What Should I Pay For This Conversion?

jrock1 · 08-25-05, 09:59 PM

It's a 52/56 with a neck reset, refined gold top (both expertly done), non 50s tailpiece and ABR1 (aged nickel, though) and a (60's?) black case, Everything else is original and in excellent working order. Back of the body has quite a bit of belt buckle rash (but no big deal to me) Oh, and it supposedly plays like a dream. What should I be paying for this? Sorry - no pics...

TW59 · 08-25-05, 11:25 PM

What ever you feel comfortable with. ;)

Have you played it? :brow

fast ricky love · 08-26-05, 06:01 AM

What's the asking price?

jrock1 · 08-26-05, 06:03 AM

I'm trying to ascertain the fair market price for a 52/56 conversion with the mods I described. I've read most of the threads on this topic, but haven't really seen one that would suggest what fair price would be on one with the mods I described. Can anyone help with what they think fair market price would be?

I haven't played it, but from what I understand it does play great. I wonder what resetting the neck does to the tone, if anything?

Thanks for any help - need to make a decision soon...

Rich R · 08-26-05, 06:07 AM

You need to tell us the asking price...

hoss · 08-26-05, 06:10 AM

Yeah tell us the asking price.

I am very interested because I am in the market for such a guitar, too - as some here know

I got two different conversions offered, both are in the $12,000.- range

jrock1 · 08-26-05, 06:15 AM

$12,000 is in fact the asking price - I think that sounds reasonable, but:
1. non-original case
2. refined gold top
3. non-original tailpiece
4. (obviously) non-original ABR1 - I think it is a newer aged on, as is the tp
5. reset neck

Don L · 08-26-05, 06:15 AM

I believe the ones like that with the original finish were 12 -13K recently.

fast ricky love · 08-26-05, 07:16 AM

$12k is a good price, if you like it so far I'd jump on it.

sunburst1 · 08-26-05, 08:14 AM

What I find odd about all this conversion version stuff is the price people put on these guitars just because they were modded to take PAF's. I can see why some are valued well if they have stock gold finish and didn't need a neck reset and have mostly stock parts. I just have a hard time with a guitar that has no original finish in most cases no stock parts and the asking price is well over 10K? I sold a really nice 53 wrap tail with a minor headstock repair about 3 months ago for 11K after getting some real low ball offers so what gives with these coversion prices?

wicked1 · 08-26-05, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst1

What I find odd about all this conversion version stuff is the price people put on these guitars just because they were modded to take PAF's. I can see why some are valued well if they have stock gold finish and didn't need a neck reset and have mostly stock parts. I just have a hard time with a guitar that has no original finish in most cases no stock parts and the asking price is well over 10K? I sold a really nice 53 wrap tail with a minor headstock repair about 3 months ago for 11K after getting some real low ball offers so what gives with these coversion prices?

I'll go with headstock repairs, filled wrap tailpiece holes and reset necks would command a lower price -
Having said that, 50's Standards are at a premium and have nowhere to go but up. Get them while you can.

plaintop · 08-26-05, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst1

I sold a really nice 53 wrap tail with a minor headstock repair about 3 months ago for 11K after getting some real low ball offers so what gives with these coversion prices?

I'm going to go way out on a limb here........TONE! :ahem

bluesforstevie · 08-26-05, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst1

What I find odd about all this conversion version stuff is the price people put on these guitars just because they were modded to take PAF's. I can see why some are valued well if they have stock gold finish and didn't need a neck reset and have mostly stock parts. I just have a hard time with a guitar that has no original finish in most cases no stock parts and the asking price is well over 10K? I sold a really nice 53 wrap tail with a minor headstock repair about 3 months ago for 11K after getting some real low ball offers so what gives with these coversion prices?

A conversion should not be viewed through the vintage guitar guide prism. These guitars are developing a value that IMHO, is separate from the Vintage Market.

Additionally, you shouldn't compare a broken headstock to a neck on a 52 that has been professionally reset. To some anyway, a reset on a 52/3 makes them much easier to play.

