Best tonal changes for your historic/recommendations please

[Zoomer]

Originally Posted by bigjimsguitars

What gets me is that Gibson is making a really good Historic Les Paul off the shelf, but they have to read or are aware of the burgeoning after market parts that are superior in looks, tone, feel to what they're using or making.

We're talking about only a few hundred bucks for Gibson to make a superior product over what they are doing now, and it would be more period correct.

For starters, Gibson could wire them old school, using Vintage spec Potentiometers...cost would be negligible to minor.

Could use vintage length Studs...cost negligible to minor.

These two changes would cost at most a few dollars per instrument and will make a world of difference in tone.

Kudos to Gibson for going wireless on the ABR-1's and the other changes they made in 2009.

But they could opt for correct looking tuners, e.g., Single Line, Single Ring that are offered after market. The cost of this would also be little if anything to Gibson.

The rest would be cosmetic, like the color of the plastic parts and inlays, which Gibson has been improving and are getting closer to the real deal.

I have to thank people like Kim (Retrospec), Roy & Scott (RS Guitarworks), Larry (CV Guitars/Faber), Gord (Vintage Clone) and the others out there Fat Boy, Over the Pond, for taking the time and energy for making some great after market products to satiate our appetites for making our humble Historic Les Paul's better!

I agree as well Jim - as a matter of pride if I saw all these aftermarket companies making my guitars more accurate - in other words BETTER than me I would be pissed and I would make sure they weren't necessary.

I think Gibson is a money making company if they make the "almost right" and every several years and keep upgrading they are creating more of a demand for the more recent models since they are MORE original that previous re-issues. If they made the perfectly right since 1993 when the historics started I don't think they could sell over 2000+ a year like they have for the past few years.

[J.D.]

*BINGO*

[StSpider]

Originally Posted by bigtomrodney

I always thought it didn't really matter, I figured they're making contact then they're alright. Perhaps that's half-true, if your saddles aren't notched at all then maybe you don't need to worry. What I found was the trouble was incorrectly notched saddles so that a string was really only resting on the corners of the notch. This was lessening transfer and hindering vibration. It's not that you hear it every time and say "oh that's not notched properly". It's more that when it is notched you'll wonder how you got by with out it. I used a set of fine gauged files to do mine. Each was ever so slightly larger than the string gauge resting on it. I also cleaned away and flashing or snagging edges with a smaller file and then wire wool.

Thank you. I'm wondering about it because I wish the strings would stay perfectly aligned on the polepieces, and normally they do but at the same time I don't feel as comfortable "whacking" the strings when needed.

I really don't want for the saddles to eventually develop some smaller notches on their own, unalligned.

[korus]

1. http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore...roducts_id=219 for tone pots 2 * $4.50 = $9.00
2. http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore...roducts_id=386 for volume pots 2 * $14.50 = $29.00
3. http://www.callahamguitars.com/abr1.htm Stainless steel Vintage Studs and Thumbwheels (set of 2) $12.00
4. http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore...roducts_id=233 $30.00

TOTAL : $80.00 (without shipping)

This will DE-MUD your Rx and show you it's potential.
If you find out you like what you hear then pickups upgrade should/will be next, or not (personal preference).

[rockinlespaul]

Originally Posted by Black58

'09 R8 - "Reygan"

Pigtail (RIP, Steve) steel studs
Gibson NP brass thumbwheels
Gibson NON-potted BB 1&2
GROVERS

And the bridge and tailpiece if I may ask?

[bluesjuke]

Originally Posted by StSpider

I'll add that with a properly done rewire sometimes you do get an overall better clarity and a bit of brightess, due to (if correctly done) better solder joints. Sometimes.

Recently I rewired an older RS Vintage kit to '50s wiring after having used the RS wiring diagram.
I previously did my R6 in '50s wiring.

Something wasn't right and I rechecked it the next weekend.

