Sustain Problems on SG 61R?

Dave G · Nov 24, 2006

JonnyMangia said:
Dave,

Since you've been playing SG's for 26 years, how would you describe their hallmark sounds? With LPs I think of oozing sustain, warmth and creaminess. SG's seem more open, cutting and middy. Agree?

I absolutely agree. Between my brother & I, we've probably owned 30 SGs over the years. I've also owned several Les Pauls, Strats, Teles and assorted other guitars.

All of the SGs I've owned have their own characteristics but they definately are more open, cutting & middy.

My main guitar for a long time was a 68 SG standard. The past 16 years I have been using a 62 SG/Les Paul which sounds fatter than my 68 did but still has that cutting tone.

535faultless · Nov 25, 2006

If you think a 61 RI lacks ustain, then try an SG standard. It has way more beef in the neck joint, and the neck joins the body at a different fret. I personally think they out muscle the 61 RI's all day long.

justonwo · Nov 25, 2006

Wow, I have an SG Classic and it sustains every bit as well as my Les Paul Standard and R6. Maybe I just got lucky or my Les Pauls suck.

If you're having sustain issues below the the twelfth fret, do you have enough relief in the neck? Perhaps try loosening the truss rod?

I might also suggest making sure your bridge is nice and tight, though the bridge on my SG is totally sloppy loose (so much so that it actually tilts forward) in the anchors and it still sustains really well.

John B. · Nov 25, 2006

I wanted more sustain & harmonics from my '90 SG Standard "Batwing" so I put the TonePros locking aluminum stopbar along with their locking ABR bridge (a mod I do on all my Gibsons). Tremendous improvement, more airy sounding. Makes the guitars louder acoustically - really gets that beautiful wood singing. If you really want a guitar to sing, try higher action - there is a sweet spot. When you first do it you might get a little buzzing from the string to fret angle change; this goes away as it settles in. I use 10-46 strings and with the high action it sings like a Stradivarius. Jimi Hendrix, Peter Green, Mike Bloomfield, B.B. King, Albert King, Stevie Ray and Jimmy V. all had their guitars set up with high action. When you bend a string it rings like a bell, and your finger tip can slip underneath the nearby strings, instead of pushing against them. Listen to Albert King "Live at the Fillmore"...

P.S. Elliot you should of used Tonepros on your signature model!:fc

John B. · Nov 25, 2006

gavindale said:
It may be a case of incorrectly adjusted pickups. If they are too close to the strings the magnetic pull will kill sustain. I have lowered almost all of mine in my collection till all the harmonics ring true and have found the sustain has[e!!!] increased a[c!!!]cross the board. Plus it's GC........

Gavindales right! That's also a really important issue. The habit of adjusting the pickups high is a bad habit of the 70's that hasn't gone away. Players did this to drive the preamp into distortion easier - too nasal! Lower your pickups and get a more airy sound with more sustain and it will let you open up the power section of the amp. Power tube distortion sounds way better!:dude:

Also I filled and retapped the bridge posts as they had become loose, and put a second set of fingerwheels on the bottom of the posts (flush against the guitar) for more stability and greater coupling.:applaude

Todd Louis · Nov 25, 2006

The Problem with the Historic LP/SG with the Mistro is Most of them the Mistro is not Bent low enuff and you get a very shallow Break angel off the Bridge causing Sustain Problems. I had one with this and Sold it. Gibson has the Mistro wrong it's a problem that they have not addressed yet. In order for the Guitar to play right you have to raise the action really high...

There better with the Stop..

John B. · Nov 25, 2006

Todd Louis said:
The Problem with the Historic LP/SG with the Mistro is Most of them the Mistro is not Bent low enuff and you get a very shallow Break angel off the Bridge causing Sustain Problems. I had one with this and Sold it. Gibson has the Mistro wrong it's a problem that they have not addressed yet. In order for the Guitar to play right you have to raise the action really high...

There better with the Stop..

Good point, I agree!

JonnyMangia · Nov 25, 2006

John B. said:
Good point, I agree!

Great post John. Are you familiar with the 61Ri? It has the thinner neck and the joint meets at the 22nd fret. The Standard, as most of us know, sports the thicker neck and the joint meets at the 19th fret. Do you feel that due to these differences the Standard would have the ability to sustain more due to more mass through the neck?

John B. · Nov 25, 2006

Jonny, I had a '67 Custom reissue, I got rid of (I wish I hadn't!). It had the large "batwing" pickguard with 3 pickups, and the neck joined at the 22nd fret - but the neck wasn't as thin as the 61RI. Years ago, I had an original Les Paul/SG - but it had a real thick neck - which makes me think it could have been a '62. Back then, in the early 70's, nobody thought about serial numbers and dates. And then there is the SG Standard. My problem with the 22nd fret neck join of the 61RI is the neck feels awkwardly too long, and I think they went for the thinner neck profile because they are notoriously neck heavy - so that when you let go the neck drops. On the other hand, the 19th fret neck joint of the Standard helps correct this balance problem, and the more substantial neck joint helps prevent neck breakage. As to sustain, I think the more substantial neck joint of the Standard helps fatten things up in combination with a thicker neck. I think, in terms of general structure, sustain is most easily achieved with a fatter neck and a lighter body - the lighter wood tends to be more resonant. This concept is pretty widely know amongst the Les Paul players, that is why many times they prefer a lighter weight Les Paul with a fat neck. Although I think if you get one too light it is not necessarily ideal. But all this being said, it is a case by case issue. I have a Les Paul Custom that is fairly heavy but resonates nicely; but it has a tighter sound than my 58RI which is more open and reedy/woody sounding. Going back to SGs, what the 61RI has going for it is the one piece body, and I'm not sure if this is always the case - but my 67RI had a one piece body and it rang like a bell. Oh if they would only return to using hyde glue! When it dries it crystallizes - very resonant. The modern glues tend to be more rubbery. And if you have a three piece body, we can guess what this can mean. But then again my Standard is three piece but still very resonant. This can get very confusing but if you take it one guitar at a time you can find a good one or a bad example of any of the guitars mentioned. When I shop for guitars, I begin by tapping on the wood - if it doesn't ring, I don't even pick it up.:fc