The target market and indeed conditions and market forces are somewhat different for conversions.

One must look at a conversion as a way to play a 50's Les Paul with Humbuckers. Without conversions this dream would be just that a dream for many of us. But this is a market, predominated by guys like me, probably 35 to 50 who grew up lusting after the tone of my heroes, like the Allmans and have always wanted to play/own a 50's LP w PAF's, but could never afford it.

Enter, the conversion. You've tried all the replicas, reissues, Murphy aged this or that...and you've spent a shitload customizing to get THE TONE. You may get close with other guitars, but for some, like me, nothing short of 50's wood with PAF's will do.

How much will I pay to get a guitar with 99.9% the tone of Burst. I think the market doesn't lie.

jrock1 · 08-26-05, 10:36 AM

Bluesforstevie - I really trust your judgement on these things.

Two questions for you - or for anyone else who would like to weigh in:

1. You differentiated between a headstock repair and a neck reset - which, in your opinion, would degrade the value of these guitars more?

2. My thought is to leave the conversion as a 52/56 - in other words, leave in the p90s. Do your thoughts as you've described in your post still apply - or does the conversion need to go to a 52/57 (with real pafs) to validate your thoughts?

3. Would the guitar as I described be worth 12K in your opinion?

CDaughtry · 08-26-05, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesforstevie

A conversion should not be viewed through the vintage guitar guide prism. These guitars are developing a value that IMHO, is separate from the Vintage Market.

Additionally, you shouldn't compare a broken headstock to a neck on a 52 that has been professionally reset. To some anyway, a reset on a 52/3 makes them much easier to play.

The target market and indeed conditions and market forces are somewhat different for conversions.

One must look at a conversion as a way to play a 50's Les Paul with Humbuckers. Without conversions this dream would be just that a dream for many of us. But this is a market, predominated by guys like me, probably 35 to 50 who grew up lusting after the tone of my heroes, like the Allmans and have always wanted to play/own a 50's LP w PAF's, but could never afford it.

Enter, the conversion. You've tried all the replicas, reissues, Murphy aged this or that...and you've spent a shitload customizing to get THE TONE. You may get close with other guitars, but for some, like me, nothing short of 50's wood with PAF's will do.

How much will I pay to get a guitar with 99.9% the tone of Burst. I think the market doesn't lie.

BINGO! I couldn't have said it better myself.

bluesforstevie · 08-26-05, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrock1

Bluesforstevie - I really trust your judgement on these things.

Two questions for you - or for anyone else who would like to weigh in:

1. You differentiated between a headstock repair and a neck reset - which, in your opinion, would degrade the value of these guitars more?

2. My thought is to leave the conversion as a 52/56 - in other words, leave in the p90s. Do your thoughts as you've described in your post still apply - or does the conversion need to go to a 52/57 (with real pafs) to validate your thoughts?

3. Would the guitar as I described be worth 12K in your opinion?

You mean the neck has been reset but the guitar still has P90's???? Hell I love P90s, but if the necks been reset, I dont think I love them that much that I wouldn't be thinking of routing that SOB too. The neck reset is the hard part. But as you know I think the world of P90's.

If I knew who did the work, I think a neck reset could ADD value to the guitar. I know this flies in the face of conventional Vintage wisdom, but if it makes the easier to play or at least more utilitarian...personally I think it makes the guitar play better and sound more like a late 50's LP. The 52/3 have their own thing going.

A broken headstock is something I'd never buy. This is not based on anything but my preference.

I'd need to see it to pass any more judgement on it. If it was straight and as described, yes I think 12K is at least a fair market price.

jrock1 · 08-26-05, 11:02 AM

Thanks very much for your opinions, Bluesforstevie and everyone else. if I go for it, I'll let you know and post pics and give a tone report.

