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  1. #361
    Les Paul Forum Member fromthebeginning's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by fromthebeginning View Post
    Hi just wanted to get some input, I bought my 2000 Y2K Yamano Murphy used it came with 2 cases, a Lifton and a black historic case was that standard or did I just luck out getting two cases?
    If just found this


    Re: 1999 and 2000 Gibson Les Paul R9's: Lets see em
    Quote Originally Posted by pinefd View Post
    Regarding the Lifton comment, I know that my '99s came with both Lifton cases and black Custom Shop cases, so I know they were available back then...but probably only as a special order at an up-charge.


    Frank
    Gibson had a promotion deal on the '99 R9's.

    They came with the black case, but if you sent the warranty and a copy of your sales receipt to Gibson, they would send you the Lifton case and a copy of BOTB.

  2. #362
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by jalguitarman View Post
    Thank you. Any Idea as what nut material was used in 2006?
    Hi - anybody know the answer to this? I too am curious to know what nut material was used on a 2007 prior to the nylon nuts.

  3. #363
    Les Paul Forum Member Patek's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    What is the difference between ‘soft’ and ‘hard’ maple tops, as referred to as the difference between 93-2001 LPs?

  4. #364
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    What is the difference between ‘soft’ and ‘hard’ maple tops, as referred to as the difference between 93-2001 LPs?
    If you have not seen it yet.. there is a great discussion now on eastern maple:
    https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...reaks-Question

  5. #365
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by goldTopDeluxe View Post
    Hi - anybody know the answer to this? I too am curious to know what nut material was used on a 2007 prior to the nylon nuts.
    I think it may have been Corian, the same material used for kitchen countertops.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  6. #366
    Les Paul Forum Member Patek's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Is there going to be any update to include 2010-2013 which is radical

    and then 2014 to 2019, as the 2015 2016 2017 2018 etc have very confusing spec some TH some with TH plastics some not, some short tenon then at some point the long was put back etc

    very confusing

  7. #367

    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Is it possible that R6 from 2001 don't have a COA and have brazilian fretboard? This is one of the first R6 in 2001.

  8. #368
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Hey, would anyone object to me compiling this information and making a spiffy infographic with it for all of our benefit?

  9. #369
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by bossanova View Post
    Hey, would anyone object to me compiling this information and making a spiffy infographic with it for all of our benefit?
    Hearing no objection, I'll get started

  10. #370
    Les Paul Forum Member Fried okra's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by bossanova View Post
    Hearing no objection, I'll get started
    I am definitely not objecting. Please, by all means do.
    Last edited by Fried okra; Today at 00:00. Reason: No reason, just felt like making it look like I edited it.



    "I just try to keep my fingers between the binding". Tom Wittrock

    I’m fond of well loved guitars, you know, well played. You can keep all the mint ones, give me one that has bled for its master." - Fried Okra

  11. #371
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried okra View Post
    I am definitely not objecting. Please, by all means do.
    OK. First phase is compiling all of this into a Google doc, then deciding what to keep, then finally layout. I'll need lots of help, to review and fill gaps!

    EDIT: Google Doc here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

    please insert any edits as comments. editing has been disabled on the doc.
    Last edited by bossanova; 03-21-19 at 12:21 AM.

  12. #372
    Les Paul Forum Member bigcat's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Official 2018 changes:

    2018changes_2.jpg2018changes_1.jpg


    Official 2019 changes:

    According to this interview with Mat Koehler, Customshop Product Development Manager.
    I list some points

    • All True Historic parts with updated color.
    • Custom Bucker pickups are unpotted (you can expect better dynamic but also more microphonic).
    • 64' SG (with thicker neck) will be available.
    • R9 will have the 60th anniversary medallion and some special case candy.
    • The gold color of Goldtop will be darker.

