Are Burstbucker's made like PAF's

Leña_Costoso said:

And I say... show me that with the amount of miniscule... eeeeny weeenie, tiny, small, undectable by the human eye or hand, movement that is speculated to be there actually exists, and that it creates a sonic change that is measurable by the interaction with guitar strings, on a guitar body, and played through a guitar amp, and is withing the range of human hearing.

Thats all. Just show me, then I'll believe.

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This reminds me of a little story my dad told me about...

Back when he was still a kid he used to hang out with one of his friends at his fathers machine shop and like kids do they were just messing around wanting to see what they were working on at the time.

He happened to walk through the painted lines on the floor while his friends uncle was on the lathe doing some high presision work and got told some heavy words.

Later in the day the uncle set up some high tollerance measuring equiptment on the piece he was working on in the lathe. He then called him over and told him the look at that dial and to step over the line; needless to say soon as he steped over it the dial moved.

So in other words just cause you dont see it, doesn't mean there's not an effect and if you have the right tools and enviroment you can measure it.

This post isn't a response to anyone in particular, it's just my experience...

I've potted hundreds of p-ups for people, and myself, and if done correctly, which means with the right wax at the right temperature and for only a few minutes, there is no change in tone whatsoever...

In addition to being a professional guitarist for 30 years, I've also been a sound engineer for almost that long, and we've done before and after recording tests (to tape) to listen for any differences...

there are none. Microphones don't lie, if the mic doesn't hear any difference, then there isn't one, that's as far as it goes for me

I just know that if my p-ups aren't potted I wouldn't be able to crank my Marshalls and enjoy them, and if I couldn't do that life wouldn't be very fun

FWIW not only were Pages p-ups potted but so are (were) the p-ups in Gary Moores bursts, he would never be able to play with the high gain that he uses otherwise...

Lastly on the original subject of the BB's, they do not sound much like real PAF's at all, WAY more treble than any PAF I've had or heard (mostly due to the poly wire), and that would be alot of them...

what they can be good for is brightening up your average historic LP, which are inherently (for many different reasons) much darker and low-endy than real bursts, two reasons being the fact that obviously the wood isn't all old and dried out, and secondly, too much wood on the back of the damn baseball bat necks!

I don't know what Gibson is thinking but they just didn't come that big, sorry!

BCR/Greg said:

CHILDREN!!!!!!!

No dessert if you keep acting this way.

Just for kicks, raise your hand if you've ever owned any REAL PAF pickups.

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:salude

what they can be good for is brightening up your average historic LP, which are inherently (for many different reasons) much darker and low-endy than real bursts, two reasons being the fact that obviously the wood isn't all old and dried out, and secondly, too much wood on the back of the damn baseball bat necks!

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Well I can tell you this: my 01 R8 has an awful lot of clang, snap and 3-d quality to the tone. Though it does have more than ample bass response, it is hardly a 'dark' sounding Lester. And I've heard and owned many of those types..

jwalker said:

...As far as potting goes the advantage of not potting is the added microphonics of the coil add overtones that are absent if the pickup is potted. As long as the coil wind is not too loose and the magnet and pickup cover have been treated to not be microphonic an unpotted pickups sound better and will not have a feedback problem.

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How would you treat magnet/cover to not be microphonic?

slowjoe said:

How would you treat magnet/cover to not be microphonic?

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One of the tricks for the cover is to use double-sided tape on the inside of the front of the cover (where it contacts the bobbin tops), put the cover on real tight (clamps) and then solder it.

Hey tone freaks... everything makes a difference... whether it matters to you or anyone else is what we are discussing. If a pickup has coils that move and then its wax potted it will sound different. Whether one can hear it or not is obviously up for discussion. If the coils didn't move prior to potting there may not be a noticeable difference to anyone.
I'm an amp tech. My friend, a luthier, had me play his '66 Vibrolux that had been serviced by another tech (they bartered for services). He said it sounded ok before but now it sounded like it had a pillow stuffed in it. I also noticed its lack in luster. I first checked the back for any pillows or packing material...none. I pulled the chassis. Everything looks nice and neat. He had done a careful job soldering. He even used hot glue to keep the caps from making noise. GLUED THE CAPS!! You see this tech was known for his Swiss Army knife high gain amps. He had to glue stuff down or else they would oscillate and be inconsistent. In the process he took the tone and life out of that Vibrolux. I picked off the glue and she rang again with harmonic complexity. Ever wonder why your high gain head w/ closed back cab never quite delivered that clean tone with harmonic complexity of your vintage combo? I say let her sing! My '57 Les Paul Special squeals like a pig... I can even hear the pots go thunk when I slam them to 10 for a solo. I just have to treat her right and we can get along fine.

Crunchyriff said:

Well I can tell you this: my 01 R8 has an awful lot of clang, snap and 3-d quality to the tone. Though it does have more than ample bass response, it is hardly a 'dark' sounding Lester. And I've heard and owned many of those types..

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Same here & my '98 R8 hs the fattest neck I have & have played.
I like the big neck for what it is too not for what was made when.
It is crisp, jangly & sparkles with '57 Classics in it. It also has a very defined, clear low end.

Crunchyriff said:

One of the tricks for the cover is to use double-sided tape on the inside of the front of the cover (where it contacts the bobbin tops), put the cover on real tight (clamps) and then solder it.

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Thanks! good to know...

I've had a number of PU's potted through the years. I even had to send a couple of Duncans back that came potted because they still squeeled, I guess I played kind of loud. I don't remember thinking the tone changed but I used to play with so much volume/gain I don't think it would matter. My thoughts on potting are if you need it, get it done and don't worry about it.

My authentic 08 came with Burst buckers. I didn't like the the pickups, in fact I thought about selling the guitar. I thought they sounded a little thin. I never played a set of real PAF's at "band volume", so I can't state an opinion/comparison.

I recently changed the BB's to 57's and I like the sound of the 08 a lot more. It sounds fuller and smoother to me than the BB's

I have never heard a difference in tone after a microphonic pickup has been potted. I've been playing a LONG time and have pretty good ears when it comes to nuances of tone and feel.
There are countless times on this forum where one person just raves about a pickup (amp, effect, etc) and the next person hates it. It's a matter of perception and application. I truely don't hear a difference. I believe Goldtone does. I'm not lying and (presumably) either is he. We all have our beliefs and that is what makes our world interesting. Can't we just leave it at that. And yes, Burstbuckers, like most good paf clones are made similarly with a hint of identity.