CDaughtry · 08-26-05, 11:06 AM

JRock....I hate to add to your G.A.S., but you gotta have two....one with P-90s and one with the buckers..... :2lol

sunburst1 · 08-26-05, 11:13 AM

[quote=bluesforstevie]A conversion should not be viewed through the vintage guitar guide prism. These guitars are developing a value that IMHO, is separate from the Vintage Market.

Additionally, you shouldn't compare a broken headstock to a neck on a 52 that has been professionally reset. To some anyway, a reset on a 52/3 makes them much easier to play.

The target market and indeed conditions and market forces are somewhat different for conversions.

One must look at a conversion as a way to play a 50's Les Paul with Humbuckers. Without conversions this dream would be just that a dream for many of us. But this is a market, predominated by guys like me, probably 35 to 50 who grew up lusting after the tone of my heroes, like the Allmans and have always wanted to play/own a 50's LP w PAF's, but could never afford it.

Enter, the conversion. You've tried all the replicas, reissues, Murphy aged this or that...and you've spent a shitload customizing to get THE TONE. You may get close with other guitars, but for some, like me, nothing short of 50's wood with PAF's will do.

How much will I pay to get a guitar with 99.9% the tone of Burst. I think the market doesn't lie.[/QUOTE

I agree with most of what you said. I don't think however they are seperate from the vintage market because of their price increase in the last 2 years or so. They are tied to the vintage LP market for sure imo. I guess many of you think that a stock guitar with P-90's is becoming less desired than a some what butchered conversion just because it has PAF's and they are precieved to sound better to most players. I guess i'm way out of the loop on this one. Tone aside it's kinda strange that so many nice vintage guitars have been converted just because one can't afford or justify to buy what they precieve as the real deal. Just my 2 cents In the end the market sets the price and people pay up or lose out as we've seen many times.
:bonk

jrock1 · 08-26-05, 11:23 AM

Quote:

JRock....I hate to add to your G.A.S., but you gotta have two....one with P-90s and one with the buckers.....

Now that's not fair!!!

plaintop · 08-26-05, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst1

Tone aside it's kinda strange that so many nice vintage guitars have been converted just because one can't afford or justify to buy what they precieve as the real deal. Just my 2 cents In the end the market sets the price and people pay up or lose out as we've seen many times.
:bonk

Do ya' have one?

sunburst1 · 08-26-05, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plaintop

Do ya' have one?

Have one of what?
:ahem

Don L · 08-26-05, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDaughtry

JRock....I hate to add to your G.A.S., but you gotta have two....one with P-90s and one with the buckers..... :2lol

I'd beg to differ. I'd go with two with PAFs...

Don L · 08-26-05, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst1

I guess many of you think that a stock guitar with P-90's is becoming less desired than a some what butchered conversion just because it has PAF's and they are precieved to sound better to most players.

I do not believe that is the case. Although their extraneous noises when gigging do annoy me, I do like the tone of the '50s P90s a lot. The PAFs just have more of what I like to hear when paired with the old woods. And what's with the use of the word "butchered" when referring to the conversions? Weren't all the guitars "butchered" in the factory when they were first made with the holes and various cavities drilled and the neck set (and then reset if not done right the first time) from the bare woods? :ahem

sunburst1 · 08-26-05, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don L

I do not believe that is the case. Although their extraneous noises when gigging do annoy me, I do like the tone of the '50s P90s a lot. The PAFs just have more of what I like to hear when paired with the old woods. And what's with the use of the word "butchered" when referring to the conversions? Weren't all the guitars "butchered" in the factory when they were first made with the holes and various cavities drilled and the neck set (and then reset if not done right the first time) from the bare woods? :ahem

The use of B word was a bit stong in this instance, sorry.
:wha :bonk

Don L · 08-26-05, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst1

The use of B word was a bit stong in this instance, sorry.
:wha :bonk

No problem.

plaintop · 08-26-05, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst1

Have one of what?
:ahem

:dude

jrock1 · 08-27-05, 09:04 AM

Here are some pics that I received for the guitar in question. What do the experts think?

plaintop · 08-27-05, 10:17 AM

Looks interesting, is that a headstock repair?

wicked1 · 08-27-05, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrock1

Here are some pics that I received for the guitar in question. What do the experts think?

