Lacquer cracking on Les Pauls

[tokairic]

I had a seriously disappointing episode this week. I found loads of cracks in the lacquer on the back of the headstocks on both my 2015 Les Pauls (Less Plus and Standard). There is also a large area of 'sinkage' following the grain, wider than the pickups and the full length of the body on the Less Plus.
I contacted Gibson Europe under the Lifetime Warranty and was turned away, on the grounds that 'finish is not warranted' and 'it must be the way I have stored them' and 'thats normal for nitro'. OK if they were 10 years old maybe - but these are 6 months old, kept in the cases, only played for pleasure in my home.
It seems that Gibson not only produce guitars based on a '50's model, their customer service attitude is also based in the 1950's.

All this on top of seeing the dealer prices plummet after I had shelled out a heap of money. I am gutted. What exactly does the warranty cover - specifically? Gibson are very vague about it. European Consumer Law includes 'appearance' as a quality issue, so I'm not sure they can legally turn this problem away....

I am stuck with these I think. Can't sell them for anywhere remotely near a sensible price, due to the dealer price drops and finish issues, so can't replace them.

I can honestly say that I will, sadly, never buy another Gibson.

So I will be playing these for the next ten years or so, until the age of the guitar matches the poor finish - then at least I might get a fair price for them (Reliced ?)

 

[Big Al]

First, take a deep breath and relax. Lacquer is thin and will sink into the grain over time. Most see this as a benefit. The checking or cracking is a result of the physical properties of a thin hard finish and owner neglect. Neglect means not that the guitar was mistreated, rather that the guitar was exposed to fluctuating temperatures and humidities. It doesn't take much but those swings in environment effect the wood and finish much harder than they do too us.

It is a hallmark for some. So much so that people pay a lot of dough to have people cut checking into new guitars. What a world, huh?

 

[Foggy72]

Sometime in the 80s I returned from a jam session, unpacked all my stuff from the car, and forgot the Les Paul in the trunk. It was winter and the temperature fell to -20F overnight. In the morning when I retrieved it the face of the whole guitar was covered with very fine hairline cracks. I kicked myself but decided it didn't look that bad. Still there today.

 

[Elliot Easton]

Have they cut down on the plasticizer?

 

[latestarter]

The following isn't meant to be negative to you OP...just a view for you to consider.

Gibson's customers have asked for thin Nitro finishes on their guitars...they've delivered. Customers want sunken grain, weather checking and super thin finishes because there's a view it improves tone and looks better over time. I tend to agree with most of the theory.

6 months into ownership does seem quick for these characteristics to appear, but anything is possible with nitro.

If you want finishes that don't move or shrink, Gibsons aren't for you...

 

[marshall1987]

Recent "thinner" lacquer referenced above is exclusive to the Gibson Custom/Historic line isn't it? The OPs guitars are from the USA line if I'm not mistaken.

Also, just because a particular lacquer finish may be "applied" in thinner and/or fewer coats than in the recent past, doesn't necessarily infer the lacquer has been reformulated.

 

[latestarter]

I had a Traditional a little while ago and the finish was verrryyy thin, especially on the top. Very much like my R9.

 

[jrfisher]

Finish Checking also helps prove that it's a real Gibson

 

[tokairic]

Just so you know I am definitely not anti Gibson - I own a 2012 LP Supreme, Nighthawk and ES339. All are stored in the same place in the same way as the two new ones which have cracked, and none of these show a problem of any sort.

I actually expected a rush of replies defending Gibson - yup I got it.

The guitars were stored in my comfortable home in their cases when not in use - not a sub zero car trunk. I expect sinkage and cracks to appear in nitro over a long period of time as a natural sign of ageing. I can live with that no problem - however after only 6 months it would seem to be a problem with the lacquer mix or application.
I have built guitars and finished them in nitro - I am familiar with the issues. Gibson should have mastered the procedure by now.

If the guitars were of Asian manufacture, no doubt we would see thousands of posts condemning them as rubbish rip offs -
however they are Gibsons, so everthing is forgiven.
I actually own a 1959 Hofner with nitro finish which has fewer cracks in the lacquer than these two Gibsons.

 

[marshall1987]

The lacquer? Gibson does lacquer?

 

[paul kossoff]

my 2014 57 HISTORIC ...Only had this for 5 months from brand new !!! was perfect when i had it ....infact i was so bloody mad that i have just gone out and brought another one ..a 2016 57 historic .. ....Perfect !! but i am expecting the same to happen again ...hopefully not so damn soon .....but i think Gibson instead of changing the tuners ...weight releif ...push button boosters etc etc etc ..would be far better to keep the design of the guitar as is , but offer an alternative finish like Polyester ..for people who "DONT" like there guitars checking but prefer them to remain looking New for many many years.

 

[marshall1987]

my 2014 57 HISTORIC ...Only had this for 5 months from brand new !!! was perfect when i had it ....infact i was so bloody mad that i have just gone out and brought another one ..a 2016 57 historic .. ....Perfect !! but i am expecting the same to happen again ...hopefully not so damn soon .....but i think Gibson instead of changing the tuners ...weight releif ...push button boosters etc etc etc ..would be far better to keep the design of the guitar as is , but offer an alternative finish like Polyester ..for people who "DONT" like there guitars checking but prefer them to remain looking New for many many years.

Blasphemy ...........polyester on a Gibson Les Paul! Quickly..... make an offering at once. :yah

 

[AA00475Bassman]

IMO polyester would be a bad market place move to even offer , you are also focused on just the finish . Being this is a fairly new guitar other factors can play a roll in this end result not just finish . Someone who builds high end products from raw log to finished product could explain cause & effect . I would suggest trying a Veleno . Gibson would be foolish to warranty something they can not have control over such as finish on wood .