  13. #373

    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSlub View Post
    Yessir! You're right! Thanks for reminding me! Here is my "Historic Collection" certificate for my early '93 Les Paul Reissue (pre-Historic):

    Hi Mr Mike Slub, Could you let me know, when did start the prehistoric collection for the 1957 reissue gibson les paul custom, black beauty please ? Thanks, akkermanfan

  14. #374
    Les Paul Forum Member Leonidas's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Hi! Thank you very much for your post
    I have a Gibson LP Custom Shop R7 LP VOS (certificate date 4/21/2011), and I would like to know please what kind of Rosewood it has , is it Indian Rosewood?
    And, just in case, maybe you can help me with another doubt about her, at that time R7 came with Burstbuckers?

    Thank you very much for your help everybody, this forum is the best!



    Quote Originally Posted by DANELECTRO View Post
    Les Paul Historic Collection Chronicle

    1993
    * Historic Collection introduced. Models include; '54 Black Beauty, '56 Goldtop, '57 Custom Black Beauty/3 Pickup, '57 Goldtop, '57 Custom Black Beauty/2 Pickup, '57 Custom Black Beauty with optional Bigsby Tailpiece, '59 Flametop, '60 Flametop
    * First 25 Sunburst and first 15 Goldtops were painted by Tom Murphy.
    * Deep neck joint.
    * Thin Holly head veneer.
    * Silk screened les paul logo.
    * Correct pickup routing.
    * Les Paul classic aged inlay.
    * 57 Classic pickups.
    * Kluson replica tuners.
    * Vintage letter styled serial#.
    *"Historic collection" decal on the back of the headstock.
    * Indian rosewood fingerboard.
    *"AAAA" grade soft maple top.
    * Regular gibson usa brown case.
    * Regular early 90s style cherry sunburst.
    * Cherry sunburst and heritage darkburst"
    * Some models lack pickguard

    1994
    * Historic parts; only pickguard, pickup rings, trussrod cover.
    * Regular gibson usa white pearloid inlay.
    * "AAAA" grade soft maple top.
    * Darker transparent orangy cherry sunburst. (1994-1996)
    * First year for the R8
    * First 200 of 1994 painted By Tom Murphy
    *"Historic collection" decal still on the back of the headstock.
    * 1995-2002 both Eastern and Western Maple used for tops

    1995

    1996
    * "Flametop" R8 introduced in Buttersctch and Vintage Red finishes
    * R4 1996 up

    1997
    * ID micro chip in the neck joint.
    * Brass bridge saddles instead of steel bridge saddles.
    * "AAAAA" grade soft maple top.
    * Brighter transparent orangy cherry sunburst. (1997-199
    * Pickguard blueprinted and caused a gap, revealing improper placement of the bridge pickup
    * Brighter back cherry color.
    * Junior 57 1997 up
    * Junior 58 1997 up
    * Special 58 1997-2000?
    * Special 60 1997-up (when they discontinued the Special 58, they incoporated the SC into the Special 60)

    1998
    * R2 1998-2003
    * No pointers on knobs?

    1999
    * 40th Anniversary '59 RI - Painted and aged by Murphy (100 made?)
    * No R8 this year
    * COA began.
    * Thin body binding.
    * Thin lacquer finish.
    * "AAA" hard maple top.
    * new vintage taste cherry and darkburst.
    * Vintage style back red filler color.
    * Refined parts positions and neck shape.
    * Bridge pickup moved to its proper place
    * R9 Plaintop 1999-2000
    * Gibson Stops flame enhancing
    * Limited quantity of "Killer Top" R9s, "AAAAA" tops, stamped R9K in cavity

    2000
    * No R8 this year
    * Vintage lifton style brown case for R9/R0.
    * Lemon Burst, Tri Burst.
    * Black Custom Art Historic case. (TKL)
    * No COA.
    * No tortoise side markers.
    * Rounded fretboard inlays.
    * Heavyweight tailpiece.
    * '57 Classic PUP's.
    * Thick jack plate.
    * Thick switch plate/washer.
    * Fine-knurl switch nut.
    * Amber knobs.
    * Gibson label potentiometers.
    * Orange drop capacitors.