It's a waste of time. Crap.

What's the guy's number? ;)

jrock1 · 08-27-05, 01:55 PM

He says its not a headstock repair, just the way the grain looks - or something to that effect. I can have at least a week to look her over, if I want - so if it is a headstock repair, I can return it. He mentioned to me before I saw it and said that it was not a repair. How does the top partial refin look? I say partial because I think the folks that did the top refin, didn't do the whole top, but blended where there was minor work done on the top where the trapeze bride part was pressed down into the top about an 1/8 of an inch - I guess trying to lower the action before the neck reset.

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08-25-05, 09:59 PM	#1
jrock1 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 198	What Should I Pay For This Conversion? It's a 52/56 with a neck reset, refined gold top (both expertly done), non 50s tailpiece and ABR1 (aged nickel, though) and a (60's?) black case, Everything else is original and in excellent working order. Back of the body has quite a bit of belt buckle rash (but no big deal to me) Oh, and it supposedly plays like a dream. What should I be paying for this? Sorry - no pics...

08-25-05, 11:25 PM	#2
TW59 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lost in the Ozarks [again] Posts: 23,529	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? What ever you feel comfortable with. ;) Have you played it? :brow __________________ Pauls to the walls! Hüter der Flammen!

08-26-05, 06:01 AM	#3
fast ricky love All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY NY Posts: 3,446	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? What's the asking price? __________________ bandsawnyc.com

08-26-05, 06:03 AM	#4
jrock1 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 198	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? I'm trying to ascertain the fair market price for a 52/56 conversion with the mods I described. I've read most of the threads on this topic, but haven't really seen one that would suggest what fair price would be on one with the mods I described. Can anyone help with what they think fair market price would be? I haven't played it, but from what I understand it does play great. I wonder what resetting the neck does to the tone, if anything? Thanks for any help - need to make a decision soon...

08-26-05, 06:07 AM	#5
Rich R In the Zone/Backstage Pass Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greater Deadwood, SD Posts: 4,518	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? You need to tell us the asking price...

08-26-05, 06:10 AM	#6
hoss Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 48.2080N 16.3573E @GoogleEarth Posts: 3,105	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? Yeah tell us the asking price. I am very interested because I am in the market for such a guitar, too - as some here know I got two different conversions offered, both are in the $12,000.- range __________________

08-26-05, 06:15 AM	#7
jrock1 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 198	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? $12,000 is in fact the asking price - I think that sounds reasonable, but: 1. non-original case 2. refined gold top 3. non-original tailpiece 4. (obviously) non-original ABR1 - I think it is a newer aged on, as is the tp 5. reset neck

08-26-05, 06:15 AM	#8
Don L Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: MD Posts: 6,661	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? I believe the ones like that with the original finish were 12 -13K recently. __________________ Some things just have to be believed to be seen.

08-26-05, 07:16 AM	#9
fast ricky love All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY NY Posts: 3,446	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? $12k is a good price, if you like it so far I'd jump on it. __________________ bandsawnyc.com

08-26-05, 08:14 AM	#10
sunburst1 In the Zone/Backstage Pass Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,396	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? What I find odd about all this conversion version stuff is the price people put on these guitars just because they were modded to take PAF's. I can see why some are valued well if they have stock gold finish and didn't need a neck reset and have mostly stock parts. I just have a hard time with a guitar that has no original finish in most cases no stock parts and the asking price is well over 10K? I sold a really nice 53 wrap tail with a minor headstock repair about 3 months ago for 11K after getting some real low ball offers so what gives with these coversion prices? __________________ "I got 11 mac11's... 38, 38's... 9, 9's... 10 mac10's the shit don't end......." "Only once the drugs are gone did i feel like dying, i feel like dying......" "I got so much shit you have a bag, if you're a snacker" "Talk about the feds , turn my scale on took a look at the work & say what's up......"