 

[D'Mule]

I feel your pain. You're still in the honeymoon period enjoying your pristine guitar and this happens. Ironically, it's highly likely that had this not happened in about six months you would have found a few dings and would be wondering if the guitar would look better with some checking to match.:hmm

Seriously, finish sinking into the grain is very normal and a sign of a nice thin finish. Probably could be avoided if Gibson lenthened the dry times between nitro coats, but I'm no expert. Unfortunately, this can sometimes reveal some unevenness that can be seen and felt. I especially notice it on my R4 GoldTop LP, but it's also true for my figured R8. To me this is a very organic thing and not a flaw.

The early checking is annoying so early, I agree. Honestly though, unless you had planned on selling this guitar as "mint", some checking on the back of the headstock will not affect resale value all that much. Maybe reduce the price $50-$100 bucks.

My advice is to get back to enjoying the guitars for what they are, or move them, but don't waste any more emotional energy worrying about them or Gibson.

I bet they are still extremely cool guitars that 9 out of 10 guitarists can only dream about owning.

 

[latestarter]

The two issues are almost separate in my mind.

1. Lacquer sinking in...no problems...totally normal. Irefin'd an SG in black nitro recently, ensured I had a thin finish, and within a month it was starting to show the grain underneath (yes, grain filled).
2. The cracking/checking...it does seem too early for this to occur. Temp changes and humidity can speed all that up...but still, it is early in the guitars life.

 

[jrfisher]

... i was so bloody mad that i have just gone out and brought another one ...

I get your meaning but the statement does sound a little Crazy :biggrin:

 

[tokairic]

The photo of the Goldtop is Exactly my problem. Glad I'm not the only one, I suspect there are many more out there, thinking theirs is the only one and they've just had 'bad luck' with this one. . This is obviously not sinkage, due to drying out and the cracks you can see are not the grain showing through. Possibilities are - wood not seasoned properly, nitro lacquer not mixed to the right proportions with thinner, not enough drying time between coats. All these suggest a 'rushed' attitude to guitar production- not a quality approach.
Only the blind loyalty of 'Gibsonophiles' keeps them in business - think ('the Kings New Clothes' - look up the story)

But why the heck did Paul go out and give Gibson more $$$$$ when they let him down so badly the first time. This is the "Gibson effect" in action. Don't forgive them, it reinforces their poor attitude that the customer is always at fault, and they will continue to charge vast amounts of money for substandard guitars.

As I said, Appearance is actually listed in European Consumer Law as a reasonable defect to be covered under guarantees. Gibson are a law unto themselves and decide it isn't.

One of the things that we find attractive, before we ever pickup a guitar to play, is the colour and finish. It is reasonable to expect the finish to last for an acceptable length of time before it deteriorates, say 5 years - not 5 months.
If Gibson cannot nitro lacquer a guitar to a high enough standard to last a reasonable length of time before deteriorating they should UV Poly coat all their guitars except the Custom range, where people who pay between $5500 and $15000 will squeal with glee when their brand new guitar starts to look 20 years old.

If I had wanted a 'Relic'ed' guitar - I would have bought one!!

 

[K701]

That seems to be a common problem for goldtops in that area.

I remember the complaints 10/12 years ago (I was one of them) about the super thick plastic 'nitro' Gibson were using. The finish on my standard was still soft after 18 months. Nasty great smelling stuff. Now it looks like they have cut down on plasticiser and spraying it thinner and having the problems associated with that. I'd prefer the latter. I gave up on my LP and it sat under a bed for 3 years. Then I had it refinished with thin nitro and wow what a difference tonally. It no longer lives under the bed.

I personally would never buy a polyester Gibson.

 

[paul kossoff]

I get your meaning but the statement does sound a little Crazy :biggrin:

well if or when it happens to this again ..i will have to buy yet another one ...making it 3 Goldtops

 

[paul kossoff]

The photo of the Goldtop is Exactly my problem. Glad I'm not the only one, I suspect there are many more out there, thinking theirs is the only one and they've just had 'bad luck' with this one. . This is obviously not sinkage, due to drying out and the cracks you can see are not the grain showing through. Possibilities are - wood not seasoned properly, nitro lacquer not mixed to the right proportions with thinner, not enough drying time between coats. All these suggest a 'rushed' attitude to guitar production- not a quality approach.
Only the blind loyalty of 'Gibsonophiles' keeps them in business - think ('the Kings New Clothes' - look up the story)

But why the heck did Paul go out and give Gibson more $$$$$ when they let him down so badly the first time. This is the "Gibson effect" in action. Don't forgive them, it reinforces their poor attitude that the customer is always at fault, and they will continue to charge vast amounts of money for substandard guitars.

As I said, Appearance is actually listed in European Consumer Law as a reasonable defect to be covered under guarantees. Gibson are a law unto themselves and decide it isn't.

One of the things that we find attractive, before we ever pickup a guitar to play, is the colour and finish. It is reasonable to expect the finish to last for an acceptable length of time before it deteriorates, say 5 years - not 5 months.
If Gibson cannot nitro lacquer a guitar to a high enough standard to last a reasonable length of time before deteriorating they should UV Poly coat all their guitars except the Custom range, where people who pay between $5500 and $15000 will squeal with glee when their brand new guitar starts to look 20 years old.

If I had wanted a 'Relic'ed' guitar - I would have bought one!!

I think you are Bang on !! ..and now i see im not the only one who has had this happen so fast ...i betting its going to happen with the New Goldtop i brought just last week ..only time will tell