like IC's and smaller on a circuit board you MUST use a low watt pen or you WILL fry components.

For comparatively MASSIVE parts inside of a clunky guitar like large pots, huge caps, thick wire (you are NOT soldering to tiny little traces on a PCB) you SHOULD use a high watt gun. 100 - 140 watt guns are best.

WHY?

For a little low watt pen to heat the componet (ie the back of the pot) hot enough to have the solder flow onto it and form a nice connection (rather than a cold solder joint - which I see A LOT of) you need to cook that pot for QUITE some time. Several minutes usually and even then you don't have a nice clean, flowing, solder joint.

With the high watt gun you are zapping the component for seconds or not even that long. You get in quick, get a gorgeous solder connection, and no risk of being there too long and cooking your components.

Leave the low watt pens for the microscopic parts.

And remember NO ACID FLUX!! Lightly brush what you will be soldering with rosing flux and use rosin core solder.

+100000
That's the correct way, at least that's how I learned it in the Siemens Labs during my study years in the 80's. I was using a standard watter for everything up to then (someone showed me also, but...the wrong way!), and that's why cold joints frequently appeared. :hmm
Since then, I've always used a low watter for pins, vol. and tone pot connections, etc. and a higher watter for greater surface solderings (grounding the pot housing, grounding pups on pots, etc.). And that's how I do today: ALWAYS two irons running on the workbench..:jim
And I fully agree on modoc, a correct solder work can bee SEEN. If it's not clear/shiny, it's 99% not stable for long term (cold joint, breakable, etc.). In fact, a dull solder joint means that the heat either wasn't provided homogeneously to the joint (too fast or too slow) or/and didn't escape correct from the joint (one part was cooling up, while another was still melthot) = porous surface between the different materials = breakable sooner or later... Most of the guitar joints are either under the pickguard or the back cover, and indeed, they are somehow protected, but that's not enough to turn a bad solder joint to a good one...

Ham_Fist · Aug 29, 2008

Get a "helping hand" tool. Radio Shack has them, or you can order them from just about anywhere that sells DIY electronics stuff, hobby stores etc...

As far as the wattage of the iron, I use a 25w Weller with a chisel tip to solder to the back of pots. It does fine. I have a 90 watt or something Weller that I haven't touched in forever. When building pedals, I just use a cheapo 10 watt iron w/pencil tip.

Ham_Fist · Aug 29, 2008

Oh, and buy a couple of extra pots, and some extra braided wire to practice on. That's the hardest part... soldering the braid to the pots. Clean the back of the pots with acetone (fingernail polish remover) first. For some reason, some pots seem to take solder better than others. The last CTS's I used were a breeze. I had some Alphas for an amp project, and they seemed to have some sort of anti-solder force field on them.

But... pots are fairly cheap. Buy a couple of extras, and practice. And do as much work as you can OUTSIDE of the control cavity.

modoc_333 · Aug 30, 2008

Ham Fist said something else i forgot! the tip really matters. a chisel tip will transfer a lot more heat, a lotter quicker, than the tiny pointed tip that comes on it. get a chisel tip.

Soldering instructions?

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