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  1. #1

    What's a long neck tenon?

    Something I was wondering – how long is a long neck tenon? Does it vary with guitar models (like single cutaway vs. double cutaway guitars), is a long neck tenon simply a neck that extends the full length of the fretboard or should it go beyond that etc? I assume the benefit of a long tenon is increased neck stability and improved sustain, is that right? Thanks in advance dudes.

  2. #2

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    It's like how your weiner goes way back into your body. Same thing for a long neck tenon.

  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member Rock-On!!'s Avatar
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldurban
    It's like how your weiner goes way back into your body. Same thing for a long neck tenon.






    Let the fun begin

  4. #4

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Nice pictures.

  5. #5

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldurban
    It's like how your weiner goes way back into your body. Same thing for a long neck tenon.
    Thank you, that was most informative :worship . I feel much wiser now .

  6. #6

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock-On!!






    Let the fun begin
    I assume, therefore that any set neck guitar with the truss rod adjuster at the body end would be deemed to have a long neck tenon, correct? Thanks for the pictures as well, worth many words. Are you a luthier?

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by humptydumpty
    I assume, therefore that any set neck guitar with the truss rod adjuster at the body end would be deemed to have a long neck tenon, correct? Thanks for the pictures as well, worth many words. Are you a luthier?
    No. Completely unrelated.

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by humptydumpty
    I assume, therefore that any set neck guitar with the truss rod adjuster at the body end would be deemed to have a long neck tenon, correct? Thanks for the pictures as well, worth many words. Are you a luthier?
    No, the truss rod adjuster on long tenon Les Pauls are at the headstock under the truss rod cover. Long (50's, 68, early 69, and Historics), transitional (mostly 69) and short (70 and on in general) tenon LEs Pauls all have the adjustment at the headstock.

    There may be other set neck guitars that adjust at the body, but by in large all Les Pauls and Gibsons I know adjsut at the headstock. Am I missing anything, anyone?

  9. #9

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    The reason I ask that question (though it is somewhat off topic of my main question) is that I've noticed all Gordon Smith set neck guitars seem to have the truss rod adjustment at the body end and assumed this would mean a long neck tenon given that, again I assume, the truss rod adjustment would not extend beyond the neck - any thoughts?

    What are the benefits of a long tenon and how do you tell if a Gibson has them?

    Rock-On! - is the pictrue at the top and one on the right a short tenon and the other one a long tenon? Thanks again guys.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member Rock-On!!'s Avatar
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by humptydumpty
    Rock-On! - is the pictrue at the top and one on the right a short tenon and the other one a long tenon? Thanks again guys.
    Yep

  11. #11

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Simple answer: The SG needs a long tenon because it has a very weak neck joint. All SGs have long tenons. The LP is very solid, and either is good. There's a myth circulating about how shorter ones don't work as well, but from what I can tell, it's just nonsense. As long as the neck is snugly in its pocket, and there's enough surface area to prevent shifting, it should be fine and dandy. Fenders are awful for poor neck fit, and I've had to take matters into my own hands on the ones I own to prevent the necks from shifting around (Brass inserts countersunk into the neck, and wood screws replaced with fine thread machine screws for a really positive clamping action - be careful not to crack the heel though ;)).

  12. #12
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheburashka
    Simple answer:
    As long as the neck is snugly in its pocket, and there's enough surface area to prevent shifting, it should be fine and dandy.

    I agree ..plus if you're considering a purchase based on the long vs. short tenon theory my advice would be to just play the guitar you're considering on it's on merits and don't sweat the joint :smokin :biglaugh:

  13. #13

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Cheers guys, appreciate the advice. The irony of all this is I'd never heard of the long/short neck tenon issue until I started coming here. However, having looked at the excellent pictures provided by Rock-On! I can't see that this is a massive issue to get concerned about. Thanks again.

  14. #14

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    actually while not "massive"-it is a significant issue and IMHO and many others, makes a significant difference in the sound quality of the guitar

    -thats why the historics are so popular in part-having several of 'production' and historics and having a/b'd historic and production with identical pups-the tenon does make a big difference-and, so does the transitional tenon (halfway in size between the two-used in about 1975-1976 on a few production guitars) ("what is this difference?" you ask. There seems to be more air and wood to the tone of the guitar with long tenons-a more 'accoustic' quality to the ampliified note-more complex-if you will play each side by side for more than a few minutes, both amplified and unamplified -you will likely hear and feel what im describing-to me, the long tenon guitars really are a step up, and worth the difference in price-you can hear it-one member at least has stated that it makes no difference when the drummer starts-and he is in essence right -but in a more controleed setting you can hear the difference

  15. #15

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheburashka
    Simple answer: The SG needs a long tenon because it has a very weak neck joint. All SGs have long tenons. The LP is very solid, and either is good. There's a myth circulating about how shorter ones don't work as well, but from what I can tell, it's just nonsense. As long as the neck is snugly in its pocket, and there's enough surface area to prevent shifting, it should be fine and dandy. Fenders are awful for poor neck fit, and I've had to take matters into my own hands on the ones I own to prevent the necks from shifting around (Brass inserts countersunk into the neck, and wood screws replaced with fine thread machine screws for a really positive clamping action - be careful not to crack the heel though ;)).
    Anyone know what the 336 tenon is like?

