Wood grain question.....

mmukav · May 25, 2007

As you can see on my avatar, my LPVM has some circular grain on the top, and a similar (but opposite side) circular grain pattern on the back. I picked it out because I liked the way it looks.

My question pertains to grain pattern and tone, sustain, sound. Would a straight grained top resonate more evenly, and what effect would that have on these factors. Would my circular pattern ring out unevenly, would the wood cells not be able to vibrate off each other in a straight line? Does that make a difference? And if it did, what difference?

mmcquain · May 25, 2007

I don't think the wood grain pattern makes a big difference. My R0 (below) has a similar circular grain pattern on the left (top) side and it sustains and resonates just fine. A lot of the old 50's Gibson had different kinds of grain patterns (as do many current models) - some sound good and some don't so much - but I don't think the grain pattern is the determining factor... just my 2 cents.

scozz50 · May 25, 2007

I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.

mmukav · May 25, 2007

No Scozz, no sweat here, just a curious mind! I started to think about my acoustics, and how much the wood really vibrates. I know with an acoustic guitar or mandolin, there's a break-in period. You know, they refer to it as an instrument 'opening up." I've witnessed it mostly on the 2 mandolins I've owned. Other forums I've read talked about the wood cells 'lining up' after the instruments been played a while. I just was curious to see if anyone knew if solid-body guitars were effected like that. :ganz

Randy64 · May 25, 2007

Actually, i think its a pretty cool question, i would like to know the anser of as well if at all possible,

delawaregold · May 25, 2007

I have seen a couple of articles that have discussed the
mineral content and amount of oil in the wood affecting the
woods tone. I have heard Eastern Maple, because it’s harder,
being called “bell like”, and tight grained wood, that is wood
that has the growth rings closer together, is supposed to have
better tone.

sokinwet · May 25, 2007

One of my hobbies is making wood turkey "box calls". For those unfamiliar, picture a wooden "dugout" with a hinged lid that scrapes over the rails of the dugout to make the sound. Like fingernails on a chalkboard! Tight grain and grain orientation are very important with the ideal configuration being tight grained, cupped up and horizontal. The vibration of the rails that produces the sound is obviously much more intense than a guitar tops vibration so how much effect the grain pattern has on the guitar..?? I doubt you could hear it. A point to ponder (puts on bulletproof vest) Generally figured woods (quilted, burst, etc.) are not desirable for working calls as most callmakers feel figured woods are not the best tone producers!:couch

Beano Geno · May 25, 2007

sokinwet said:
One of my hobbies is making wood turkey "box calls". For those unfamiliar, picture a wooden "dugout" with a hinged lid that scrapes over the rails of the dugout to make the sound. Like fingernails on a chalkboard! Tight grain and grain orientation are very important with the ideal configuration being tight grained, cupped up and horizontal. The vibration of the rails that produces the sound is obviously much more intense than a guitar tops vibration so how much effect the grain pattern has on the guitar..?? I doubt you could hear it. A point to ponder (puts on bulletproof vest) Generally figured woods (quilted, burst, etc.) are not desirable for working calls as most callmakers feel figured woods are not the best tone producers!:couch

No need to hide behind the couch. You gave some information that may be relevant. Thanks!:salude

lanman · May 25, 2007

I have always thought that the difference between a "killer" guitar and one that is a "dud" one serial number off.....has to be in the density characteristics of the wood as a conductor of sound and the alignment of the grains of wood at the glue contact points in such a way that the the vibrations just ring in a free-flow throughout the guitar or are directed to the right spots. I always thought the "duds" had a blockage of vibration either in the wood itself or the glue contact points. I read somewhere that Stratovarious Violins were made from select tone woods (obviously) and matching of grain patterns were factored in at all of the contact points.

Of course I have no idea what the hell I am talking about factually...it has always been my "laymans" way of explaining why some guitars "sing" and others "gag".

Randy64 · May 25, 2007

sokinwet said:
One of my hobbies is making wood turkey "box calls". For those unfamiliar, picture a wooden "dugout" with a hinged lid that scrapes over the rails of the dugout to make the sound. Like fingernails on a chalkboard! Tight grain and grain orientation are very important with the ideal configuration being tight grained, cupped up and horizontal. The vibration of the rails that produces the sound is obviously much more intense than a guitar tops vibration so how much effect the grain pattern has on the guitar..?? I doubt you could hear it. A point to ponder (puts on bulletproof vest) Generally figured woods (quilted, burst, etc.) are not desirable for working calls as most callmakers feel figured woods are not the best tone producers!:couch

Cool, i was wondering about the Grain thing as well, thanks for the info, i think its a really cool question myself,

Wire and wood · May 27, 2007

It's all part of a vast area of physics that science hasn't caught up with yet. Factors like sun spots, gravitational pull, hours of daylight during the trees growth, relative humidity on the day the guitarmaker was born as well as atomic density of the coloring pigments used all affect it. So do astrological factors and background music in the shop where it was made. I won't even begin to go into the effect that the earth's uneven spin about it's axis produces.
In other words, it's mojo! :hmm

mmukav · May 28, 2007

"It's all part of a vast area of physics that science hasn't caught up with yet. Factors like sun spots, gravitational pull, hours of daylight during the trees growth, relative humidity on the day the guitarmaker was born as well as atomic density of the coloring pigments used all affect it. So do astrological factors and background music in the shop where it was made. I won't even begin to go into the effect that the earth's uneven spin about it's axis produces.
In other words, it's mojo!"

