getting tonal improvements from the tailpiece/studs/bushings

[jcourtjr]

if you want better coupling from this trio, what is the minimal way? do you just replace the studs with pigtails and screw them into the stock gibson bushings? replace both the studs and the bushings? will the stock gibson tailpiece work with this or should you get a replacement?

seems to be a bunch of threads on the subject but not anything definititve.

thanks

 

[roadrunner]

The stock Gibson tp is great, as far as tone goes. Find some steel studs... either Pigtail or RS and don't worry about the bushings. That's all you need to do.

 

[Mainah]

+1. The steel studs are the key ingredient, as you'll likely not be able to tell the difference (tonally) between any of the various lightweight tailpieces (though I'm sure someone will jump on and flame me for not noticing some obscure upper-mid level frequency that is only present with brand X tailpiece). IMHO changing out the bushings is way more trouble than it could possibly be worth, and also presents you with a perfect opportunity to seriously fuck up your guitar if you don't know what you're doing. As always, YMMV!

 

[JDPS150]

I'm gonna guess that the steel studs & LW TP work just as well for a 335?

 

[Bradster]

Screwing the studs down tight to the inserts is the best way to get good coupling.

If the string angle gets too steep (like touches the back of the bridge) the minimal least invasive way would be the "stud spacer" arrangement. These allow the tailpiece stud to be screwed down tight to the insert and IMHO allow for best coupling regardless of which brand/type of tailpiece used.

This pic is of '04 R9 with spacer washer added to each post. You can see the stud is now fully seated on the insert and the string still clears the back of the bridge.

the spacer was made from stainless steel and polished, it blends well with both Nickel or Chrome finished hardware.

The idea is to make the spacer the same diameter as the bottom of the stud where it rests on the bushing (when it's screwed all the way down) that way it is hard to spot and doesn't ruin the guitar's stock look.

Another thing when using a spacer is to make sure to remove any finish laquer that is on the top of the stud's insert, this allows a good metal-to-metal contact of the stud-spacer-insert and thus best coupling of the tailpiece to the wood. Steel studs work well with this spacer method, these in this pic have been replaced with RS steel studs.

 

[hellhound]

I have put pig tail studs and tail pieces on my les Paul classic and 96 jimmy page signature, yes it made a difference and yes it was in that obscure frequency area. I like it and I'm not going to go back. I did not install the bushings. That will wait for the rainy day fund and the local guitar tech services. The change that made the biggest difference in tone and frequency was 50's wiring, I don't think you need to get the RS kit for this. I did put the RS kit on my classic and it really kicks ass. I did the same mod to my Jimmy Page with out the RS kit and it is like night and day. IMHO It is the fifties wiring that makes the biggest difference. Just move the capacitor connection on the volume pot from the outside lug where the pickup is to the center lug and you have fifties wiring. It is that easy and will change the way the guitar sounds instantly. On my guitars it was definitely for the better. There is some weirdness right away that you will notice, ie the tone pot now effects the volume or output of the pickup. This takes some getting used to especially if are playing full on shred metal.

 

[RamiLP]

i dont see many people mention the locking studs, i have replaced my stock gibson studds with tonepros vintage steel looking steel studs. i did notice a difference, not sure if its from the steel studs or the locking action, or both combined together, but the gitar dose resonate and got a little louder acoustically. im not that experianced with amps and stuff so im not sure if i can hear a differnece pluged in.

 

[hellhound]

I understand what you mean. I haven't tried the locking stuff. I was after that vintage spec thing. How ever I had a similar experience I could hear the difference when I played the guitar unplugged, and I heard a definite difference when I played through an amp even a cheap little Marshall Valve state 12 with a 6 inch speaker. Where I couldn't hear the difference was when I recorded the guitars. I made a recording of both guitars before I put on the studs and tail pieces and then again after. I managed to keep the same strings on the classic. Which made a real good A and B for that guitar. I had to cut the strings on the Jimmy Page because I had topped wrapped that one in search of better tone. The classic sounded like fresh strings after the tail piece and stud change even though they were not. I could not tell the recordings of the classic apart. I used the same amp and the same microphone and the same settings and played the same stuff. I used head phones to listen to the play back and I could not tell the difference. I did all this before the 50's wiring mod and i have not recorded a C recording to go with the previous A and B. I should do that.

