question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's - Page 5

StSpider · 05-07-12, 05:19 PM

Maybe I'm biased and I'm fooling myself since I just bought a new 330, but altough there are definitely differencies with the originals, it seems to me that with the new 330 they came much closer to vintage proportions, expecially bridge / pickup overall placement compared to the "mess" that 335 reissue are..

TomGuitar · 05-07-12, 06:01 PM

If you want a guitar that looks, feels, smells, and sounds like a 50+ year old guitar, you'll have to buy a 50+ year old guitar. Simple as that.

If you can't afford one, buy a new one. I have played several newer 335s that are fine instruments. Really fine. They just don't look or sound or feel or smell like a great old 335 (nor should they actually, but that's another argument entirely) or buy an early 80s Dot. There are a lot of really good ones that cost no more than the new ones.

Now if they could just get the smell right.

CoolGuitarz · 05-07-12, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomGuitar

If you want a guitar that looks, feels, smells, and sounds like a 50+ year old guitar, you'll have to buy a 50+ year old guitar. Simple as that.

..what if i simply want a new guitar thats shaped like an old one??

TomGuitar · 05-07-12, 06:23 PM

From what I see and am reading here, it appears that you can't have it.

j45 · 05-07-12, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomGuitar

If you want a guitar that looks, feels, smells, and sounds like a 50+ year old guitar, you'll have to buy a 50+ year old guitar. Simple as that.

Not so

You cannot tell the difference in any way between the reissue and an original '59 335:

"this world-class semi-hollowbody is indistinguishable in every way from the 335s that rolled off the line in '59. It's even made on the exact same forms used then."

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...ELAID=26043746

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-C...11-i1149443.gc

vintage58 · 05-07-12, 11:44 PM

I can't decide whether that ad copy is hilarious or sad. For now, I'm gonna go with hilarious.
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PHILBERT · 05-08-12, 05:10 AM

But after the laughs are over you get this empty feeling inside and then the sadness comes on fast.

OKGuitar · 05-08-12, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomGuitar

If you want a guitar that looks, feels, smells, and sounds like a 50+ year old guitar, you'll have to buy a 50+ year old guitar. Simple as that.

If you can't afford one, buy a new one. I have played several newer 335s that are fine instruments. Really fine. They just don't look or sound or feel or smell like a great old 335 (nor should they actually, but that's another argument entirely) or buy an early 80s Dot. There are a lot of really good ones that cost no more than the new ones.

Now if they could just get the smell right.

A week or two in a stinky case and a few dozen cigarettes will get you all the vintage smell you want. Or buy an early 80's dot (30 years is plenty of time for a guitar to smell old).

TomGuitar · 05-08-12, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKGuitar

A week or two in a stinky case and a few dozen cigarettes will get you all the vintage smell you want. Or buy an early 80's dot (30 years is plenty of time for a guitar to smell old).

C'mon Charlie, there's more to the smell than that.

And re the 80's dot... I've had a few, and you know, they just don't have that smell. They should. Don't know why they don't.

brandtkronholm · 05-08-12, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Now if they could just get the smell right.

Quote:

A week or two in a stinky case ... will get you all the vintage smell you want.

Quote:

...there's more to the smell than that...they just don't have that smell

Ya know, that smell is kinda gross. It "puts the hurts on my nose" as Mr. Zappa once said. It's a mix of old folks home and barf. It seems like it's mostly due to the switch tip. Have you ever gotten one of those things warm? Pee-yoo! (Seriously, take your vintage switch tip off and rub it quickly on your pants then take a whiff!) Switch tip not with standing, I'm sure there are other olfactory indicators at play. The old lifton cases have a distinct bouquet, but then again, they've been snuggling with a stinky guitar for 50 years.

I have a road case that has a smell similar to vintage Gibsons. It is potent and pungent and I have no idea why...

Please, no jokes about rubbing your tip with your pants...that would just be too easy.

Minibucker · 05-08-12, 06:10 PM

Just don't keep your pants in the case. Problem solved.

D'Mule · 05-09-12, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j45

Not so

You cannot tell the difference in any way between the reissue and an original '59 335:

"this world-class semi-hollowbody is indistinguishable in every way from the 335s that rolled off the line in '59. It's even made on the exact same forms used then."

Maybe they are made the same. It's just that those old guitars have changed shape in the last 50 years. Kinda like us.