  16. #16

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheburashka
    Simple answer: The SG needs a long tenon because it has a very weak neck joint. All SGs have long tenons. The LP is very solid, and either is good. There's a myth circulating about how shorter ones don't work as well, but from what I can tell, it's just nonsense. As long as the neck is snugly in its pocket, and there's enough surface area to prevent shifting, it should be fine and dandy. Fenders are awful for poor neck fit, and I've had to take matters into my own hands on the ones I own to prevent the necks from shifting around (Brass inserts countersunk into the neck, and wood screws replaced with fine thread machine screws for a really positive clamping action - be careful not to crack the heel though ;)).

    you know i dont take issue with this in THEORY-and ill be the first to admit this is speculation on my part-but....

    take a look at the photos, theres room and play with the short tenon as it fits into the pocket-much much less with a long tenon........

    a correctly and tightly[U] fitted short tenon should do it...

    the long tenon, ill bet, always DOES IT because there simply is more closely fitted and glued area and it is a tighter fit and 'easier' to do correctly in a production line situation-ie there is only one way it will fit tightly

    ..i base this on a couple of speculations...a well fitted telecaster neck with bolts has a great deal of sustain and stability..make the pocket/fit only a bit loose and theres a HUGE change in sound, ditto, with a s/t lester or sg neck, that

    1 is probably shaped slightly on the small side because in a production situation too big is a 're-work', and

    2 when fitting a piece with glue, it actually takes a bit of care and time to fully and evenly cover a piece with glue-get it on boths pieces and have it stay in place with no gaps or pockets-it can be done, but not quickly

    ...id bet in a factory production line, its a quick swipe or three with a glue brush and then its clamped, with emphasis on not having glue spooge out affecting finish or clean up...so...im still in favor of a long tenon over a short..if not only due to my ears, but also given the odds of production line work-some are right some are perfect, some are misses

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Nice pictures, very educational!

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member BillyBling's Avatar
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    tenon........
    If you wouldn't say it in person, don't say it online



    billyhandyjunior@gmail.com

  19. #19

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    Hi Steve,

    Good to discussion on the issue. My reasoning is thus: Since a) A good solid contact is all that's necessary to transmit vibration across surfaces, b) The only factor that can really play a role in adversely affecting sustain is a dampening action, caused by a poor joint, either at the neck or bridge (in the case of a trem-equipped guitar).

    I really can't think of any modern non-bolt neck guitar where sustain would be an issue. Even most bolt-neck guitars are perfectly fine - it's only when there's a folded piece of business card in the body side of the pocket to "ghetto" shim the correct neck angle that you have tone problems, and even then, it's tiny, and the benefit of great playability is well worth the sacrifice.

    Of most importance in determining tone is the player's fingers, amp, and pickups. Finally comes the subtle colouring inherent in the woods chosen for the instrument's construction. Don't discount subtlety, but also don't raise it on a pedestal above musical aptitude, technique, or ability.

  20. #20

    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    well ive heard that tone is in the fingers-and i tend to think of this as a mis-nomer

    1 im not a great player-even after 35 years, so i presume im not at this tone-is-in the fingers- level-

    and yet -

    2. i can still clearly hear a difference based on ...the guitar .....and ... the tenon (and believe me I was sceptical until ...i played historics with tims-and on guitar with a transition tenon-with t-tops- back to back with productions with tims -using these same pick ups (tims) ..the tims pups have a definite character of thier own-ie a signature tone of the pick up...so do les pauls as a guitar (IMHO) but ..the tenon adds something airy and woody and resonant-i find the notes bloom differently with feedback, and i attribute this mostly to the tenon-because there seems to be something similar among the long tenon guitars in how they bloom and resonate

    - i dont discount the subtley you talk about-

    but-id be more inclined to describe it as - phrasing/dynamics/attack/vibrato/legato/ etc.(delivery or performance) than tone-to me tone comes mostly from the instruments,amps, and components

    i tend to think of a guitar as similar to a piano, there are ony so many ways you can depress a string against a fret and strike the string-different IMHO than an ambachure in playing flute or trumpet where the tone is actually made due to a phyisical nuance in the formation of the lips of the player

    i think this may be more in semantics than anything else-becasue obviously great technique makes for great guitar-but...im wondering is this is the fluidity, impact, emotional aspect of the technique versus actual tone-(and yes i know that when you dig in the amps tone can be altered, as one example-but thats not what im talking about-that to me would be manipulating the the 'mecahnical' tone of the amp by increasing decreasing signal strnegth subtley, versus say playing an accoustic guitar and actually getting DIFFERENT TONE quality simply through fingers

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: What's a long neck tenon?

    corybox, 336 = long tenon

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