On the neck I had swapped the switch and pickup wire on the pot.
Once I corrected it and redid the ground on the back of the neck pot too I have been in heaven with the R8.

I never have had clarity like this on any Les Paul I've owned.
It's not just increased clarity either, it's clarity like I've never heard on any LP.

'57 Classics BTW.

I have done the MapleFlame mod a while back and it was a great change for the better.

[RJLII]

I must be lucky, as my R6 and R8 both sounded great right out of the case. I'll have to say however that the tone of both is dramatically improved the more I practice. Funny how that works.

[Elmore]

Originally Posted by maven

I'm interested in this too..I checked out the Faber stuff but I don't see the aged parts...Website, link?

You can get the best nickel parts and then do the aging yourself. There are several threads on this.

[bluesjuke]

Originally Posted by RJLII

I must be lucky, as my R6 and R8 both sounded great right out of the case. I'll have to say however that the tone of both is dramatically improved the more I practice. Funny how that works.

So did my R6 but the 50's wiring gives some good benefits.

The R8 is a '98 and back then the pots were notorius for being crap- they woirked like on/ off switches.
The was no useable turning down of the pots.
That's likely the biggest reason for the RS initial success.

My R6, an '06, has an RS kit sitting here for it that likely will never be installed.
Moving that one wire on each pickups volume control made a sweet difference.

What years are your's?
I'll bet it's a good chance it's after Gibson changed to 500k pots.

[RJLII]

Originally Posted by bluesjuke

What years are your's?
I'll bet it's a good chance it's after Gibson changed to 500k pots.

Both my R6 and R8 are 2007 build years according to the S#s.

[sharq attaq]

sure, all these things can make a difference....IMO, pickups being the most affecting.

But...

(and I'm really not trying to be a smartass here)

If you want your $3000 guitar to sound amazing, invest some equally serious money in the right amp.

I don't know what any of you play through, but a so so amp will lead you on a long and expensive snipe hunt to improve something (your guitar) that is already very good or even excellent.

[bluesjuke]

Originally Posted by RJLII

Both my R6 and R8 are 2007 build years according to the S#s.

You have the newer 550k pots in yours then.


Amen on the good amp sharq attaq.
Good guitar/ bad amp = pissing in the wind.

[Coda]

I have been following this thread - I don't see any mention of tone-pros hardware ? (e.g higher mass locking ABR bridge). I would be interested to hear feedback on these replacement parts.

[rockinlespaul]

Originally Posted by Greco

Refinish

I'm actually considering getting a top only refin in gold.

I'd do the back in a medium brownish color more truer to a 50's but I don't think you could completely get rid of that cherry die can you?

[rockinlespaul]

Originally Posted by sharq attaq

sure, all these things can make a difference....IMO, pickups being the most affecting.

But...

(and I'm really not trying to be a smartass here)

If you want your $3000 guitar to sound amazing, invest some equally serious money in the right amp.

I don't know what any of you play through, but a so so amp will lead you on a long and expensive snipe hunt to improve something (your guitar) that is already very good or even excellent.

Concentrating on the guitar. I have my 1974X dialed in.

[rockinlespaul]

Getting the pup/pot/cap thing out of the way real fast...

Being a 2003, what would this have for pots? I'm thinking I'l go with the RS stuff or spec some myself.

It currently has a set of '57 Classics in it. Those will be replaced with a set of old Wolfe PAF clone's with 50's long mags.

Pretty sure the caps are reissue bee's. I'll change those out for vintage most likely from my stash.

Haven't looked at the wiring, but regardless, it will be wired 50's style.

I appreciate all the valuable info folk's, keep it coming.

I'd like to know how well the Tone Pro's stuff fares compared to the others...RS, Faber, Pigtail, etc. as well.

[Black58]

Originally Posted by rockinlespaul

And the bridge and tailpiece if I may ask?

Stock, brother.
NOTHING wrong with those parts, IMNSHO.