MRTONEMAN · 05-09-12, 10:07 AM

Since this became the end all es335 thread. .... Something else that needs to be looked at by Gibson is the neck depth and angle of various years. I hope "TOMGUITAR" doesn't mind me lifting his pictures from an old thread.

Since they varied I guess there is no one end all correct spec. Nonetheless I bet especially the Memphis Reissues could benefit from some tweaking here.

One is a 1959 and the other a 1964. (pics courtesy of TOMGUITAR)

TomGuitar · 05-09-12, 05:01 PM

Mr. Tone man, I don't mind at all.

And while that detail makes little visual difference, there are several of us who agree that the deeper set and lower angle examples sound better.

bern1 · 05-09-12, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomGuitar

Mr. Tone man, I don't mind at all.

And while that detail makes little visual difference, there are several of us who agree that the deeper set and lower angle examples sound better.

Interesting, as I think the same of Les Pauls with the lower neck angle.

Frutiger · 05-10-12, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomGuitar

If you can't afford one, buy a new one. I have played several newer 335s that are fine instruments. Really fine. They just don't look or sound or feel or smell like a great old 335 (nor should they actually, but that's another argument entirely) or buy an early 80s Dot. There are a lot of really good ones that cost no more than the new ones.

Now if they could just get the smell right.

Or do what I did and buy a refinish with a few other issues. My black '62 cost me less than a brand new block reissue. Plus it still smells old, sounds great and the braz board feels old too.

Litcrit · 05-10-12, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frutiger

Or do what I did and buy a refinish with a few other issues. My black '62 cost me less than a brand new block reissue. Plus it still smells old, sounds great and the braz board feels old too.

Very cool! That's what I said on page 1: for the 5K that the reissue costs, I'd rather have an original with some "issues".

MRTONEMAN · 05-10-12, 02:49 PM

For comparison sake, here are neck depth sets of 3 of mine. All are less than 4 years old so they should be a good representation of current production vs the previous vintage ones posted.

Gibson Memphis es335 Dot Reissue

Gibson Nashville es335 59 Historic

Heritage 535

Cody · 05-10-12, 02:57 PM

Gee, which ones have tortoise side dots...?

vintage58 · 05-11-12, 12:24 AM

Not an ES-3x5.... but, Gibson, if you're out there following this discussion — the below bass is a good example, I think, of what vintage '59/'60-era Mickey Mouse ears are supposed to look like (and also of how a good vintage sunburst should look, color-wise):

OKGuitar · 05-12-12, 12:34 PM

OK. The one on the left is the real deal. The one in the middle is a reissue and the one on the right is made by a luthier in Michigan (I have one of these if I ever get it finished). Certainly better than Gibson's attempt.

J.D. · 05-12-12, 12:41 PM

Three different guitars, three different markets/buyers. Like comparing a '59 Les Paul to a Max and to a Historic.

CoolGuitarz · 05-12-12, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.D.

Like comparing a '59 Les Paul to a Max and to a Historic.

no, its more like comparing a cool-looking gibson original to a shitty-looking gibson reissue and a cool-looking non-gibson replica..

J.D. · 05-12-12, 01:00 PM

That is subjective. There are plenty of us who like the reissues

OKGuitar · 05-12-12, 01:27 PM

I could nitpick the hand made replica but it's still more accurate than anything else I've seen from Gibson or anyone else. The builder put a lot of effort into getting as close as possible to one particular 59.

J.D. · 05-12-12, 01:29 PM

I'd be curious as to what the selling price of one of these hand-built replicas is

Minibucker · 05-12-12, 01:55 PM

Whatever it is, you'll have to pay for it in 50's dollars....or at least spot-on replicas of them.

vintage58 · 05-12-12, 02:06 PM

Interesting — and sad — that the replica maker, as a single individual person, was able to do what Gibson (a multimillion-dollar corporation) evidently cannot....
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Cliff Gress · 05-12-12, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minibucker

Whatever it is, you'll have to pay for it in 50's dollars....or at least spot-on replicas of them.

Oh boy here it comes...vintage money!!!

Minibucker · 05-12-12, 03:07 PM

What's the point otherwise?

loufed52 · 05-13-12, 07:45 AM

As most of us know, it's not just the shape.
I've owned a fair amount of 3x5s/333s and I like the modern ones.
For the most part, they play well and sound great.
IMO, it's a lot easier to find a good modern semi-hollow Gibson than a solid body one.

