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1952 ES-175 conversion help please

T

Troels

Guest
Who's got the guts to disturb that BEAUTIFUL old sunburst with a hole right where the sun is shining thru... ooohhhhhh :) I would NEVER do it!!!

T P...hmmm... = "Two Pickups..." or...?? :)
 

Frutiger

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Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
727
Please don't take a router to it!

I've also got a 1952 ES175 (mine's blonde though) & I would never do anything to it in any way. They're just too wonderful a guitar to butcher & imo the single pick-up is much prettier than the double too (plus I love the woody sound you get due to where the neck pick-up is)

As other people have said why don't you just try & get hold of a 175D instead? This would be a better option but this is just my 2p worth...
 

Dutch53GT

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Jan 18, 2006
Messages
669
After seeing those pictures I would get a new es-175 for gigging and keep the old one next to my bed.
 

professor

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Jul 22, 2001
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4,889
Rout it and play the shit out of it.


You only go 'round once, and life is WAY too short to play something other than what you want to be playing.
 

BillyB

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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
449
Rout it and play the shit out of it.


You only go 'round once, and life is WAY too short to play something other than what you want to be playing.

:applaude :dude:



If you intend to play rather than just staring at it on a guitar stand or showing it at dinner parties then do the above.
 

Dutch53GT

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Jan 18, 2006
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The guitar will live longer then you and me together.

If you take good care of it.

That doesn't mean you can't play it.
 
T

Troels

Guest
The guitar will live longer then you and me together.

If you take good care of it.

That doesn't mean you can't play it.

Exactly - and taken good care also includes keeping a guitar original.

Of course there are players guitars and collectors guitars - and there are something in between as well; players who actually gig with fine collectable guitars. I believe that an 1952 ES-175 and other finely crafted vintage guitars invites to a more sophisticated playing styles rather than playing "the shit out of it". With these types of guitars we are much more in the department of virtuousity where tones are produces as part of an art performed with brain, heart and fingersrather than plucking a piece of wood into a Marshall stack set on 10. And that's why it's normally not necessary to cut holes or change hardware. As a young player in the early 70s I destroyed at least 20 Stratocasters - many being fine instruments from the 60s - which I bought cheaply and changed just about everything - including bodies and necks. If I hadn't done that I could have sold them now (or my daugthers when I get a harp... (or a red hot coal bucket...)) for a fortune - but unfortunately such modified guitars are not worth much - and - for me personally these days - the thrill would be absolutely gone playing vintage guitars not being genuine and original in every sense.
 

professor

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Jul 22, 2001
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I play the shit out of my '53 175, and believe me, it ain't plugged into a Marshall stack.

And making a professional modification is hardly what I would call "destroying" an instrument.

Different strokes, I guess.
 
T

Troels

Guest
I play the shit out of my '53 175, and believe me, it ain't plugged into a Marshall stack.

And making a professional modification is hardly what I would call "destroying" an instrument.

Different strokes, I guess.


I mean destroying in the sense of losing up to 2/3 of the guitars vintage value... because it's no longer in original - and therefore desireable - condition. It's somehow like fixing a guitar pick up in a Stradivarius violin. It feels a bit tasteless to me... also if it was done as a professional modification, I'm afraid.
BTW... What means playing the shit out of a guitar??? Interesting to know what we means we put into different expressions. To me it doesn't sound like producing beautifull notes on a fine old guitar :) but rather more like The Ramones, Sex pistols or good old Townshend (of whom I've seen none playing the shit out of a vintage ES-175) treated their guitars.
 

keef

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Jan 27, 2002
Messages
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Does the guy who builds archtops for a living ever held or modified an original?

Held? - absolutely. Most archtops made by these luthiers are their own take on vintage instruments - e.g. the Charlie Christian ES 150 for Daniel Slaman's guitars, the big D'Angelicos for some of the other builders. I know they carefully studied vintage examples before completing their own designs. The sound and feel of these oldies were their primary inspiration for creating these guitars.

I've seen a few vintage archtop Gibsons in Slaman's shop that were in for repairs. Not sure about the other guys.

More importantly, these people are the best craftsmen you can find...if youi ever saw one of their instruments up close I am sure you will agree.

The one pup 175 is not rare, and will never be a holy grail instrument. I say rout the sucker - if that makes you happy.
 

professor

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I mean destroying in the sense of losing up to 2/3 of the guitars vintage value... because it's no longer in original - and therefore desireable - condition. It's somehow like fixing a guitar pick up in a Stradivarius violin. It feels a bit tasteless to me... also if it was done as a professional modification, I'm afraid.
BTW... What means playing the shit out of a guitar??? Interesting to know what we means we put into different expressions. To me it doesn't sound like producing beautifull notes on a fine old guitar :) but rather more like The Ramones, Sex pistols or good old Townshend (of whom I've seen none playing the shit out of a vintage ES-175) treated their guitars.
You might lose some value to the AVH crowd, but there will be PLENTLY of guys who will appreciate the addition of the bridge pickup, and for whom it would be an improvement. It all depends on how it's done. If it's a butcher job, that's one thing. If it looks like it was there all along, that's another.

