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  1. #121
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    [QUOTE=Cody;2240646]Shipping records from '58-'59 show 98 Flying V's, and something else called "Korina (Mod.gtr)" - 22 shipped.

    I thought that the Gibson shipping records for the '58 to 60 period had been missing for years. Who's got them?

    Regards

    Rob

  2. #122

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    I played Allen Collins Explorer briefly at his house shortly after he got it from Gruhn. It had an 8- serial#, with a huge neck, a very light finish, higher action than his renecked Firebird, and the pickups adjusted very low level with the pickup rings. He told me about the live album that would be coming out next---everyone was wondering about that! He also said they had switched to Peavey amps because they had a "main volume" (Master volume) that could be turned down and still get a good sound because Ronnie's voice was not holding up!

  3. #123

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk7qCFH1Vq4

    at 2:46 there is Billy Gibbons with an Explorer

  4. #124
    Les Paul Forum Member Luke Gibson's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip's Music View Post
    I played Allen Collins Explorer briefly at his house shortly after he got it from Gruhn. It had an 8- serial#, with a huge neck, a very light finish, higher action than his renecked Firebird, and the pickups adjusted very low level with the pickup rings. He told me about the live album that would be coming out next---everyone was wondering about that! He also said they had switched to Peavey amps because they had a "main volume" (Master volume) that could be turned down and still get a good sound because Ronnie's voice was not holding up!

    Very Cool Chip, I met you a few years ago and you let me see one of their old Marshall amps! (...and play your GT!!!)
    Lost in the middle of a Brazillian rosewood
    fingerboard......

    http://s97.photobucket.com/home/LukeGibson69

  5. #125

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip's Music View Post
    I played Allen Collins Explorer briefly at his house shortly after he got it from Gruhn. It had an 8- serial#, with a huge neck, a very light finish, higher action than his renecked Firebird, and the pickups adjusted very low level with the pickup rings.
    Can you tell something about the wight of that guitar?
    Somewhere on this forum I read that one of Claptons Explorers is very heavy.

  6. #126

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers


  7. #127
    Les Paul Forum Member Otto 57's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleo View Post
    No follow up on this one? I'd love to hear more about it. The s/n font looks like it might be ok, especially if it was in a flood and the ink expanded somewhat. Any opinions from the members here?

  8. #128
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip's Music View Post
    I played Allen Collins Explorer briefly at his house shortly after he got it from Gruhn. It had an 8- serial#, with a huge neck, a very light finish, higher action than his renecked Firebird, and the pickups adjusted very low level with the pickup rings. He told me about the live album that would be coming out next---everyone was wondering about that! He also said they had switched to Peavey amps because they had a "main volume" (Master volume) that could be turned down and still get a good sound because Ronnie's voice was not holding up!
    Man that has got to be one of the coolest things I've ever heard of. !st I would of loved to have met Allen Collins and 2nd I've wondered for yrs what was the ser # on Allens' Explorer. I would give anything to have seen it in person. Thanks man very cool story.

  9. #129

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Perry Margouleff seems to own or have owned an original Explorer.


  10. #130

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Hope this thread stays active for a long time. I have been collecting Explorer's since the 80's. A 76 Limited Edition Explorer was the first real quality guitar I played and it took me to a whole new level. After that I couldn't get enough quality guitars.

    I have talked to a lot of dealers and collectors over the years and here are a couple things that come to mind.

    More Explorer's left the factory in the 60's than were sold in 58/59. I heard this more than once.

    The years 62/63 were not the only years for left over Explorers. A few were sold in 60/61 and several after 63. There were a couple that left the factory in the early 70's and a finished one that remained at the Kalamazoo factory well into the 80's.

    Not all the Korina Explorer's were built to be sold. Some were built personally by employees and some may have even been built outside of the plant. I heard of these stolen part Explorer's several times in the 80's.

    Not all 60's Explorer's got nickel hardware. There are a few original examples with gold.

    More than a few 60's Explorer's had black pickguards. The reason you don't see a lot more now is because many of them had the pickguard changed to white to match the earlier ones.