JonnyMangia · Nov 25, 2006

John B. said:
Jonny, I had a '67 Custom reissue, I got rid of (I wish I hadn't!). It had the large "batwing" pickguard with 3 pickups, and the neck joined at the 22nd fret - but the neck wasn't as thin as the 61RI. Years ago, I had an original Les Paul/SG - but it had a real thick neck - which makes me think it could have been a '62. Back then, in the early 70's, nobody thought about serial numbers and dates. And then there is the SG Standard. My problem with the 22nd fret neck join of the 61RI is the neck feels awkwardly too long, and I think they went for the thinner neck profile because they are notoriously neck heavy - so that when you let go the neck drops. On the other hand, the 19th fret neck joint of the Standard helps correct this balance problem, and the more substantial neck joint helps prevent neck breakage. As to sustain, I think the more substantial neck joint of the Standard helps fatten things up in combination with a thicker neck. I think, in terms of general structure, sustain is most easily achieved with a fatter neck and a lighter body - the lighter wood tends to be more resonant. This concept is pretty widely know amongst the Les Paul players, that is why many times they prefer a lighter weight Les Paul with a fat neck. Although I think if you get one too light it is not necessarily ideal. But all this being said, it is a case by case issue. I have a Les Paul Custom that is fairly heavy but resonates nicely; but it has a tighter sound than my 58RI which is more open and reedy/woody sounding. Going back to SGs, what the 61RI has going for it is the one piece body, and I'm not sure if this is always the case - but my 67RI had a one piece body and it rang like a bell. Oh if they would only return to using hyde glue! When it dries it crystallizes - very resonant. The modern glues tend to be more rubbery. And if you have a three piece body, we can guess what this can mean. But then again my Standard is three piece but still very resonant. This can get very confusing but if you take it one guitar at a time you can find a good one or a bad example of any of the guitars mentioned. When I shop for guitars, I begin by tapping on the wood - if it doesn't ring, I don't even pick it up.:fc

I'm going to sound like an idiot, but when you tap the wood are you listening for a literal "ring".? Do you place your ear on the body or should it be discernable w/o doing that?

Cream Fan · Nov 26, 2006

It's funny, but I've owned many SGs, two that I still own. My oldest guitar, i.e. the one I've held onto longest is a '61 SG/LP that I bought in '84 and previously owned by Rick Nielsen. Killer guitar and always has been. The side to side Vibrola is usesless as a vibrato but makes a great counterweight and sustain block. If you looked at the string break angle at the bridge You'd laugh, as it's nearly flat. But the guitar kicks butt. I'll never sell it unless I have to. And my '64 Clapton SG is right up there with it, even with all that paint on it. Obviously, wood quality is even more critical on SGs, be they vintage or modern.

Dave G · Nov 26, 2006

While were on SGs, here is a pic of my SG90. 24 frets on a 25.5" scale neck, ebony fretboard, one piece mahogany body & one piece mahogany neck.

Single coil in the neck, humbucker at the bridge which switches to a single coil with the volume knob.

The strings mount thru the body. Weighs about 6lbs and sustains like a Les Paul with no dead notes.

John B. · Nov 26, 2006

"I'm going to sound like an idiot, but when you tap the wood are you listening for a literal "ring".? Do you place your ear on the body or should it be discernable w/o doing that?"

No need to place your ear on the body. Just go to the guitar store and start tapping. You will notice some guitars are more resonant and lively sounding - while others sound dead.

mustachio · Mar 3, 2019

Old thread, but yup. I just bought a used 2016 Custom Shop Standard with TOM Stoptail. “Riddled with deadspots” or no sustain whatsoever is an accurate description. So, I had to have RS Guitarworks do a specific setup. I told them to NOT to pin the stopbar and make sure every fret rings out. They had to dress and re-crown the frets and mine was barely used prior to my owner ship. It rings out, but I also had to change the pickups that were in it. Thobak ER Customs were in it before I got it, so I went with a more classic sound and got the Throbak ESG-102B which are an exact replacement period correct and a huge improvement. I got the thing at a bargain price but with all the work, plus shipping to RS, new pickups, I kind of paid a little too much for a used. HOWEVER, I would’ve had to done those tweaks to a brand new SG. Which is why you buy used, never new, unless you have the luxury of trying it out first. Online is a dicey proposition.

Oh, and sidebar, I found that adjusting those pickups higher than expected was a huge improvement. I’m talking 3/64ths bass and 2/64ths treble side, respectively, on the treble pickup. And neck pickup 4/64ths bass and treble sides. But man, cleans up great. ESG-102Bs are low wind but man this thing CRANKS when pots are on 10.

hogy said:
Yep, the hardest Gibson to find a good example of.

There is some interesting stuff going on tonally when they're forced to sustain by sheer volume. Their percussive, banjo-like quality gives them a lot of cut and space between the notes if you find a good one.
But most are just bad and riddled with dead spots.

Les Paul knew why he hated them.

I've tried to like them over and over again because they do look so cool, but out of maybe a couple dozen pre '65 SGs I've played over the years I came across two I'd consider owning.

b

Sustain Problems on SG 61R?

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