As for me, I'm not Johnny Smith, coaxing "Moonlight in Vermont" out of my guitar. But I am playing high-energy West Coast and Chicago-style blues and R&B, and I definitely ain't babying my guitar.

Some guys get it, others don't. Not the end of the world. :ganz
 
T

Troels

Guest
You might lose some value to the AVH crowd, but there will be PLENTLY of guys who will appreciate the addition of the bridge pickup, and for whom it would be an improvement. It all depends on how it's done. If it's a butcher job, that's one thing. If it looks like it was there all along, that's another.

As for me, I'm not Johnny Smith, coaxing "Moonlight in Vermont" out of my guitar. But I am playing high-energy West Coast and Chicago-style blues and R&B, and I definitely ain't babying my guitar.

Some guys get it, others don't. Not the end of the world. :ganz

You are right about that there will be plenty of buyers to such a guitar... but they will get it for a lot less than other guys would pay for it with no mods. And it's not necessarily yourself who are about to sell it - maybe it's your kids or your grandchildren... (if it's a keeper for you). Another aspect is that many, many things produced these days are not exactly made to last. Many things will be gone within few years. So maybe we should treat some of yesterdays things with a bit care simply to keep them around. BTW - like you I don't baby my guitars - but I don't treat them with abuse either - I treat my guitars like I treat my furnitures, my cars and my properties.
 
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T

Troels

Guest
That's just plain wrong. Gibson made 'em with two pickups for a reason.

You'll miss the sound of two pups in connection... but a one pu guitar can be much more challenging... they are fun to play and you never have to think about which pu to use :)
 

professor

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Jul 22, 2001
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You'll miss the sound of two pups in connection... but a one pu guitar can be much more challenging... they are fun to play and you never have to think about which pu to use :)
Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Maybe "more challenging" can also mean "less versatile"...

Think of a single-pickup Strat, for example. :ganz

Besides, it's not like he's talking about putting a Floyd Rose on there... just doing something that Gibson routinely did to their 175s.
 

ES345

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Aug 13, 2006
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I have an Eastman, about 2 1/2 hollowbody, spruce top, everything else is ebony, a beautiful looking, playing, sounding guitar, i sometimes use the middle position to obtain the tone/sound i want, i am generally playing with a base player and a singer, but that is about 15% of the time it just fits the room better sometimes. all of my other guitars with two humbuckers are generally used on the neck pickup only, about 95% of the time. So i really like the option of having two even tho i rarely use the bridge or middle position, and this goes for the guild x 175, washburn montegomery. I would easily deal with one pickup, and look at Wes, i just got his new dvd, gerat personal look at him conversing etc., not to digress too much.

I would personally leave it alone, one pickup will get the job done for jazz, the dude from "Yes", old age creeping in, i can't remember his name he may have used other than the neck, but for me and what i do the neck is what i need, so i wouldn't modify, but it is yours and you know what you are looking for tone wise.

If you decide to do, don't skimp on getting the best person, it would be a major tragedy to have something happen during the process by someone other than a real pro.


peace
 

Dutch53GT

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Jan 18, 2006
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669
In the 70's people thought drilling 6 holes in a 1953 LP GT was a very good idea, cuz it worked a lot better than the original bridge.

Not a holy grail, but still a shame.....
Did it make the guitar better? Did it hurt the value? Was it a pro mod?
 

58dutchie

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Aug 31, 2006
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You might lose some value to the AVH crowd, but there will be PLENTLY of guys who will appreciate the addition of the bridge pickup, and for whom it would be an improvement. It all depends on how it's done. If it's a butcher job, that's one thing. If it looks like it was there all along, that's another.

As for me, I'm not Johnny Smith, coaxing "Moonlight in Vermont" out of my guitar. But I am playing high-energy West Coast and Chicago-style blues and R&B, and I definitely ain't babying my guitar.

Some guys get it, others don't. Not the end of the world. :ganz

Well, I might add something to this discussion (after all it's my guitar); I don't play jazz on it, just high energy blues like Professor. I love to play that guitar, I won't be selling it and like Professor said, Gibson made them with two pickups also. So if it can be done in a way that you won't be able to see the difference with a genuine ES-175D, I really don't see the problem. Still have to think it over...:hmm
 
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