    I have seen white 3 ply, white 4 ply and black 3 ply front pickguards. All of the jack plates have been black 3 ply. I have seen solid brown, solid white and black 5 ply on the back control plate. I am not sure on the solid white back plate being original as it was a little thin and left a pretty high lip of wood around the edge. The rest I have seen a few examples of each and am pretty sure on, but one never knows.

    Just a bit of new info for the moment to chew on in this great thread.

  11. #131
    Reedy
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    This is a great thread, I can't believe that I haven't stumbled on before now. I'm a little bit fascinated by these guitars too. It started a while a go when I was considering building one of these for myself and I started researching them. I'm trying to attach a little spread sheet of the details that I've been collecting on these but I can't attach files for some reason so here is a link to a PDF version.

    http://www.pdfhost.net/index.php?Act...ac85d8406b8b17


    I have an additional number that the list on here and that is 8-4563 which is or was reportedly owned by Neil Young. I found the list of numbers posted here really helpful I changed my spreadsheet and I think the list much more complete. My count is 38 guitars which seems to fit well with the idea of a batch of 40 being made originally.

    I haven only included information on guitars that I have seen decent photos of and that also show the serial number of the guitar. If anyone else has information that they'd like to share or if you see that there are mistakes on here let me know and I'll update the list and repost it. It would be great to have a comprehensive list on details on these guitars. Likewise, if there are any other characteristics that anyone feels should be tracked I can add that too. I just picked the things that were of interest to me. The characteristic about the 2 piece body I find interesting as Phil Jones, the builder that worked for Gibson creating the Custom Shop reissues said that he used an original that had a 2 piece body and the join was on the bass side of the body just above the bridge. Apparently it was an explorer owned by Alan Hardtke but I don't know the serial number or have any other information.

    I've also included some information on one very good replica I saw for sale on eBAy awhile ago and the Takeshi explorer which I'm not sure is original given the serial number.

  12. #132

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    I noticed the two known prototypes aren't listed.



  13. #133

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Does anyone think this one is genuine? Serial # 8-1431:


    The headstock looks nothing like the other known/verified prototypes. Is there any evidence this is factory Gibson?

  14. #134
    Reedy
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderne View Post
    Does anyone think this one is genuine? Serial # 8-1431:


    The headstock looks nothing like the other known/verified prototypes. Is there any evidence this is factory Gibson?
    From what I've read the single "G" logo was used on some of the early models as Gibson wasn't sure about using their standard logo on these guitars. I think there is at least one real Flying Vee that has the same thing. As for the prototypes, those are Futuras, I'm assuming the Explorers with the split headstocks represent the redesign of the Futura, in essence, the Explorer prototype(s).

  15. #135

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Reedy View Post
    From what I've read the single "G" logo was used on some of the early models as Gibson wasn't sure about using their standard logo on these guitars. I think there is at least one real Flying Vee that has the same thing. As for the prototypes, those are Futuras, I'm assuming the Explorers with the split headstocks represent the redesign of the Futura, in essence, the Explorer prototype(s).
    I have heard about the V with the "G" logo but have never seen it or any photos of it. Do you have any photos of it?

  16. #136
    Reedy
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    No, sorry no pictures of the V. The only photos I've seen witht eh "G" logo are of the explorers and one J-200 acoustic that had an explorer style neck on it that was supposedly made for the same NAMM show in '57.

  17. #137

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Reedy View Post
    No, sorry no pictures of the V. The only photos I've seen witht eh "G" logo are of the explorers and one J-200 acoustic that had an explorer style neck on it that was supposedly made for the same NAMM show in '57.
    more than one Explorer had the inlaid "G"?

  18. #138
    All Access/Backstage Pass Cody's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderne View Post
    more than one Explorer had the inlaid "G"?
    In Duchossoir's "Classic Years", a scimitar hs Ex has the G inlay... Also, there are either a few split hs ones, or it's just one that gets around a lot.

  19. #139
    Les Paul Forum Member Humbuck's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Never seen a V with a G.

