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1952 ES-175 conversion help please

Dutch53GT

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Jan 18, 2006
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Well, I might add something to this discussion (after all it's my guitar); I don't play jazz on it, just high energy blues like Professor. I love to play that guitar, I won't be selling it and like Professor said, Gibson made them with two pickups also. So if it can be done in a way that you won't be able to see the difference with a genuine ES-175D, I really don't see the problem. Still have to think it over...:hmm

If you really think that way, just rout it. Not like it will kill someone.
Good luck and please share pictures when you done it. :headbange
 

sine_wave

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Jan 4, 2007
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The one pup 175 is not rare, and will never be a holy grail instrument.

What? ES-175 not a holy grail instrument?. Maybe not for people into southern rock or that kind of stuff, but for A LOT of people it is a holy grail instrument. The amazing players that helped make it famous prove that.

In terms of rarity, it depends what you're comparing it to. From 1949-53 it had one pickup. Then Gibson offered both. Most models I've seen for sale have two pickups(whether they're P90's or HB's). As far as I know Gibson didn't even make any more one pickup ES-175's after 1964. IMO, they're rare.

BTW, to the OP.... Don't you think you'll eventually get some satisfaction knowing you own a fine vintage Gibson that was not cut up? I'm a serious player so I don't get it when people say the only guys who like their guitars original just stare at them. Although, I sure do stare, when I'm not playing! :)
 
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Troels

Guest
Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Maybe "more challenging" can also mean "less versatile"...

That's absolutely right... to sides of the same case. It's the lesser versatility that's makes it more challenging I think :)

To 58dutchie... well yes... we sometimes forget who started the thread and whos guitar it was all about. And now - when everything should be said it's probably right to ad that we are talking about 3.100 gr plywood and a piece og mahogany :) :) :) Nobodys hurt :)
 

ES335TD

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Oct 20, 2002
Messages
374
This is a good thread - obviously there are two sides to the "mods" story, and this one get's complicated because 58dutchie loves the guitar and they were born on the same day!

One additional thought - if you haven't already,you might want to check out how a bridge pickup sounds in a 175. I had a 2 pickup '57 (blonde, lefty!) and I never used the bridge pickup. The PAF at the neck gave me plenty of clarity and treble when I needed it, and a P-90 certainly does not lack for high end.

Troels point is a good one - in the '70's a lot of us butchered guitars that we regretted later on. My biggest mod is taking a '52 lefty refin goldtop and doing the full '57 conversion. If the guitar wasn't already modded, I would not have altered anything.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!
 
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Troels

Guest
This is a good thread - obviously there are two sides to the "mods" story, and this one get's complicated because 58dutchie loves the guitar and they were born on the same day!

One additional thought - if you haven't already,you might want to check out how a bridge pickup sounds in a 175. I had a 2 pickup '57 (blonde, lefty!) and I never used the bridge pickup. The PAF at the neck gave me plenty of clarity and treble when I needed it, and a P-90 certainly does not lack for high end.

Troels point is a good one - in the '70's a lot of us butchered guitars that we regretted later on. My biggest mod is taking a '52 lefty refin goldtop and doing the full '57 conversion. If the guitar wasn't already modded, I would not have altered anything.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!

I think it's a good thread too and there are obviously two types of guitar lovers... those who mod to get something new and those who don't to take care of something old :) Luckily we live side by side without too much fight (except here :) ) Actually mod'ing is a sort of age-phaenomen - you do it untill you finally realize that most guitars play their best the way they left the factory. Guitar mod'ing end somewhere between 40 and 55 years of age :) . After that you have only energy enough to play the guitars - no longer to pull pots and things in and out of f-holes. At least that's the conclusion I came to after being "The King of Guitar Modifications" for most of the 70s and stop selling them in the 80s. Strangely enough I've never modified an amp (but I remember having had an electric chok while testing an old Teisco 8 watt with a 6" speaker)... but that's probably another thread somewhere else :)
 

keef

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Jan 27, 2002
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5,006
I think it's a good thread too and there are obviously two types of guitar lovers... those who mod to get something new and those who don't to take care of something old :) Luckily we live side by side without too much fight (except here :) ) Actually mod'ing is a sort of age-phaenomen - you do it untill you finally realize that most guitars play their best the way they left the factory. Guitar mod'ing end somewhere between 40 and 55 years of age :) . After that you have only energy enough to play the guitars - no longer to pull pots and things in and out of f-holes. At least that's the conclusion I came to after being "The King of Guitar Modifications" for most of the 70s and stop selling them in the 80s. Strangely enough I've never modified an amp (but I remember having had an electric chok while testing an old Teisco 8 watt with a 6" speaker)... but that's probably another thread somewhere else :)

And that coming from someone who recently sawed off a piece of the fingerboard of his 330....The King of Guitar Modifications, indeed.

Mind you - I would never do the 175 mod myself. The owner says he will never part with the guitar since it was made on his birthday. So who are we to tell him not to go ahead with the mod - we're not the fucking vintage guitar police.

Check the current thread on pro mods to see what real players did to their guitars. This guy is not going to jail for doing the mod, and he's not hacking up the Mona Lisa either. Rout and be happy. :2cool
 
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Troels

Guest
And that coming from someone who recently sawed off a piece of the fingerboard of his 330....The King of Guitar Modifications, indeed.

