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Does wax potting destroy PAF tone ??

Sol

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Oct 26, 2001
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775
Sorry for the dramatic headline, just thought it would get your attention, ha ha !
Seriously though, if a pickup is made in all respects to capture the elusive tone of a great PAF, can wax potting have an adverse effect on achieving that end?

I say this as I was dissappointed to find the Burstbuckers in my R7 were wax potted, and have since found that only 'aftermarket' purchased Bustbuckers now come as standard without wax potting, why did Gibson do this?
 

les strat

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Aug 22, 2004
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5,194
I personally think that potting doesn't affect the direct tone as much as it does little characteristics, such as percussive little chirps, howls, and clank (IYKWIM). I think it is very subtle, but it is there. The unpotted ones just sound a little more alive IMO. Not as constrained. That said, Angus Young used potted pickups back in the 70's and he had a very articulate sound (Listen to "Ride On" solo). The Burstbuckers are fine if you get a good set.

My unpotted Antiquities do not feedback any more than my potted '57's and Burstbuckers even with lots of gain, so I don't think it's that big of a deal unless you are playing nu-metal or something.
 
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kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
Messages
7,672
Les Strat speaks the truth, BUT it is those subtle things that sets the better PAFs apart!! The difference in tone, that elusive, subtle difference is what most people are seeking. It is just that different people may be seeking different subtle aspects...personal taste. I am not a fan of wax potting myself.
 

Leña_Costoso

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Jul 24, 2005
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2,234
Conceptually - the tone may improve with potting.

It has been argued that, potting reduces the subtle vibration of the windings, thus "killing" the tone that that produces.

It can also be argued that those vibrations in and of themselves may be killing tone, and the elimination of them might improve tone.

Doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me either way. If it feeds back, and its not the cover doing it, then pot it, move on. If it doesn't feed back, it aint broke - SO DONT FIX IT.
 

uOpt

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Nov 20, 2007
Messages
166
I plan to pot my Antiquities some day and I'll let you know.

Personally, what I'll test first when it comes to these little things is pickguard mount versus humbucker ring mount versus wood mount. Not as destructive to the pickup.

Both experiment will reveal how much movement of the coils against the guitar base do to the sound. I expect it to be more noticeable than fiddling with capacitors and pots (as long as you don't do all pots and caps at once).
 

Zhangliqun

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Jul 16, 2001
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5,204
If you mix the wax thin and don't leave the pu in the pot more than 6-7 minutes, the effect on tone should be somewhere between zero and negligible.
 

Sol

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Thanks, Well I certainly havent suffered with skreeches and feedback from using unpotted pups, so far..

I have a set of unpotted Burstbuckers from the first yr of manufacture and they are my favorite Gibson pickup to date, and Im not dissatisfied with the present pups in the R7, they have pretty much what I want in a pickup.

So, the concensus seems to be that if potting has an effect, that effect is small and not detrimental to the tone of a repro PAF type pickup.

I believe I hear a difference in unpotted pups at high volume, could that be the effect refered to by earlier posters to the thread I wonder.
It could be that the SPL is actually moving the coil windings perhaps and creating an almost indefinable 'something' in the sound were hearing, its all interesting stuff really, Im quite gealous of these pickup makers who get to experiment withall these varied perameters, cause the reality seems to be that we are now able to recreate almost perfect PAF pickups for the first time ever, and Im enjoying the fruits of their hard work, cool, eh?
 

guitarvoodoo

Formerly fishnose, Les Paul Forum Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
2,000
I think ear wax affects tone more.

Hmm, we'll have to subject this hypothesis to a controlled test:

If everybody collects earwax for say the coming month or so, then we all send it to Paul, and he can try potting a suitable PAF with all the earwax.
And of course record identical tracks before and after with the exact same equipment - the only way to make a fair judgment if this hypothesis is correct.

Okay, everyone agreed on this? Good.

Paul, could you put up your postal address so we know where to send our envelopes of wax :ganz

:] Fish
 

Black58

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Oct 28, 2005
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10,139
When volumes are up (like most of us like it), the most minute details are also WAY up. EVERYTHING matters. Personally, I'd rather stand in one particular spot sending great sounds to great people than something runnin' 'round the stage like MTV 1988 with my balls on fire! Music or theater? Ask yerself wath'cha really NEED to do! :jim
 

el84ster

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Sep 10, 2001
Messages
1,420
I've had the same pickup non potted and potted and I can tell you there is a fairly large difference. It seems to get rid of some of that klanky kinda sound that gives a PAF so much character.

THere are some clips around here on some thread where a dude compares the same pickup potted and un potted. You can hear it. A little less...detail. It's almost like the difference between cover off and on...something in the high end...something not quite as open and detailed.
 

fatnecks

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Jan 14, 2007
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Normally when I'm speaking of mods and things, I like to think of what the non-musician people in the crowd would be able to hear and what they wouldn't. Suffice to say, I probably consider more things negligible than most folks here on the forum (like the half-ounce difference from this tailpiece to the next, etc.).

However, I had some unpotted burstbuckers that squealed on me pretty bad once I put covers on them. So I potted 'em. Not only could I DEFINITELY hear the difference (which caught me by surprise), the bloody things still squealed too. And yes I clamped them before soldering.

Anyway, I agree with the description above. They weren't as "articulate" or "crisp" as before.....
 

Gene Conrad

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
151
from what I read years ago, eddie used surfboard wax melted in an old coffee can, and dipped an old gibson pickup rewound by him to have more turns.

he had some pretty great tones out of thhat old plank of wood with an old pup screwed into it.
 

Minibucker

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Jan 12, 2003
Messages
6,372
It was Eddie, though, right?

Those destroyers were cool, too. Is that the one on the Women And Children First album cover?
 
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