    In your face.

  20. #140
    Reedy
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    I've never seen a vintage V with any sort of inlay on the headstock either. If it's true that Gibson only used the "G" because they weren't sure of using their name it makes sense then that they would simply leave off the raised plastic logo on the V's rather than inlay them with somethign else. Besides, I don't think the Vs have a holly veneer on the headstock.
    Last edited by Reedy; 08-26-13 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Typo

  21. #141
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    The only photos I've seen witht eh "G" logo are of the explorers and one J-200 acoustic that had an explorer style neck on it that was supposedly made for the same NAMM show in '57.
    I think my heart actually stopped beating when I read this!

    I GOT to see that J-200!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. #142
    Reedy
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by abalonevintage View Post
    I think my heart actually stopped beating when I read this!

    I GOT to see that J-200!!!!!!!!!!!
    I just learned about this the other day, funny enough. I've seen a reprint of the picture from the original article. The guitar was owned by a man named Benny Joy. The photo of him with the guitar is from a 1965 magazine called “Country Song Hits” which did an article on him. There is a photo of him holding his acoustic guitar that has and explorer shaped headstock with a single “G” on it.

    I read about it in this book, there's a copy of the photo in there: The Strat in the Attic: Thrilling Stories of Guitar Archaeology. By Deke Dickerson

  23. #143
    Les Paul Forum Member kadowaki's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary Flametop View Post
    Hope this thread stays active for a long time. I have been collecting Explorer's since the 80's. A 76 Limited Edition Explorer was the first real quality guitar I played and it took me to a whole new level. After that I couldn't get enough quality guitars.

    I have talked to a lot of dealers and collectors over the years and here are a couple things that come to mind.

    More Explorer's left the factory in the 60's than were sold in 58/59. I heard this more than once.

    The years 62/63 were not the only years for left over Explorers. A few were sold in 60/61 and several after 63. There were a couple that left the factory in the early 70's and a finished one that remained at the Kalamazoo factory well into the 80's.

    Not all the Korina Explorer's were built to be sold. Some were built personally by employees and some may have even been built outside of the plant. I heard of these stolen part Explorer's several times in the 80's.

    Not all 60's Explorer's got nickel hardware. There are a few original examples with gold.

    More than a few 60's Explorer's had black pickguards. The reason you don't see a lot more now is because many of them had the pickguard changed to white to match the earlier ones.

    I have seen white 3 ply, white 4 ply and black 3 ply front pickguards. All of the jack plates have been black 3 ply. I have seen solid brown, solid white and black 5 ply on the back control plate. I am not sure on the solid white back plate being original as it was a little thin and left a pretty high lip of wood around the edge. The rest I have seen a few examples of each and am pretty sure on, but one never knows.

    Just a bit of new info for the moment to chew on in this great thread.
    This post is a listing of the justifications that have been purported for all the forgeries!

  24. #144

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleo View Post
    Perry Margouleff seems to own or have owned an original Explorer.

    Perry has a number of them

  25. #145

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    This thread gets my vote for one of the best of all time.
    Funny because the info on here is better, more accurate, and more complete than anything that I have ever read from guitar experts and authors, in books, elsewhere on the web.
    A book strictly documenting these 40 or so guitars would be fascinating. I would read it.

  26. #146
    Les Paul Forum Member 59gibson's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by abalonevintage View Post
    I think my heart actually stopped beating when I read this!

    I GOT to see that J-200!!!!!!!!!!!
    A little late to this thread, but Eric, ask and you will receive.
    From my memory, I received these pics back in 2006.






  27. #147
    Les Paul Forum Member mingus's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Wow! Great thread.
    .

    "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

    - Bill Watterson, creator of the comic strip "Calvin and Hobbes".

  28. #148
    Les Paul Forum Member Frutiger's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    That J-200 is just bizarre!

  29. #149

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by 59gibson View Post
    A little late to this thread, but Eric, ask and you will receive.
    From my memory, I received these pics back in 2006.





    Whoa...

    I'm saying YES and NO at the same time! YNESO?

