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What is the best way to date a very early ES330?????

Tom Wittrock

Tom Wittrock

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bigjimsguitars said:
TW:

I guess the neck profile transition from 59 to 60 varied a bit and depends on who was shaping them and when the final assembly took place.

I don't ever recall having a true 59 that had a thin neck, but I have had some 60's that had a big neck, so I probably was wrong to use that as an absolute measure of the year.

Would it be safe to say that a ES-330 with a R FON, eventhough that was just the starting point of it's production cycle, would more than not have a large profile neck as well? As such, be considered a 59?

I guess my question is, has anyone seen a R FON with a smaller profile neck indicative of a 1960?
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I would expect that any ES-330 with a 59 FON would be completed before the era of the neck shape change. ;)
 
T

Troels

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bigjimsguitars said:
TW:

I guess the neck profile transition from 59 to 60 varied a bit and depends on who was shaping them and when the final assembly took place.

I don't ever recall having a true 59 that had a thin neck, but I have had some 60's that had a big neck, so I probably was wrong to use that as an absolute measure of the year.

Would it be safe to say that a ES-330 with a R FON, eventhough that was just the starting point of it's production cycle, would more than not have a large profile neck as well? As such, be considered a 59?

I guess my question is, has anyone seen a R FON with a smaller profile neck indicative of a 1960?
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Towards the mid 60s thinner necks became the standard among players. The difference between a fine guitar and a not so...hmmm... could easily be a skinny neck... and I know because I was there :)
 
bigjimsguitars

bigjimsguitars

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Totally absurd, while most prefer large profile necks, there are many that also prefer a thin/wide profile neck, I actually like both (if the width at the nut is 1 5/8ths or wider).

Yes, there was a decline in quality in the mid to late 60's, but that has nothing to do with the size of the neck!

As TW asked, did you work for Gibson?
 
T

Troels

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TW59 said:
:^*
You worked in the Gibson plant, in Kalamazoo, in 1960?!?! :eek :wha :ahem
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Noooo...no-no... :) Good Heavens no... Sorry I wasn't clear... I was a young guitar player by then here in Denmark playing with a few bands ... and a couple of times every week I visited the premier music stores here in Copenhagen just to check out and meet other guitar players - jamming and exchanging experiences, chords, riffs and lead lines - and of course swap guitars. And among all the guitar players I met there - some famous in this part of the world in fact - a high quality guitar was a guitar with a slim neck... the slimmer the better. That particular perception has simply changed over the years... These days people (including myself actually...) like baseball bats.
 
Tom Wittrock

Tom Wittrock

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Troels said:
... These days people (including myself actually...) like baseball bats.
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Really? Not in my area, and definitely not me. :toobad
Give me a nice typical, late 50's LP neck anytime. :dude :wail
And a late 1960 LP neck feels great, also. :wink
 
T

Troels

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TW59 said:
Really? Not in my area, and definitely not me. :toobad
Give me a nice typical, late 50's LP neck anytime. :dude :wail
And a late 1960 LP neck feels great, also. :wink
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Erhh... well not everybody... but it seems like the trend is bigger necks as opposed to when I was younger where everybody wanted slimmer necks.

I don't know if a SG neck must be considered big or slim... but those 60s taper necks (the originals) can still give me GAS...

As I've mentioned - I've been playing guitar since early 60s - and the other day I happened to study my left hand working on the fingerboard - and then I saw a slightly changed hand position compared to earlier - no longer the thumb over the edge - more classical guitar hand position. I haven't seen that before - it's just - strange, isn't it? ... erhh???
 
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class5lp

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For the first time in my life I actually bought a R98 with a full R9 neck and I am getting along with it quite well and really like it. For the last 25 years I have always played the 60's type of neck and would not settle for anything but a slim taper neck but the R9 I just bought had such a great tone and feel and top I bought it with the intention if I didnt like the fiddle I could always sell it. I have passed on so many guitars in the past because of the large neck some of them I actually regret it now. Now I pull this thing from under the bed and plug it in and I dont even think about the neck size. I dont hear any difference in tone between a 59 neck or a 60 slim neck as some have said.
 
bigjimsguitars

bigjimsguitars

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To me, the size of the neck is for the most part not as important as is the neck width at the nut, anything less than 1 5/8th is a struggle to play for me. Also, the string spacing over the pickups are usually better with a wide nut, 1 11/16th.

But again, we have strayed from the original intent of this thread, which was to offer help in dating an early ES-330!
 
valcotone

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class5lp said:
... The elderly man that has this guitar has no other gear like amps ect. He told me he used to use this guitar unplugged to use on stroll around gigs for weddings and such with a harp player, singer, stand up bass, and violin player. James is about 89 years old now and wants the guitars to go to a good home. He bought it when he was around 42 years old and has athritis too bad to play now. ... In the mean time I want all my blood brother Gibson boys help me think of a name for her..Class5LP
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howdy - I think you should call the guitar, "Jesse James". :)
 
65Firebird

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Troels said:
They do have - but they are not uploaded on a PC... In Duchossoirs book "Gibson Electrics" there ar pictures of these lists - so they must exist somewhere.

I've made collection of FONs covering the ES 330 T model - like a sort of "train spotter" I've collected these numbers from guitars put up for sale - and I actually haven't found any FONs starting with Q...

It looks like from my list that an early 1959 in sunburst or natural had this FON: S 1023 19 . The highest number beginning with an S is 2806 16 (a sunburst). The lowest I've come across beginnng with an R is 2839 11 which is a sunburst and the highest number I've found is R 8284 13 - sunburst.

Clapton actually owned one - sold at the same Sotheby auction as his red 335 and Blackie - it was a one PU ES 330 T with FON R 6784 5. My own is R and fours digits in the end of 42xx xx (I don't publish it as I don't wan't some crooks to use it for something hocus-pocus... :) )

Duchossoirs book says that there should be around 40 guitars in evenry batch - if you divide this into the total shipping then there should be app. 24 batches for the FON R-guitars, 11 batches for 1959 and 12 batches for 1961.
I've collected 8 batches for 1959 and 15 for 1960 - and none - as mentioned for 1961.

Summasummarum... a VERY early 1959 wil have a FON beginning with 10xx as a very early 1960 will have a FON beginning with 28xx.

PS: As I've found an collected FONs for almost 66% of the shipped guitars in 1960 it's relevant assume, that one and two PU models have shared batch numbers - so very early 1959 with two PUs will also have a FON in 10xx area as an early 1960 will have a FON in the28xx area.

Maybe one of you out there are a mathematician and able to conclude more precise from the materiale? I'll gladly share the hole number collection if necessecary.
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Hi Troels,

I'm new to the forum and stumbled upon this old thread. I have owned my ES 330-T for 25 years. Mine is a sunburst single pickup model and has an FON S2804 5. Is this a 1959 or 1960?

This guitar has the most comfortable neck to play and sounds beautiful played acoustically or amplified.
 
MikeSlub

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65Firebird said:
Hi Troels,

I'm new to the forum and stumbled upon this old thread. I have owned my ES 330-T for 25 years. Mine is a sunburst single pickup model and has an FON S2804 5. Is this a 1959 or 1960?

This guitar has the most comfortable neck to play and sounds beautiful played acoustically or amplified.
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Should be a 1959.

Welcome to the ES 330 club! :dude:

more_330_shots_with_argentine_grey_010.jpg
 
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