LOL... :) Now you've really got a point... but my excuse was/is that I HAD to get it to play in tune. I wanted/want to gig with it - and I HATE when guitars won't play in tune... I wasn't desparate - but close. BUT - to be honest I've returned it back to original (yes... put back that millimeter I took away plus a tad) because I had trouble tuning it. The guitar did play VERY well in tune after my first operation - but I didn't know how to systematically get there (I couldn't fret similar notes and flageoletto overtones matched anywhere...) I'm quite clever with my hands so it's completely invisible... you see many years of mod have turned me into a master :) :) :)
I've learned one thing: it's VERY scary how even small changes in fingerboard length/mensure and things like that can make it or breake it... I'm not a fretboards theoretical (spell?) so I can't explain why but it's better in tune than ever now :)

and finally... the fucking vintage guitar police... I like that :) wonder what the uniforms look like :)
 
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Mahalo

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Nov 19, 2005
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530
Hi Tuberide,

I won't sell it because I had Gibson track down the shipping ledgers by it's serial number and it appeared to been 'born' on the same day as I was! So I'll NEVER part from it...:bday:

Maybe think of it this way... you're getting older, right? Would you have plastic surgery to try to look "better"? I thought not. You are perfect just the way you were born. So is this guitar! It shares your birthday. It is a precious timeslice from the fifties... just like you. Please, keep it the way it was created... just like you.

Best wishes, and thanks for sharing,

Mahalo :salude
 

ES345

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Aug 13, 2006
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705
Mahalo, are you from down under? if so i was on R&R from RVN in '68 in Manly.

I think gibson reissued some 175's with P90's, you could even put a bigsby on it, go for one of those and keep this beauty as it is, it is nice, very nice, to have an original in original condition.

peace
 

treeofpain

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Aug 1, 2004
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969
If the guitar will theoretically survive for hundreds more years, the fact that the current owner won't sell it for another 30-40 years is not that significant.

For clean original vintage pieces, I think we need to consider ourselves caretakers of these items for whatever time we own them (even for life, as in this case).

Based on this, I recommend not doing any irreversible mods to the guitar.

Also, even when done professionally, mods like this CAN and often DO affect the sound of the guitar itself. if you love it like it is, will you love it if it changes? Who knows - it's a craps shoot.

That said, there are probably ways of installing a floating pickup to give you more variety. Maybe it won't be a 50's P90 in the bridge, but it would be a compromise. It would also allow you to try different pickups to see what works for you.
 

58dutchie

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Aug 31, 2006
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Hello to you all,

After reading all the posts and thinking it over (and playing the guitar) I have decided NOT to change the guitar... I love it as it is and (being a history teacher myself) I agree that 'we' have to treasure the old and vintage guitars, not only for ourselves but also for the future. It really is a great sounding AND great looking guitar as it is and I think I will buy me another one (cheaper and not that old) to do the things I want to. I just don't have the guts to rout it....thanks everyone for all your help and comments! This forum rules!!! :applaude :applaude :applaude
 

Smiert Spionam

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Mar 19, 2007
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That said, there are probably ways of installing a floating pickup to give you more variety. Maybe it won't be a 50's P90 in the bridge, but it would be a compromise. It would also allow you to try different pickups to see what works for you.

That's an interesting idea. Fralin makes an alnico fixed polepiece P90 without the bar magnets -- it can be surface mounted. With a little clever engineering, you could install one of those under a standard dogear cover with a spacer, run the pickup wire under the pickguard, install a hidden toggle there, and leave the guitar intact structurally with minimal marks on the top.
 

Wally

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Feb 27, 2003
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Bunch of sissies...!


LOL!

Just when I was about to suggest that the new hole would provide great access for installing a soundpost or two to control feedback while playing the shit out of that guitar, Dutchie backs out?! The soundposts would also preclude any worry about the top sinking in.
Nice guitar, Dutchie. Seriously, if it were mine, I would not do the mod. I have a badly refinned early '60's ES-125T single p-90 that I strangely love. I am a bridge pup kind of guy, but this 125 just screams with a certain lower midrange thing that I don't need any options when playing it. Since it is much aboused cosmetically, I am going to put a new finish on it and have some poster girl artwork done, though. IF it were as clean as yours, I wouldn't touch anything about it.
 

dlmorley

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Oct 25, 2002
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No point in doing it.
Sell it and buy a 2 pickup version. The difference will probably be the cost of hacking this one up.
Of course, it's yours to do what you want with, but I wouldn't.
 

professor

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Jul 22, 2001
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I guess I probably shouldn't bring up my plan to re-neck a Trini Lopez here, huh...?!?
 

Wally

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I guess I probably shouldn't bring up my plan to re-neck a Trini Lopez here, huh...?!?


Why not start a new thread just to keep the things separate. Sounds interesting? I never liked those headstocks on a Gibson anyway..
 

professor

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Why not start a new thread just to keep the things separate. Sounds interesting? I never liked those headstocks on a Gibson anyway..
Oh, I like the headstock. It's the pencil necks that don't work for me. ;-)
 

Wally

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Feb 27, 2003
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Professor, I hear that. IF it were not for the round profile, I would have to let go of my skiny necked '66 Es-345. The roundness fills my hand, and I can adapt....especially since I've known my old friend for 40 years.
Since we're going with this, here's a question. Is there a difference at the body joint between the wide and narrow neck Gibsons?
 
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Troels

Guest
I never liked those headstocks on a Gibson anyway..

...and I've never liked the f-ho... erhhh... holes... so what about a new top before the professor plays the shit out of the damn thing??? :) BTW... why not just glue a piece of wood right onto the neck??
 
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