Speaker Volume?

Prof. Potts · Jul 15, 2008

Which speaker would have a lower volume using the same amp:

1. Celestion Blue at 15w, sensitivity of 100dB
2. Heritage G12M at 20w, sensitivity of 96dB

This is for a 1x12 cab to be used at home only so I need the lowest volume possible. The amps would are small, 5-15 watts although I may be looking for a Hiwatt DR504:2zone with the ultimate attenuator. I know they are very different sounding speakers but they work well for my example. I have read that generally the lower the dB the quieter the speaker but in this case the lower dB speaker is a higher wattage speaker. My assumption would be that the wattage of the speaker is more of a power handling indication and the dB is more reflective of the output. I know there are many options regarding amp volume but what I'm trying to figure out is the speaker relationship in the equation. Thanks in advance.

tfrost33 · Jul 15, 2008

I am no expert but my understanding is the volume decrease occurs as the dB's decrease. A four dB decrease should be quite noticeable.

Wilko · Jul 15, 2008

dBs are "volume" or SPL.

The heritage will have less "volume" as it is 4 dB quieter at the efficiency rating.

Celestion makes at least 3 G12M speakers. I'm pretty sure they have 3 different efficiency ratings. IIRC, the Heritage is 100dB.

Note: I looked it up. The Heritage G12M is 96dB, the CLassic G12M is 98dB

thin sissy · Jul 15, 2008

Yeah, the alnico blue can't handle as much power, but it will make the amp sound louder than when used with a greenback.

Prof. Potts · Jul 16, 2008

Thanks for the answers, that was exactly what I needed to know.

ES Blonde · Jul 16, 2008

At any decent volume, a 3dB increase or decrease is noticable to the human ear. 10dB (depending on how loud i.e. really loud) would equate to a doubling or halving of the volume either way. Due to the logrithmic nature of our ears/hearing the effects are percieved slightly differently at say talking levels to In the bell of a trumpet levels, but dBs do a damn good job of leveling it out for the most part.

In your example, the 4dB would be noticable. Depending on your amplifier, the speaker coil impedence might also make a difference. i.e. some amps deliver more power at 16 Ohm than at 8 Ohm. I seem to remeber the old marshall plexi being most efficient at 16, then 4 then 8 Ohm in that order. Other amps may or may not follow suit.

HTH

Ephlat · Jul 16, 2008

Perhaps stating the obvious, but just to address the other part of the original question,my understanding is that the wattage rating of a speaker is only a measure of how much power input it can safely handle, not how much power/sound it puts out.

Wilko · Jul 16, 2008

Ephlat said:
Perhaps stating the obvious, but just to address the other part of the original question,my understanding is that the wattage rating of a speaker is only a measure of how much power input it can safely handle, not how much power/sound it puts out.

Right. Good to remind folks.

sickboy79 · Jul 16, 2008

Wilko said:
Right. Good to remind folks.

Exactly - it's the sensitivity that means anything for actual volume.

ES Blonde · Jul 17, 2008

Ephlat said:
Perhaps stating the obvious, but just to address the other part of the original question,my understanding is that the wattage rating of a speaker is only a measure of how much power input it can safely handle, not how much power/sound it puts out.

Yes, think of the wattage like in a light bulb generating heat, too much wattage input causes the voice coil to melt and unravel creating a phsical break to occure. In a worse case scenario, the voice coil might suddenly jump out of the gap. So the rating of 20W RMS means it will handle 20W of energy from pink noise for an hour without failure.

I'm told that re-coners can tell by looking at a loudspeaker, what it was that made it fail.

Adwex · Jul 17, 2008

Speakers don't "put out" power, they consume it.

Wilko · Jul 17, 2008

Adwex said:
Speakers don't "put out" power, they consume it.

Ok, let's examine that thought.

A speaker has a coil in a magnetic field. A coil/magnet combo set into motion generates electricity.

so, while a speaker is "consuming" electricity, it is also kicking some back.

rufes · Jul 17, 2008

sickboy79 said:
Exactly - it's the sensitivity that means anything for actual volume.

But those 4dB difference (a 4%) between a V30 and a G12M Heritage feel much higher when you compare them (maybe a 15% or a 20%???) so there might be other factors to keep in mind too. Don't you think? :hmm

Wilko · Jul 18, 2008

rufes said:
But those 4dB difference (a 4%) between a V30 and a G12M Heritage feel much higher when you compare them (maybe a 15% or a 20%???) so there might be other factors to keep in mind too. Don't you think? :hmm

The ratios are figured out on that logarhythmic scale to show that, as someone posted above, 4dB is a lot more than the ~4% is 40% of 10dB needed to double the volume, so if you figure 96 dB is baseline volume, 4 dB more is 40% louder.

ptrickamp222 · Jul 18, 2008

The true answer is what sound are you looking for???? The Celestion Blue will sound more British with Higher response / Louder. The Heritage G12M / 20watter will get the 67' Tone. Cream / Jethro Tull/ most 67 albums of the great bands. I use both for different sounds and feels. They are both the best for what they do. Also do not forget the Celestion Gold. Would be great for a Hiwatt. I use one for a Germino Club 40......Killer. With 2x12 G12M Heritage.......67 Cream Tone....:salude
A Hiwatt would melt G12M's 20 watters or Blue Celestion's unless u would be using a 4x12.

Drawrein · Jul 22, 2008

Actually +3dBs is twice as loud:

"..3 dB increase (decrease) for every factor 2 increase (decrease)"

At those conditions the Blue was measured as more than twice as loud as the G12M by Celestion

D

Minibucker · Jul 22, 2008

Twice as loud, or requires twice as much power?

Drawrein · Jul 22, 2008

Twice as loud at the same power

BTW, that would be my parlor speaker also. I had one in a Classic 30 and it kicked butt

Minibucker · Jul 22, 2008

Drawrein said:
Twice as loud at the same power

Wait......what? If you have an amp that's putting 15 watts into a speaker, and you want it twice as loud, how can you still be putting the same 15w of power out of the amp? When you turn up the volume on your amp, you're turning up the power, no? The way I understand it, if you have x dB at 15w, then to get x+3 dB (3 dB increase), you'll need 30 watts, twice as much power. But does that +3 dB make it twice as loud?

Drawrein · Jul 22, 2008

Power and dB and percieved loudness aren't linear. I'm not an expert but I read that to double the loudness of an amp you must increase the output by 10X. Thats why a 50 and 100w amp arent that much different in "loudness" everything else equal. I think that you have to drop to a Valve Jr/Blackheart head to actually get half the volume of the big guys through the same cab.

D

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