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Long Tenon vs Short Tenon?

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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NR Firebirds have come in 1 piece neck through, 2 piece neck through, multi lam neck through, and multiple neck joins over the years.

When was there a one piece neck thru? I've never seen such a beast on a Firebird.
 

Big Al

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Your just plain wrong Big Al trust me I know a lot more than you do , you also just tipped your knowledge cards with your post !

If you say so. I don't claim extraordinary knowledge, but I can hear the effect, as can others. Maybe it's my super psychic powers or maybe I have x-ray vision that allows me to know. Just like I know neck thru guitars, rocker tenons and tight mortise/tenon neck joints all have a different sonic effect. These things have been noticed and documented by many notable guitar experts and is not just a matter of opinion.

Still with your expert ears, vast experience and superior knowledge, all of us must be wrong, or, ... maybe a self anointed genius who can't critically listen only hears his own noise. You are right, someone definitely tipped their knowledge cards and ain't playin' with a full deck.
 
Last edited:

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
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When was there a one piece neck thru? I've never seen such a beast on a Firebird.


The new-ish I's. 2018 or maybe 2019 USA model at certain dealers. I don't know if I've seen others like that too but over the past few decades there have been oddball firebird runs yet I don't keep up that close.


Of course, hmm, uh, now sure how to word this, the one piece on those I's isn't the same style as early/traditional construction. As in, that one piece is about neck width or a hair more narrow through the guitar. Whereas, I think most of the old and new laminate models the outer plys make up the middle section of the body up to the ridge where the wings were added.
 

Big Al

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The new-ish I's. 2018 or maybe 2019 USA model at certain dealers. I don't know if I've seen others like that too but over the past few decades there have been oddball firebird runs yet I don't keep up that close.


Of course, hmm, uh, now sure how to word this, the one piece on those I's isn't the same style as early/traditional construction. As in, that one piece is about neck width or a hair more narrow through the guitar. Whereas, I think most of the old and new laminate models the outer plys make up the middle section of the body up to the ridge where the wings were added.

Are you referring to a Firebird I with one solid mahogany piece of wood from headstock to butt strap button, the width of the neck only, ( like Rickenbacker maple solidbody ), laminated/joined to two pieces to compromise the raised center section, with outside wings laminated/joined to it??

That is something I am completely unaware of, ( common occurrence ), and is extremely puzzling, as I cannot think of any plausible reason why, except for bizarre one off. Still this is far outside any generalisation of Firebird necks and I'd like to learn more. If you have any solid info, [pun intended:rofl], I'd be interested to know.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
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Are you referring to a Firebird I with one solid mahogany piece of wood from headstock to butt strap button, the width of the neck only, ( like Rickenbacker maple solidbody ), laminated/joined to two pieces to compromise the raised center section, with outside wings laminated/joined to it??

That is something I am completely unaware of, ( common occurrence ), and is extremely puzzling, as I cannot think of any plausible reason why, except for bizarre one off. Still this is far outside any generalisation of Firebird necks and I'd like to learn more. If you have any solid info, [pun intended:rofl], I'd be interested to know.


Basically, yes, I don't have inside info but I owned one (and I loved it, looking to get back into one):

rHKfpmLh.jpg



The specs list them as "neck thru design." Neck definitely one piece.


Mine was silver, you could even make out the seam a bit through the very thin finish:

lRqm7Fwh.jpg





As per why? Hell if I know! Why did they go from the bi-cut to the 9 ply way back in '63? Then changed the whole thing another year or so later. Why do they make so few USA models with a traditional setup like the wrap tail or the abr+maestro or the wrap + vibrato etc etc etc?? Some guy just makes a decision and they go with it, lol, that's my theory.

I was hoping they'd do the Firebirds like they did the SG's last year where they thin out the neck binding and put out a couple models where the only difference is the bridge/vibrato setup.
 

Big Al

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Basically, yes, I don't have inside info but I owned one (and I loved it, looking to get back into one):

rHKfpmLh.jpg



The specs list them as "neck thru design." Neck definitely one piece.