    2001
    * R9 production limited to 500 units US, 1000 worldwide due to "parts constraints"
    * Custom Authentic models introduced (broken-in finish, aged hardware, Grovers)
    * Dickie Betts '57 Goldtop introduced (limited edition of 114)
    * R8 returns with a flametop
    * Thin neck binding.
    * New round edged pearloid inlay. (2001-2002 only)
    * Vintage style mid jumbo size frets.
    * New thick jack plate. (2001-2002 only)
    * Aluminum tailpiece.
    * Tortoise side markers
    * Very bright red sunburst.
    * Faded Tabacco, Iced Tea, Washed Cherry.
    * Lifton case is standard for R9/R0
    * COA standard
    * Limited run of Brazilian board R9's given to award dealers. About 50 guitars in the 9 1203 to 9 1250 range all but 6 of them aged by Tom Murphy
    * 38 Official Brazilian R9's

    2002
    * Genuine Kluson tuners for the early units.
    * Improved tuner bushings
    * More accurately shaped fingerboard inlays
    * Non-wire ABR-1 bridge for the early units.
    * Amber tophat knobs
    * CTS pots
    * Owners Card (listing name, serial number and the dealership), Certificate of Authenticity, Reissue Strap, an Embroidered Les Paul Swatch and a Custom Care Kit.
    * Burstbucker type 2 & 3.
    * Inlay material changed to swirly plastic, corners sharpened. (only R9/R0, later for all models)
    * Vintage style thin jack plate. (only R9/0, later for all models)
    * Vintage style thin toggle switch washer. (only R9/0, later for all models)
    * Vintage color toggle switch knob. (only R9/0, later for all models)
    * Vintage style CTS pots and oil caps. not bumblebee. (only R9/0, later all models)
    * Dark deep cherry sunburst.
    * R7 gets Bursrtbuckers
    * Left handed Historics get side dots added to the underside of the neck
    * Custom Authentic loses Grovers
    * 8 Official Brazilian R9's
    * 5 Guitar Center R0 models built (listed as "LPR0PTKBNH1 LP 60 Plaintop")

    2003
    * Brazilian boards installed from January through May as follows:
    ** of 4 3001-4 3150 35 of these were R4 Custom Black Beauties = 115 BRW R4s
    ** of 7 3001-7 3707 220 of these were R7 Customs, 4 GTs were 02 specs, 28 were Juniors = 455 BRW R7s
    ** of 8 3001-8 3256 31 of these were Juniors = 225 BRW R8s
    ** of 0 3001-0 3163 50 were G0s, 20 were Specials = 93 BRW R0s
    ** R6s and R9s Do not share with other models, so all 148 R6s and all 674 R9s are BRW.
    * Price drop on R8s and R9s
    * Truss rod cover moved away from nut
    * Headstock shape changed
    * Tuners arranged to be inline
    * Vintage style CTS pots
    * Bumblebee Caps
    * Return to wired ABR
    * Madagascar rosewood fingerboard.
    * Eastern hard maple top
    * "AA" grade eastern hard maple top.
    * R9 flametop becomes less flashy due to increased use of Eastern Maple
    * R8 returns with a plain top
    * Burstbucker type 1 & 2.
    * Gold knobs instead of previous vintage amber knobs.
    * Corrected tuner positions. "V" intead of "l l" way.
    * Transparent orange to regular red cherry sunburst.
    * "i"dot on gibson logo moved to the correct position.
    * Refined parts positions and neck shape.
    * Inlays changed to swirly plastic, sharp corners on remaining models
    * Special run of "Stinger Series" guitars. Music Machine "Stingers" have Brazilian Rosewood fretboards
    * 50 Guitar Center R0 models built

    2004
    * Cloud 9 chambered models introduced in limited quantities
    * Jimmy Page signature model introduced; 25 Murphy aged guitars signed by JP, 150 Murphy aged unsigned models, 870 Custom Authentic non-Murphy aged guitars produced, run complete in 2007
    * New custom shop black case.
    * "AAA" eastern hard maple top.
    * Silk screened logo moved to the correct location.
    * Short Truss Rod Screws the right size

    2005
    * TR screws return to the wrong size

    2006
    * VOS finish with aged hardware introduced
    * CS begins using Plek machine used for dressing frets and cutting nut slots
    * Real vintage looking maple top grains/figures.