Mojo! That's it! Mojo produces Good Vibrations! :applaude

Trans-Am · May 28, 2007

There's a write-up about the symetry travels of the sound/waves with certain grain on BOTB on the back.

Peace!:hank

lanman · May 28, 2007

Wire and wood said:
It's all part of a vast area of physics that science hasn't caught up with yet. Factors like sun spots, gravitational pull, hours of daylight during the trees growth, relative humidity on the day the guitarmaker was born as well as atomic density of the coloring pigments used all affect it. So do astrological factors and background music in the shop where it was made. I won't even begin to go into the effect that the earth's uneven spin about it's axis produces.
In other words, it's mojo! :hmm

Thanks bro.....That's some funny shit right there!

ashbong · Jul 19, 2018

Quite an interesting question and the replies are really helpful and knowledgeable. Enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed reading about how to clean your bong. I am particularly amazed at how different types of wood affect the quality of the sound a guitar makes, all along I thought wood type doesn't matter and was just a matter of durability.

Big Al · Jul 20, 2018

First, acoustic guitars and turkey calls have zero in common with how tone or sound is produced in a solidbody. No, grain type/figure has no acoustic or discerning effect. Wood type, maple, mahogany etc. for laminated tops seem to have more noticeable effect on attack or front of note followed by the bodywoods effect after the attack.

renderit · Jul 20, 2018

I am firmly in the camp of:

"A test for a basis of a hypothesis of woods grains ability to effect auditory milestones must begin with accepted standards and multiple test scenarios proven by separate tests ideally performed by different testers . Since any theory can NEVER be reproduced in two guitars because no two pieces of wood are EVER going to be anything other than 'similar' due to the very grain structure we are questioning, no wood grain type can ever be proven to effect or not to effect the resonance, tone, sustain, etc. and no MEANINGFUL results will ever be obtained".

Which is roughly the same as "God is laughing at us!".

But I am an idiot, so there is that to take as a basis for your own hypothesis...

And interestingly enough I just answered my own nagging question about something in programming which has bothered me for the last 4ish decades that I just figured out how to solve!

El Gringo · Jul 20, 2018

renderit said:
I am firmly in the camp of:

"A test for a basis of a hypothesis of woods grains ability to effect auditory milestones must begin with accepted standards and multiple test scenarios proven by separate tests ideally performed by different testers . Since any theory can NEVER be reproduced in two guitars because no two pieces of wood are EVER going to be anything other than 'similar' due to the very grain structure we are questioning, no wood grain type can ever be proven to effect or not to effect the resonance, tone, sustain, etc. and no MEANINGFUL results will ever be obtained".

Which is roughly the same as "God is laughing at us!".

But I am an idiot, so there is that to take as a basis for your own hypothesis...

And interestingly enough I just answered my own nagging question about something in programming which has bothered me for the last 4ish decades that I just figured out how to solve!

Would it be rude of me to be curious of your last comment ?

Big Al · Jul 22, 2018

renderit said:
I am firmly in the camp of:

"A test for a basis of a hypothesis of woods grains ability to effect auditory milestones must begin with accepted standards and multiple test scenarios proven by separate tests ideally performed by different testers . Since any theory can NEVER be reproduced in two guitars because no two pieces of wood are EVER going to be anything other than 'similar' due to the very grain structure we are questioning, no wood grain type can ever be proven to effect or not to effect the resonance, tone, sustain, etc. and no MEANINGFUL results will ever be obtained".

Which is roughly the same as "God is laughing at us!".

But I am an idiot, so there is that to take as a basis for your own hypothesis...

And interestingly enough I just answered my own nagging question about something in programming which has bothered me for the last 4ish decades that I just figured out how to solve!

True enough Ren, for a guitar. However if say quartersawn maple had a definite tonal effect it would be noticeable in aggregate. The distinction would present itself in the same manner all such distinct audible singularities were discoverd. By being heard. Grain, figure, number of pieces etc... haven't presented singular sonics.

Wood grain question.....

mmukav

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mmcquain

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scozz50

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mmukav

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Randy64

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delawaregold

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sokinwet

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Wire and wood

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