[Smolder]

My 2007 R8; Mapleflame mod, 50's wiring, greenie caps, tone pros locking bridge and tail... Jmrolph '58's... And I couldn't care less about (historical) accuracy. It's all about tone.

[bigjimsguitars]

There are two things you can do that are free to get better tone/sustain:

1. With the strings off, put the stoptail on and adjust one of the studs up or down to lock the stoptail;
a. This acts in the same principle as a TonePros locking stoptail;
b. I personally like to raise the treble side as it seems to make bending easier.

2. Remove the ABR-1 Bridge and gently bend each post outward just a hint;
a. This also works in the same manner as a TonePro's Locking ABR-1.

[les strat]

Steel Pigtail studs for me. MAde a HUGE difference in focus/punch.

Other noteable things I have done:
Rewired 50's style

Use RS pots/caps

Found the best pickup for my R8 bridge slot is a '57 Classic Plus.... after several boutique pickups. Go figure.

[Black58]

Originally Posted by Black58

'09 R8 - "Reygan"

Pigtail (RIP, Steve) steel studs
Gibson NP brass thumbwheels
Gibson NON-potted BB 1&2
GROVERS

*update*

Swapped Gibson NP brass 'wheels for Retrospec.

[Slashburst]

Guys,

I am ordering a bumble bee and caps kit at RS. Which shaft should I take to My LP Standard 2008? Long or small shaft?

Thank u

[59Vampire]

Originally Posted by davieraydon

Bigger fret wire.

Hey Fred! Hope all is well on your end! I will address the quote in a minute. One simple little thing I did which made a noticeable difference, although it could be imaginary, was the addition of a second thumbwheel on each post. I just had my guitar pleked a few years ago and was screwing around with going back and forth between different strings when I had found in a box a second set of thumbwheel things for the abr. So I thought it would be cool to add them. Call me silly but I think the extra mass did something and the wire thingy stopped vibrating so thats all I really cared about!


How does fret wire change tone? Feel I can understand. I have been so tempted to put humongous frets on my historic but I need the nibs! LOL

Gotta love a cherry red R7

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by Slashburst

Guys,

I am ordering a bumble bee and caps kit at RS. Which shaft should I take to My LP Standard 2008? Long or small shaft?

Thank u

Long shaft.
(that's what she said)

[Slashburst]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

Long shaft.
(that's what she said)

Thanks a lot Cooljuk!

[bluesjuke]

Originally Posted by Slashburst

Guys,

I am ordering a bumble bee and caps kit at RS. Which shaft should I take to My LP Standard 2008? Long or small shaft?

Thank u

Or....remove the ground plate in the cavity , get short shafts , and reduce the weight of your guitar a little bit at the same time.

[bigjimsguitars]

Originally Posted by bluesjuke

Or....remove the ground plate in the cavity , get short shafts , and reduce the weight of your guitar a little bit at the same time.

Not as easy as it sounds...the tops are usually a bit thicker and you will need to deepen the control cavity to accomodate short shafts.

[bluesjuke]

No kidding.
Those over the years that have posted that they did this, that I've read, never mentioned taking any wood out in their posts.

OK who makes medium posts?

[Ryan Givhan]

Originally Posted by bigjimsguitars

Not as easy as it sounds...the tops are usually a bit thicker and you will need to deepen the control cavity to accomodate short shafts.

in the rs videos ive seen billy just takes the plate out and puts short shaft pots in.

[bigjimsguitars]

I remember that on a 1992 LP Classic that had all the crap in the cavity, that when I decided to Project X it I had to remove some wood in the cavity to accomodate a set of 1960 pots.

Looking at the video, it appears that Billy used long shaft pots and probably used spacers on the inside to get the right knob height.

[Ryan Givhan]

Originally Posted by bigjimsguitars

I remember that on a 1992 LP Classic that had all the crap in the cavity, that when I decided to Project X it I had to remove some wood in the cavity to accomodate a set of 1960 pots.