However, if you play them alongside a vintage one, they feel heavier and "stiffer", for lack of a better word.
I have no idea if that comes from the glue, laminate plies, center block, whatever.
It's a subjective thing, but I feel it.

Emperor-TK · 05-13-12, 08:01 AM

One notable replica builder has used these bodies for his finished build, and he charges in the neighborhood of $10K from what I understand. But before you jump on that price, he makes EVERYTHING from scratch, including the pickguard, pickups, pickup rings, switch tips, plastic strap buttons, etc. It is intended to be a dead-nuts replica. He could probably pull off a great player with off-the shelf parts for half the money.

Another not-so-notable builder (me) will use a couple of these bodies to make replicas for much less money. I'm just waiting on some Brazilian boards to get started.

Minibucker · 05-13-12, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loufed52

As most of us know, it's not just the shape.
I've owned a fair amount of 3x5s/333s and I like the modern ones.
For the most part, they play well and sound great.
IMO, it's a lot easier to find a good modern semi-hollow Gibson than a solid body one.

However, if you play them alongside a vintage one, they feel heavier and "stiffer", for lack of a better word.
I have no idea if that comes from the glue, laminate plies, center block, whatever.
It's a subjective thing, but I feel it.

And 50+ years of seasoning. ;-)

bern1 · 05-13-12, 07:38 PM

Does seasoning really come into it? I mean the originals were plywood. The glue joints weren't particularly clean. It was, like most ES models, a mid priced sort of "economy" guitar.

I agree for the most part with "stiffer", describing the modern ones, just can't figure out where that comes from....

maybe it's just the hide glue in the neck joint and in whatever other places it is.

vintage58 · 05-13-12, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bern1

I agree for the most part with "stiffer", describing the modern ones, just can't figure out where that comes from....

If we're talking feel, the most immediately apparent tactile difference between vintage and reissue would be between the respective lacquer formulations used on each. The recent nitrocellulouse formulation that Gibson has been using on reissues over the last five years or so feels rubbery and plastic-y compared with vintage lacquer, which is more brittle to the touch. The finishes that Gibson has been using on recent reissues, by comparison, can sometimes feel sort of like a laminated library card. Even though the thicknesses of vintage and reissue finishes are probably not that different, the amount of plasticizers used in each is (and markedly so, at that); anyway, I think the "stiffness" attributed to reissues could well be an outgrowth of the lacquer used on them. This is because it has less of a tendency to become "one" with the wood, than old lacquer did.
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Minibucker · 05-13-12, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bern1

Does seasoning really come into it? I mean the originals were plywood. The glue joints weren't particularly clean. It was, like most ES models, a mid priced sort of "economy" guitar.

I agree for the most part with "stiffer", describing the modern ones, just can't figure out where that comes from....

maybe it's just the hide glue in the neck joint and in whatever other places it is.

Depends...was anyone here around in '58-'63 to try one of these new out of the factory to confirm some 50+ years later that they haven't changed?

As I've also mentioned, I think the wood that they were choosing from and using back then was of generally better quality than today. I forgot if it was in this forum, but there as also a article posted on Stradavarius, and how a particular batch of wood that he chose came from an area of forest that went through a particularly cold spell like 100 years before and could have contributed to the quality of that harvested batch.

Are you sure the ES-335 was originally intended as an 'economy' guitar...seeing that they originally sold for over $270 in 1958 in the day, the equivalent of over $2000 today and more than for the Les Paul at the time?

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/y...9pricelist.jpg

vintage58 · 05-13-12, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minibucker

Depends...was anyone here around in '58-'63 to try one of these new out of the factory to confirm some 50+ years later that they haven't changed?

I've had the opportunity to play more than one mint-condition Gibson electric from the Golden Era. Not in 1959, but now. Guitars with basically no lacquer checking, and that also have hardware with shiny, fully-intact plating. Even without any "aging," these guitars do still feel quite different from their reissue counterparts. Fifty years of aging does add an additional dimension to the different feel, but IMO the vintage ones started out with an innately different feel than the feel that the reissues have. The cumulative effect of things like different lacquer and different manufacturing techniques results in an immediately noticeable difference in feel.
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Minibucker · 05-13-12, 09:10 PM

Again, better wood and craftsmanship maybe?

But really, how many people here when they say 'not like they used to be' were actually around back then to try them when they, like today, were brand new? Who at Gibson was?

vintage58 · 05-13-12, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minibucker

But really, how many people here when they say 'not like they used to be' were actually around back then to try them when they, like today, were brand new? Who at Gibson was?