Mine was silver, you could even make out the seam a bit through the very thin finish:

https://i.imgur.com/lRqm7Fwh.jpg[q/img]




As per why? Hell if I know! Why did they go from the bi-cut to the 9 ply way back in '63? Then changed the whole thing another year or so later. Why do they make so few USA models with a traditional setup like the wrap tail or the abr+maestro or the wrap + vibrato etc etc etc?? Some guy just makes a decision and they go with it, lol, that's my theory.

I was hoping they'd do the Firebirds like they did the SG's last year where they thin out the neck binding and put out a couple models where the only difference is the bridge/vibrato setup.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Ive been partial to FB I's and have been making do with the surprisingly excellent Bonamassa Epi, [only real bummer is the thick poly finish], and it did satisfy. I've always dug the 9 ply and I also favor a good three piece Les Paul neck, (the three full 59 profile mahogany examples I own are gems), so I'm in the minority.

Was that a CME DFSR? It's cool for sure, but an od request. The Firebird is the red headed stepchild of Gibsons. A 3 year original run, then what, 5 yr goofy reverse? I'd love to see a core series with correct body shape and bridge/vibrola options, banjo Klusons and I, III, V, & VII models!! One can dream and that's all I'll do as I'm hospital bound tomorrow as my shoulder surgery failed and my new steel humerus tore through the incision and once again I'm looking at steel poking out my shoulder. Can't win.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
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Thank you. Ive been partial to FB I's and have been making do with the surprisingly excellent Bonamassa Epi, [only real bummer is the thick poly finish], and it did satisfy. I've always dug the 9 ply and I also favor a good three piece Les Paul neck, (the three full 59 profile mahogany examples I own are gems), so I'm in the minority.

Was that a CME DFSR? It's cool for sure, but an od request. The Firebird is the red headed stepchild of Gibsons. A 3 year original run, then what, 5 yr goofy reverse? I'd love to see a core series with correct body shape and bridge/vibrola options, banjo Klusons and I, III, V, & VII models!! One can dream and that's all I'll do as I'm hospital bound tomorrow as my shoulder surgery failed and my new steel humerus tore through the incision and once again I'm looking at steel poking out my shoulder. Can't win.


Geez, if I could comprehend it I'd have some good words to type. Good luck with your next stay!



As for 'birds, they are something else. For me, personally, the way the neck juts out from the body just feels incredibly comfortable for some reason. I just jive so well with the shape and experience a bit less chronic pains/issues when I stick to one versus playing a Les Paul or my Strat, but 335's/SG's feel okay too. :hmm
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
Have most of the bridge & tail piece combos covered here & a mix of Duncan & Alnico !
W4WlGsl.jpg
[/IMG]
 

C-4

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Jan 5, 2005
Messages
1,776
Having owned and played old Gibsons and had custom ones built back in 1963 ongoing, and having been a guest of Gibson in Kalamazoo on 2 separate occasions, I can tell you that beyond a guitar having a long or short tenon, then tightness of the mortise and tenon between the body and neck makes a big difference as well. I was shown and told this by luthiers who built the original bursts on the line in the 1950's and were promoted to the repair/custom department in the 1960's.

Unless you take them apart, it is difficult to assess how tightly a neck was connected to the body, but the tone and sustain tell a lot about the guitar.

This is why so many players who know things, play the guitar acoustically first.
Some people who don't know about guitars don't understand why a person would do this.

The wood also plays a big part in the tone, and of course after everything else, the pickups.

A guitar which was put together well but has not so great pickups will be missing some of it's tone, just as a guitar with great pickups but not so great build will also be missing some of it's tone. It is the total package.

I've played the most average looking 1959 bursts with the red perimeter faded to a pea green color, but that guitar had everything you could want from any guitar from it's weight, balance tone, neck feel, the works. It's just the luck of being in the right place at the right time and finding the right guitar, nothing more.
 
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