 

[Sean French]

No need to change out the stock bushings on Historics as they are steel.
The main thing is the steel studs.
If one's guitar has the heavy Zinc TP then swapping that out for an Aluminum TP will also yeild tonal differences.
Whether one preferes the differences are relative.

 

[AndIfYouSayToMe]

To Hellhound - as well as other recording enthusiasts -

I am a "newbie" to this site, and so I hope that I am not crossing any boundaries or rules with this post...

However, it has been my experience that the recording aspect is a-whole-nother area to find differentiating and distinguishing tonal varieties. How your microphone is placed (to the millimeter) in front of your amp's cab even has a lot to do with how your recording will come out - as does similar effects of your entire recording setup.

PLEASE, check out this site (hope i'm not breakin rules here) - http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

This site will answer almost every question you may have about your current, future, and anything in-between setups. It also has a great, and very large, participating forum regarding these and other music issues.

Finally, I'll slightly take away from my post by saying that, although I know these things to be true, I would not have the slighest clue without looking at every aspect of your setup and guitar - what may be causing the variations, or lack there of. I suggest lots of trial and error, and research on this site, as well as that recording forum/guide.

Hope that helps!

 

[jcourtjr]

Well i installed my RS tailpiece and im not sure i like the results. its much brighter than the stock gibson lightweight tailpiece (i think). ill have to swap again to make sure. my R8 is pretty bright tonally and i think this took it over the edge.

Anyone have similar experiences?

 

[skip62]

Well i installed my RS tailpiece and im not sure i like the results. its much brighter than the stock gibson lightweight tailpiece (i think). ill have to swap again to make sure. my R8 is pretty bright tonally and i think this took it over the edge.

Anyone have similar experiences?

I changed to the pigtail studs and this is the result I heard too. I haven't switched to make sure yet, lazy. Let me know when you switch yours back.

 

[Belman]

I'm going to install the gibson lightweight tailpiece and pigtail steel studs.

I hope it adds brightness - I can't (for the life of me) relate to the 'brighness aversion' afterall you can wind down the treble but you cant add any more (unless you use a booster pedal)

BF

 

[JDPS150]

I just put RS steel studs & LW TP on my 335. Wow, lotsa bright.

 

[jcourtjr]

i went back and forth just now. i feel the better coupling of the rs makes all my notes more focused.

i think the problem i was having is that i lowered my action when i installed the rs tailpiece the first time. i changed to the historic and raised my action. my tone returned and when i put the rs tailpiece on, it just made that more focused and the notes rang truer.

 

[hellhound]

To Hellhound - as well as other recording enthusiasts -



I'm sure that site will help thanks, there is a lot of info there. I could spec my system for you etc. but it may need to done else where. I did use a protools digi 001 with and old audio technica cardioid mike placed on kleenex box and then plugged the mike directly into the protools rig. I had just purchased the OO1 used and these were the first recordings I made. I had to use the manual and go step by step. So I'm not surprised after reading your post if my technique is, well crap. I don't have a mike stand yet, hence the Kleenex box. I moved the mike in between recordings and I tried to eyeball it as far exact placement is concerned. I would pay a lot to know what Jimmy Page does about mike placement. For all those who have just replaced their hardware with Pig tails or RS brightness is what I noticed too, but it was not a bad thing for me, it was as if some of the Dolby was removed. In the case of my GT it sounded like a fresh set of strings but they weren't. When I switched to 50's wiring that was the icing on the cake. I weighed the Gibson stock non historic tail piece it weighed 89 grams. The PigTail tail piece weighed in at 29 grams. They both have a very different ring tone when tapped. I then had to reflect on what made the biggest difference. I think it was the 50's wiring. I think if I had started with that I may have left the rest alone for a while longer. I must admit that this forum inspired the purchase and the wait for the pig tail hardware. I have already decided that if I sell the guitars the pigtail hardware is not included.