I've had the opportunity to play more than one mint-condition Gibson electric from the Golden Era. Not in 1959, but now. Guitars with basically no lacquer checking, and that also have hardware with shiny, fully-intact plating. Even without any "aging," these guitars do still feel quite different from their reissue counterparts. Fifty years of aging does add an additional dimension to the different feel, but IMO the vintage ones started out with an innately different feel than the feel that the reissues have. The cumulative effect of things like different lacquer and different manufacturing techniques results in an immediately noticeable difference in feel.
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Minibucker · 05-13-12, 09:52 PM

Again, better wood and craftsmanship maybe?

Do you feel it's something that can be measured and consistently recreated today, and again how many out there in their intended customer base have had opportunities like yours? The thing is, if they are indeed reissue and not replicas, it's not like they're specifically promising that level of recreation...nor expecting that level of first hand side-by-side comparison, either.

The Fender Forum	The Cafe Wah	LilyPix
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05-07-12, 05:19 PM	#161
StSpider Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Padua, Italy Posts: 1,923	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Maybe I'm biased and I'm fooling myself since I just bought a new 330, but altough there are definitely differencies with the originals, it seems to me that with the new 330 they came much closer to vintage proportions, expecially bridge / pickup overall placement compared to the "mess" that 335 reissue are.. __________________ - 2006 Les Paul Historic R4 Oxblood - 2012 ES-330TDVB - 1995 Les Paul Studio Ebony with B7 Bigsby There is NO substitute for Loudness.

05-07-12, 06:01 PM	#162
TomGuitar All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,628	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's If you want a guitar that looks, feels, smells, and sounds like a 50+ year old guitar, you'll have to buy a 50+ year old guitar. Simple as that. If you can't afford one, buy a new one. I have played several newer 335s that are fine instruments. Really fine. They just don't look or sound or feel or smell like a great old 335 (nor should they actually, but that's another argument entirely) or buy an early 80s Dot. There are a lot of really good ones that cost no more than the new ones. Now if they could just get the smell right. __________________ Please visit The Golden Era of Gibson Thinlines.

05-07-12, 06:23 PM	#164
TomGuitar All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,628	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's From what I see and am reading here, it appears that you can't have it. __________________ Please visit The Golden Era of Gibson Thinlines.

05-07-12, 11:44 PM	#166
vintage58 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Detached and subdivided in the mass-production zone. Posts: 3,605	I can't decide whether that ad copy is hilarious or sad. For now, I'm gonna go with hilarious. . . . . . . . . __________________ "And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be, within the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing . . . a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propa- ganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods." Aldous Huxley, 1961

05-08-12, 05:10 AM	#167
PHILBERT Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,416	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's But after the laughs are over you get this empty feeling inside and then the sadness comes on fast. __________________ Phil "Sometimes life is a beach." http://youtu.be/ttqhJy9UA9Q (warning: 1080P full screen HD content with wide stereo sound. High speed connection advised.) http://youtu.be/ybDROZZphAQ

05-08-12, 06:10 PM	#171
Minibucker Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,792	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Just don't keep your pants in the case. Problem solved.

05-09-12, 10:07 AM	#173
MRTONEMAN Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 759	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Since this became the end all es335 thread. .... Something else that needs to be looked at by Gibson is the neck depth and angle of various years. I hope "TOMGUITAR" doesn't mind me lifting his pictures from an old thread. Since they varied I guess there is no one end all correct spec. Nonetheless I bet especially the Memphis Reissues could benefit from some tweaking here. One is a 1959 and the other a 1964. (pics courtesy of TOMGUITAR)

05-09-12, 05:01 PM	#174
TomGuitar All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 3,628	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Mr. Tone man, I don't mind at all. And while that detail makes little visual difference, there are several of us who agree that the deeper set and lower angle examples sound better. __________________ Please visit The Golden Era of Gibson Thinlines.

05-10-12, 02:49 PM	#178
MRTONEMAN Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 759	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's For comparison sake, here are neck depth sets of 3 of mine. All are less than 4 years old so they should be a good representation of current production vs the previous vintage ones posted. Gibson Memphis es335 Dot Reissue Gibson Nashville es335 59 Historic Heritage 535

05-10-12, 02:57 PM	#179
Cody All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A stone's throw from Malibu... if you throw REALLY hard! I mean REALLY hard! Posts: 3,917	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Gee, which ones have tortoise side dots...?