08-26-05, 10:36 AM	#14
jrock1 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 198	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? Bluesforstevie - I really trust your judgement on these things. Two questions for you - or for anyone else who would like to weigh in: 1. You differentiated between a headstock repair and a neck reset - which, in your opinion, would degrade the value of these guitars more? 2. My thought is to leave the conversion as a 52/56 - in other words, leave in the p90s. Do your thoughts as you've described in your post still apply - or does the conversion need to go to a 52/57 (with real pafs) to validate your thoughts? 3. Would the guitar as I described be worth 12K in your opinion?

08-26-05, 11:02 AM	#17
jrock1 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 198	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? Thanks very much for your opinions, Bluesforstevie and everyone else. if I go for it, I'll let you know and post pics and give a tone report.

08-26-05, 11:06 AM	#18
CDaughtry In the Zone/Backstage Pass Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 7,952	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? JRock....I hate to add to your G.A.S., but you gotta have two....one with P-90s and one with the buckers..... :2lol __________________ www.reverbnation.com/therelicsrock www.soundclick.com/charlesdaughtry www.charlesdaughtry.com (Photographs)

08-26-05, 11:13 AM	#19
sunburst1 In the Zone/Backstage Pass Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,396	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? [quote=bluesforstevie]A conversion should not be viewed through the vintage guitar guide prism. These guitars are developing a value that IMHO, is separate from the Vintage Market. Additionally, you shouldn't compare a broken headstock to a neck on a 52 that has been professionally reset. To some anyway, a reset on a 52/3 makes them much easier to play. The target market and indeed conditions and market forces are somewhat different for conversions. One must look at a conversion as a way to play a 50's Les Paul with Humbuckers. Without conversions this dream would be just that a dream for many of us. But this is a market, predominated by guys like me, probably 35 to 50 who grew up lusting after the tone of my heroes, like the Allmans and have always wanted to play/own a 50's LP w PAF's, but could never afford it. Enter, the conversion. You've tried all the replicas, reissues, Murphy aged this or that...and you've spent a shitload customizing to get THE TONE. You may get close with other guitars, but for some, like me, nothing short of 50's wood with PAF's will do. How much will I pay to get a guitar with 99.9% the tone of Burst. I think the market doesn't lie.[/QUOTE I agree with most of what you said. I don't think however they are seperate from the vintage market because of their price increase in the last 2 years or so. They are tied to the vintage LP market for sure imo. I guess many of you think that a stock guitar with P-90's is becoming less desired than a some what butchered conversion just because it has PAF's and they are precieved to sound better to most players. I guess i'm way out of the loop on this one. Tone aside it's kinda strange that so many nice vintage guitars have been converted just because one can't afford or justify to buy what they precieve as the real deal. Just my 2 cents In the end the market sets the price and people pay up or lose out as we've seen many times. :bonk __________________ "I got 11 mac11's... 38, 38's... 9, 9's... 10 mac10's the shit don't end......." "Only once the drugs are gone did i feel like dying, i feel like dying......" "I got so much shit you have a bag, if you're a snacker" "Talk about the feds , turn my scale on took a look at the work & say what's up......"

08-27-05, 09:04 AM	#28
jrock1 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 198	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? Here are some pics that I received for the guitar in question. What do the experts think?

08-27-05, 10:17 AM	#29
plaintop Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: MD Posts: 9,588	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? Looks interesting, is that a headstock repair?

08-27-05, 01:55 PM	#31
jrock1 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 198	Re: What Should I Pay For This Conversion? He says its not a headstock repair, just the way the grain looks - or something to that effect. I can have at least a week to look her over, if I want - so if it is a headstock repair, I can return it. He mentioned to me before I saw it and said that it was not a repair. How does the top partial refin look? I say partial because I think the folks that did the top refin, didn't do the whole top, but blended where there was minor work done on the top where the trapeze bride part was pressed down into the top about an 1/8 of an inch - I guess trying to lower the action before the neck reset.