    I'm so confused!

  30. #150
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks for that. Made my day!

  31. #151
    Les Paul Forum Member apossibleworld's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    goo gah ga gahh goo guuuuhhhhh

    j200 gaaaaaaaaa

  32. #152

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMiniMite View Post
    Very interesting picture!
    Check out the neck tenon in that shot on the bottom right. If I'm not mistaken, the original Explorers had a neck tenon that actually extended so long that it went beyond the neck pickup cavity. The neck tenon on this Futura looks similar to a standard Les Paul tenon of that era, which I think is interesting. I wish I knew more about Futura specs
    I know this is an old thread, but since this ties in with a current project of mine--

    The answer is simple: the "Futura", like the Les Paul, had a 16-fret neck, so the 4-inch tenon wound up under the neck pickup. Production Explorers and V's had 19-fret necks, so the tenon stuck about 2 inches further into the body.

  33. #153

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by shuie View Post
    The ribbons in the wood around the knobs and on the back make it look like its made of African Mahogany, IMO. Although African Mahogany looks very similar to real mahogany, its not really Mahogany at all.
    The best Honduras mahogany demonstrates lovely ribbon figure if quartersawn. One reason African "mahogany" (sapele) has become so popular is that it mimics the ribbon figure of good Honduras.

  34. #154
    Les Paul Forum Member latestarter's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Thanks for highlighting this thread...great reading...
    Otherwise known as Grant.

  35. #155
    Les Paul Forum Member Three13's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Reedy View Post
    I have an additional number that the list on here and that is 8-4563 which is or was reportedly owned by Neil Young. I found the list of numbers posted here really helpful I changed my spreadsheet and I think the list much more complete. My count is 38 guitars which seems to fit well with the idea of a batch of 40 being made originally.
    Neil's Explorer was sold via Perry into the Ziff vault, I think.

  36. #156

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    FWIW, this guy in England claims to have owned two more: 8 3359 & 8 6989. Incidentally, in the main article Nielsen only says he owns two, not three; this accords with my feeling that "8 1008" isn't real. http://www.guitaraficionado.com/rick...-explorer.html

  37. #157
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Three13 View Post
    Neil's Explorer was sold via Perry into the Ziff vault, I think.
    Perry collects '58 LP's so it would make sense that he has an Explorer or two.
    Ron Lucas

  38. #158
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Back in the late `70's a good friend of mine & I built an Explorer. Now there's no way it could ever be sold as a Gibson because we inlayed his last name on the headstock "Reeder". That is unless someone overlayed the peghead with a new Holly veneer. But we built in around `76 or `77. I know he sold it to Norm a year or so later, but this was when we both lived in So. Texas. I'd love to know where it's ended up.. (BTW, "Reeder" inlayed looked better than "Butler" and the guitar was his idea to begin with).
    If anyone comes across this, please let me know. It was Honduran Mahogany and a Braz board.

  39. #159
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    I can add another (unverified) number to this list. The December 2014 issue of Guitar World has a full-page ad on page 13 for www.privatereserveguitars.com. The image is of a white-guard Explorer with text that reads "Gibson Custom 1958. Mahogany Explorer. serial No. 85433, 7.65 lb.".
    I don't see it listed anywhere else in this thread. It has a few things that look a bit odd to me - seems to have a gold selector, strap button and pickup screws with everything else nickel, but that could just be the light in the photograph.

  40. #160

    Re: My list of known original '58 through '63 korina Explorer serial numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by dazzaman View Post
    I can add another (unverified) number to this list. The December 2014 issue of Guitar World has a full-page ad on page 13 for www.privatereserveguitars.com. The image is of a white-guard Explorer with text that reads "Gibson Custom 1958. Mahogany Explorer. serial No. 85433, 7.65 lb.".
    I don't see it listed anywhere else in this thread. It has a few things that look a bit odd to me - seems to have a gold selector, strap button and pickup screws with everything else nickel, but that could just be the light in the photograph.
    I just pulled that up and it is a reissue:
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...lectric-guitar

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