Looking at the video, it appears that Billy used long shaft pots and probably used spacers on the inside to get the right knob height.

you may be right about the spacers

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by bluesjuke

No kidding.
Those over the years that have posted that they did this, that I've read, never mentioned taking any wood out in their posts.

OK who makes medium posts?

My 2008 Traditional has the plate removed. Short shaft CTS pots don't fit. The threading doesn't even reach the surface of the top. I've tried.

I installed some short shaft pots in my buddies 2008 Studio. They only fit without any of the washers and the nuts only threaded on just enough to barely hold the pots... and it took a good deal of effort to get them all to stay including scraping a little and cleaning up the holes from the control cavity side. I would NOT recommend trying short shafts in recent Gibson USA LPs.

Long shafts are guaranteed to fit and much easier to work with.

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by bigjimsguitars

Looking at the video, it appears that Billy used long shaft pots and probably used spacers on the inside to get the right knob height.

Spacers would be a really handy thing. But I don't know how consistent the thickness of the wood is.

For instance, I've set one pot's inside nut to leave the correct shaft length exposed. Measured it and set the other three the same. Then when I installed the other three they were all different heights. I had to do a little trial and error to get them all right. It was actually pretty annoying. Maybe I just had a sloppy cavity route on this one? Never had that problem with Historics.

[bigtomrodney]

When I had my 2006 Standard I used additional nuts to set the height from the inside. Long shafts only, no hope of using short shafts unless it's vintage or a reissue.

[bigjimsguitars]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

Spacers would be a really handy thing. But I don't know how consistent the thickness of the wood is.

For instance, I've set one pot's inside nut to leave the correct shaft length exposed. Measured it and set the other three the same. Then when I installed the other three they were all different heights. I had to do a little trial and error to get them all right. It was actually pretty annoying. Maybe I just had a sloppy cavity route on this one? Never had that problem with Historics.

Historics and Standard LP's are two completely different animals! Standards don't route the control cavity with the same jig and have to leave enough top to mount the aluminum plate.

[lpcust]

Originally Posted by DoubleBoogie

Thought I would weigh in on this finally. The "Mapleflame" mod will wake up a guitar and lots of clarity and an open kind of "airyness" to the tone with a touch more brightness. It also added sustain for me on the two guitars I did it on. Steel studs for your tailpiece will do some similar things. Both of these together will make the biggest differnce on the tone of your guitar in my opinion. Pups, pots, caps, and 50's wiring are all great easy things to do also.

I've experimented with pickups and found excellent improvement, and I've also tried a variety of pots and caps with great results. I like 50's wiring as well.
I have yet to do the Mapleflame mod, and I intend to go with steel tailpiece studs also. It's very satisfying to enjoy some changes for a period of time knowing that there's more to be had. The R9 is a wonderful guitar out of the box, but for those of us who like making a good thing better, this forum is a wonderful resource. Thanks to all for the the contributions.

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by bigjimsguitars

Historics and Standard LP's are two completely different animals! Standards don't route the control cavity with the same jig and have to leave enough top to mount the aluminum plate.

Oh ya, definitely. I've learned of the "double route" in the cavity through the various build threads and such. If USA models even have the double route I'm sure it's not done as precisely.

[lpcust]

Originally Posted by bigjimsguitars

There are two things you can do that are free to get better tone/sustain:

1. With the strings off, put the stoptail on and adjust one of the studs up or down to lock the stoptail;
a. This acts in the same principle as a TonePros locking stoptail;
b. I personally like to raise the treble side as it seems to make bending easier.

2. Remove the ABR-1 Bridge and gently bend each post outward just a hint;
a. This also works in the same manner as a TonePro's Locking ABR-1.

Thanks Big Jim! Excellent suggestions using simple physics! I've never thought of nor heard of these ideas before. Great contributions.