05-11-12, 12:24 AM	#180
vintage58 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Detached and subdivided in the mass-production zone. Posts: 3,605	Not an ES-3x5.... but, Gibson, if you're out there following this discussion — the below bass is a good example, I think, of what vintage '59/'60-era Mickey Mouse ears are supposed to look like (and also of how a good vintage sunburst should look, color-wise): __________________ "And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be, within the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing . . . a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propa- ganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods." Aldous Huxley, 1961

05-12-12, 12:34 PM	#181
OKGuitar Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 679	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's OK. The one on the left is the real deal. The one in the middle is a reissue and the one on the right is made by a luthier in Michigan (I have one of these if I ever get it finished). Certainly better than Gibson's attempt. __________________ Read my ES-335 blog at www.es-335.org

05-12-12, 12:41 PM	#182
J.D. Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,762	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Three different guitars, three different markets/buyers. Like comparing a '59 Les Paul to a Max and to a Historic.

05-12-12, 01:00 PM	#184
J.D. Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,762	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's That is subjective. There are plenty of us who like the reissues

05-12-12, 01:27 PM	#185
OKGuitar Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 679	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's I could nitpick the hand made replica but it's still more accurate than anything else I've seen from Gibson or anyone else. The builder put a lot of effort into getting as close as possible to one particular 59. __________________ Read my ES-335 blog at www.es-335.org

05-12-12, 01:29 PM	#186
J.D. Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,762	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's I'd be curious as to what the selling price of one of these hand-built replicas is

05-12-12, 01:55 PM	#187
Minibucker Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,792	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Whatever it is, you'll have to pay for it in 50's dollars....or at least spot-on replicas of them.

05-12-12, 02:06 PM	#188
vintage58 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Detached and subdivided in the mass-production zone. Posts: 3,605	Interesting — and sad — that the replica maker, as a single individual person, was able to do what Gibson (a multimillion-dollar corporation) evidently cannot.... . . . . . . . __________________ "And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be, within the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing . . . a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propa- ganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods." Aldous Huxley, 1961

05-12-12, 03:07 PM	#190
Minibucker Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,792	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's What's the point otherwise?

05-13-12, 07:45 AM	#191
loufed52 Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,178	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's As most of us know, it's not just the shape. I've owned a fair amount of 3x5s/333s and I like the modern ones. For the most part, they play well and sound great. IMO, it's a lot easier to find a good modern semi-hollow Gibson than a solid body one. However, if you play them alongside a vintage one, they feel heavier and "stiffer", for lack of a better word. I have no idea if that comes from the glue, laminate plies, center block, whatever. It's a subjective thing, but I feel it.

05-13-12, 08:01 AM	#192
Emperor-TK Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 332	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's One notable replica builder has used these bodies for his finished build, and he charges in the neighborhood of $10K from what I understand. But before you jump on that price, he makes EVERYTHING from scratch, including the pickguard, pickups, pickup rings, switch tips, plastic strap buttons, etc. It is intended to be a dead-nuts replica. He could probably pull off a great player with off-the shelf parts for half the money. Another not-so-notable builder (me) will use a couple of these bodies to make replicas for much less money. I'm just waiting on some Brazilian boards to get started.

05-13-12, 07:38 PM	#194
bern1 All Access/Backstage Pass Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: on the edge Posts: 707	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Does seasoning really come into it? I mean the originals were plywood. The glue joints weren't particularly clean. It was, like most ES models, a mid priced sort of "economy" guitar. I agree for the most part with "stiffer", describing the modern ones, just can't figure out where that comes from.... maybe it's just the hide glue in the neck joint and in whatever other places it is. __________________ www.countlorenzo.com

05-13-12, 09:10 PM	#198
Minibucker Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,792	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Again, better wood and craftsmanship maybe? But really, how many people here when they say 'not like they used to be' were actually around back then to try them when they, like today, were brand new? Who at Gibson was?

05-13-12, 09:52 PM	#200
Minibucker Les Paul Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,792	Re: question (rant, really) about recent Custom Shop ES-3x5's Again, better wood and craftsmanship maybe? Do you feel it's something that can be measured and consistently recreated today, and again how many out there in their intended customer base have had opportunities like yours? The thing is, if they are indeed reissue and not replicas, it's not like they're specifically promising that level of recreation...nor expecting that level of first hand side-by-side comparison, either. Last edited by Minibucker : 10-20-12 at 11:12 PM.