 

[AndIfYouSayToMe]

Hey everyone. I had a quick question about the changes you all have been making. I noticed a few of you with reissues close to mine 59 standard R9, but I was wondering what differences you can expect from minor changes like these on such a guitar? I love my tone now, but I'm willing to try and experiment with some variety - if there is already a post regarding this specifically, then I'm sorry for hogging it. Just curious. Other than the tailpiece/studs/brushings - what types of mods may be a good start for experimentation?

and another to Hellhound: That website is indeed very dense. Now although, I would suggest a thorough read of all of the guide, you can browse through the Forum link which has specific "tricks of the trade" from members who have their own studios, and those that test exactly such things as mic placement in tons of different ways. You may even have specifics regarding the audio technica, as I believe I've seen it a few times through the forums and guide. There is are some great recording secrets revealed on the forum site, that may help in addition to trial and error - click the forum link, then scroll down to the section called Microphones, also don't forget the section in the forum a little lower called, guitar-basses-amps and gagetry - both those forum sections are excellent. The founder of the site also knows quite a bit, his Guide page - two from his guide that I liked are found below

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guitarists_guide_to_recording.htm

http://www.tweakheadz.com/getting_a_great_guitar_tone.htm

 

[PaulSG]

FWIW...Removing TP bushings is super easy and there is little to no chance of damaging your guitar if you use the simple tool I made pictured below.

I cut a piece of 1/2 PVC pipe 1" long. Added a little self adhesive foam to one end to protect the guitar finish. I bought a 5/16" fender washer and a 1-1/4" long 5/16-24 socket head cap screw. You place the PVC over the bushing. Put the SHCS through the fender washer and PVC and screw it into the bushing. You'll need a 1/4" allen wrench to tighten the SHCS, but as you tighten the SHCS the bushing pulls right out. Usually you can just press them in by hand when you replace them, but you may need a plastic face dead blow hammer to lightly tap them in.

In this pic the rough looking end is the adhesive foam "washer".

I think this tool cost all of $5.00 total to make.

 

[Minibucker]

I went through some tailpieces on my 07 std.

Stock Gibson heavy, normal string through, raised, stock Gibson studs - pretty much the original reference point. Things seemed to sound fine.

Stock Gibson heavy, top-wrapped, flat on body, stock Gibson studs - slightly clearer highs, slightly less mids. Not much different.

Gotoh Aluminum, normal string-through, raised, Gotoh studs - a bit more zing on the top end, woodier, warmer bloom in the mids. Sustain seems the same.

Gotoh Aluminum, top-wrapped, flat on body, Gotoh studs - even more top-end ring, but flatter in the mids than normal string-through, seemingly a little less sustain. Not really a noticeable difference in terms of string bending or resonance.

TonePros (Gotoh-made) heavy with locking screws, normal/raised, Gotoh studs - harder attack, equivalent top-end to aluminum, but harder mids with not as much bounce or warmth.

TonePros (Gotoh-made) heavy with locking screws, Top-wrapped, Gotoh studs - no noticeable difference from normal. Both ways with the TonePros was similar to the stock Gibson heavy, but slightly harder and flatter mids.

What did I stick with? Gotoh aluminum, normal string-through, raised a bit for clearance from back edge of tuneamatic bridge. Seems to let the notes bloom in the mids the best.

 

[Skydogfan81]

I have the pigtail tailpiece, al abr and studs, I liked it for a while, but its too bright so I switched back to the stock tp and abr and kept the pigtail studs