    2007
    * Brighter back red filler color.
    * Real honduran mahogany.............
    * 50th Anniversary Goldtop (Ewwww) 157 to be built

    2008

    Note: The data presented in this list is a compilation of information found in print as well as from contributions made by LPF members. Its accuracy is not guaranteed.

    Links:

    1993 Historic Collection Catalog
    Stinger Series
    Keeping the Flame Alive
    1958 Les Paul Standard Reissue returns to Custom Shop home
    Gibson Custom Authentic: Hard, sweet magic
    The wait is over: Gibson Custom '59 Les Paul Reissue debuts
    '59 Les Paul Flametop Reissue stirs controversy; Custom Shop answers the call
    Aged to perfection: 1957 Goldtop Reissue
    Gibson Custom, Art & Historic division turns to reissues and innovation for five new models
    1958 Les Paul Standard Reissue returns to Custom Shop home
    Only 500 Gibson 1959 Les Paul Reissues in 2001
    Gibson Les Paul Goldtop Reissue: Nice reissue, aging optional
    BurstBuckers put the edge on replica Gibson sounds
    1983-1993 Gibson Les Paul Reissues: Another Small Step Toward the ’59 Dream?
    Gibson Les Paul Late 70’s/Early 80’s “Pre-Reissues”: On the Road to ’59?
    Neck Tenon Difference - Historic vs USA (youtube)
    Gibson Custom Shop Presents Vintage Original Spec (youtube)

  15. #375
    Les Paul Forum Member PHILBERT's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    At a time when Custom Shop Les Paul guitars are constructed as well as ever, and the proof is in tone that I have never heard as good (and I've tried many over the years), I'm surprised the information of these monumental changes has not been updated here since 2014 when hide glue was used on fretboards. Danelectro did a fantastic job of updating the changes up to a point the original post would no longer take characters, but no one continued the narrative.

    So there were those mixed up years where short tenons were made on something called Historic. What years were those made, and when did they stop doing that (IMO never should have done that)?

    What year did they start using hide glue on the tops?

    I have to say that my 2018 '59 reissue Murphy finished monster flametop Factory Burst Les Paul is the best chunk of reissue Les Paul I have ever heard. Resonance is outstanding, and that is evident by the touch dynamics from soft strumming / picking to hard strumming / picking. Note definition is also miles ahead of everything else. And out of about 13 2018 and 2019 examples I played (into my own amp setup), they all had similar characteristics...especially acoustically. The Alnico 3 magnets have that harmonic growl and excitation that I have experienced in old PAF pickups. Some of the wood had a bit more top/mids/bottom variation, but nothing too different. But compared to 2011 and back, which I always thought sounded dull with shrill pickups used to try and brighten them (Burstbuckers), the hide glue changed everything to sound truely open and transparent. The glue, along with the correct truss rod change made these Les Paul guitars worth having. I'm just sad they wasted all the tone wood over the years on tone turds due to bad glue that dulled the sound. Sure, some of them "made the cut" with a solid connection, but many didn't. That is why finding a bad one today is almost impossible, while finding a good one before the major change to hide glue was almost impossible (for me anyway).

    Something else I noticed was a change for the better on USA Les Paul guitars, as well. Did they start using hide glue? If so, when? I have a 2012 Trad Pro II with Classic 57 and Super 57 pickups that just nails golden era LP tone. Not quite as resonant as my 2018 Custom Shop LP, but tone is similar with a bit more (good) mids. It's a keeper! But I wonder if it was constructed with that new Traditional tenon that was introduced back around 2012. I really want to know when they started that, what they used it on, and if they still use it. I also want to know if any USA models are using hide glue, and when that may have started. And since I heard the harmonic improvement in A3 magnets, I'm looking to score a '57 A3T and A3R pickup set to try in either LP. That may be the perfect balance for me with the best of both worlds of woody mids and harmonic highs.

    One thing I would like to add is recognition to a certain tone capacitor Gibson used around 2012 (maybe before) up to 2016 (maybe shortly after) in some USA Les Paul guitars (no circuit board models). The little blue epoxy dipped teardrop caps absolutely nail the golden era Les Paul tone. I am looking to get some in my my Custom Shop '59 (If anyone has some source information, please let me know). No "orange drop" or "Lux Bees" (or Gibson "fake bees"...God help us) do what these little blue buggers do. The frequency and cutoff slope are perfect for old LP tone. Hearing is believing!

    I wish I had more to offer, but I am no expert on year to year changes. We need Dano back! I miss ya, brother.

    Phil
    Phil http://philbert.lh.net/cool.gif

    "Sometimes life is a beach."

    http://youtu.be/ttqhJy9UA9Q

    (warning: 1080P full screen HD content with wide stereo sound. High speed connection advised.)

    http://youtu.be/ybDROZZphAQ

  16. #376

    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by PHILBERT View Post
    At a time when Custom Shop Les Paul guitars are constructed as well as ever, and the proof is in tone that I have never heard as good (and I've tried many over the years), I'm surprised the information of these monumental changes has not been updated here since 2014 when hide glue was used on fretboards. Danelectro did a fantastic job of updating the changes up to a point the original post would no longer take characters, but no one continued the narrative.

    So there were those mixed up years where short tenons were made on something called Historic. What years were those made, and when did they stop doing that (IMO never should have done that)?

    What year did they start using hide glue on the tops?

    I have to say that my 2018 '59 reissue Murphy finished monster flametop Factory Burst Les Paul is the best chunk of reissue Les Paul I have ever heard. Resonance is outstanding, and that is evident by the touch dynamics from soft strumming / picking to hard strumming / picking. Note definition is also miles ahead of everything else. And out of about 13 2018 and 2019 examples I played (into my own amp setup), they all had similar characteristics...especially acoustically. The Alnico 3 magnets have that harmonic growl and excitation that I have experienced in old PAF pickups. Some of the wood had a bit more top/mids/bottom variation, but nothing too different. But compared to 2011 and back, which I always thought sounded dull with shrill pickups used to try and brighten them (Burstbuckers), the hide glue changed everything to sound truely open and transparent. The glue, along with the correct truss rod change made these Les Paul guitars worth having. I'm just sad they wasted all the tone wood over the years on tone turds due to bad glue that dulled the sound. Sure, some of them "made the cut" with a solid connection, but many didn't. That is why finding a bad one today is almost impossible, while finding a good one before the major change to hide glue was almost impossible (for me anyway).

    Something else I noticed was a change for the better on USA Les Paul guitars, as well. Did they start using hide glue? If so, when? I have a 2012 Trad Pro II with Classic 57 and Super 57 pickups that just nails golden era LP tone. Not quite as resonant as my 2018 Custom Shop LP, but tone is similar with a bit more (good) mids. It's a keeper! But I wonder if it was constructed with that new Traditional tenon that was introduced back around 2012. I really want to know when they started that, what they used it on, and if they still use it. I also want to know if any USA models are using hide glue, and when that may have started. And since I heard the harmonic improvement in A3 magnets, I'm looking to score a '57 A3T and A3R pickup set to try in either LP. That may be the perfect balance for me with the best of both worlds of woody mids and harmonic highs.

    One thing I would like to add is recognition to a certain tone capacitor Gibson used around 2012 (maybe before) up to 2016 (maybe shortly after) in some USA Les Paul guitars (no circuit board models). The little blue epoxy dipped teardrop caps absolutely nail the golden era Les Paul tone. I am looking to get some in my my Custom Shop '59 (If anyone has some source information, please let me know). No "orange drop" or "Lux Bees" (or Gibson "fake bees"...God help us) do what these little blue buggers do. The frequency and cutoff slope are perfect for old LP tone. Hearing is believing!

    I wish I had more to offer, but I am no expert on year to year changes. We need Dano back! I miss ya, brother.

    Phil
    I dont know how I missed this post . Wow, you nailed it. I have 2 2018 ROs that have "Snap, Crackle, Pop" tone. They are magical.

  17. #377

    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by PHILBERT View Post

    I wish I had more to offer, but I am no expert on year to year changes. We need Dano back! I miss ya, brother.

    Phil
    I'm still here, I'm just so busy with things these days that I don't find much time to post much on the forum. When I created the thread I didn't intend to be the person maintaining it anyway. At the time there were threads popping up on a regular basis with members asking "When did this change occur?" and "When did that change occur?". I just thought it would be nice to have one place where members could contribute information about the details of the Historic models over the years. There have been so many changes to the Historic line in the dozen years since this thread was started that I couldn't fill in all the blanks if I had to. Of course the thread is open to anybody and everybody who would like to contribute.

  18. #378
    Les Paul Forum Member Legbah's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Hey, New to the forum. The Hide Glue and "Molecularly (Sic) Correct" plastics started in 2015. I think the new management at Gibson is good and that’s why I bought one. Excited about the future and glad to be here. Love the forum!
    Last edited by Legbah; 08-03-20 at 07:16 PM. Reason: cancelled les paul

  19. #379
    Les Paul Forum Member PHILBERT's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Victory Pete View Post
    I dont know how I missed this post . Wow, you nailed it. I have 2 2018 ROs that have "Snap, Crackle, Pop" tone. They are magical.
    Yeah, this is what we wanted all these years, and they finally delivered. Cosmetically, the Kluson tuning tips are off, and the neck binding needs to be lighter, plus the pickup covers are not quite there...but you can fix most of those issues. ThroBak covers nail it (and the SLE-101 pups do too). And I have a set of repro tips from 2010 (forget the brand name) that can fix the translucent tip issue. Not much can be done about the neck binding, but hey, these things sound incredible!

    Cheers!

    Phil
    Phil http://philbert.lh.net/cool.gif

    "Sometimes life is a beach."

    http://youtu.be/ttqhJy9UA9Q

    (warning: 1080P full screen HD content with wide stereo sound. High speed connection advised.)

    http://youtu.be/ybDROZZphAQ

  20. #380
    Les Paul Forum Member PHILBERT's Avatar
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    Re: Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by DANELECTRO View Post
    I'm still here, I'm just so busy with things these days that I don't find much time to post much on the forum. When I created the thread I didn't intend to be the person maintaining it anyway. At the time there were threads popping up on a regular basis with members asking "When did this change occur?" and "When did that change occur?". I just thought it would be nice to have one place where members could contribute information about the details of the Historic models over the years. There have been so many changes to the Historic line in the dozen years since this thread was started that I couldn't fill in all the blanks if I had to. Of course the thread is open to anybody and everybody who would like to contribute.
    Well hello, Dano!

    This is one of the greatest threads in the Custom/Historic District. Thank you for all your contributions. It's been a long road to get to where we are today. I FINALLY found my dream LP, but if it weren't for the attention to details we all harped on for years, I don't think we would have gotten here. Those of us (now old farts) who have that tone and detailed image of golden era Les Paul guitars burned into our brains...but could never afford one by being a bit too young to get them while they could, now have a chance.

    Thank you again for all you have contributed.

    Phil
    Phil http://philbert.lh.net/cool.gif

    "Sometimes life is a beach."

    http://youtu.be/ttqhJy9UA9Q

    (warning: 1080P full screen HD content with wide stereo sound. High speed connection advised.)

    http://youtu.be/ybDROZZphAQ

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