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Old 01-06-10, 02:56 PM   #1
R9.
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2009 specs

I know most of this is old news but some of these bullets seem new to me.
Joe Yoshida posted this at the Gibson Forums today and if Joe posts it, it must all be true.
Hopefully, there's some new info here for everyone. He found it on MF.
http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26862

2009 R9 Changed Features:

# Nylon 6/6 nut
# Improved ABR-1 bridge (no-wire, tighter tolerances)
# Historically correct nickel-plated brass bridge saddles
# Correct alloy saddle adjustment screws
# Bridge height-adjusting thumbwheels are now thinner
# Neck profile changed - now has less "shoulders"
# Audio taper CTS pots
# '50s wiring
# Pickup routes adjusted so that pickups will be parallel to the strings
# Top carve changed to be closer to several original '59s that were scanned
# Body perimeter change - slightly tighter in waist, cutaway area refined to be more like originals
# The maple cap is very slightly thinner, the mahogany body is very slightly thicker
# The fingerboard is slightly thinner
# The step from neck heel to back of body is taller and more correct
# The taper of the "maple window" under the binding in cutaway is more accurate
# The maple spline (filler strip) in the tenon is more accurate
# The edge radius on the backside of the body is tighter (less rounded)
# The "mustache curve" of the headstock top has been flattened slightly
# The control cavity plate has been relocated, has the correct side taper, and now uses the correct ABS plastic
# The pickguard shape has changed slightly
# The pickguard bracket and screw have been changed
# The truss rod cover has been reshaped to be more accurate
# The serial number location is slightly lower and more correct
# Dial pointers are less sharp
# The strap button screws are longer
# The jack hole is now the correct 1" diameter
# The toggle switch nut has more correct knurled pattern
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Old 01-06-10, 03:21 PM   #2
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Re: 2009 specs

Sounds interesting! I noticed only some of these changes are listed as "more accurate". Are the ones not listed that way un-accurate? That is changed but not to be more like a real burst just changed for some other reason?
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Old 01-06-10, 05:25 PM   #3
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Re: 2009 specs

I read this info on the Gibby forums a week or so ago... seems Gibson denied that they had this list of changes (or at least could not confirm if they are accurate).. MF listed them but no one is positive where they got them...?
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Old 01-06-10, 05:28 PM   #4
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Re: 2009 specs

You mean Joe Yoshida that went nuts in the thread about the Historic upgrades through the ages?
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I'm sure only Axel knows if they have wax potting. He knows stuff that Gibson don't even know about there own guitars. Like an angel from Les Paul Heaven!
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Old 01-06-10, 06:35 PM   #5
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Re: 2009 specs

Just for yucks, I traced the body shapes of my vintage 54' LP, 03' R9 and an 09' R9 I have. The 03's perimiter was actually closer to my old guitar than the 09. The 03' is exactly the same shape as the 54' except there is a little more material on the inside edge of the horn. The 09' has quite a bit more horn than the 03' and a slightly less tight waste. Are vintage 59' LP's different than late 54's? I guess that's the next question.

I think the big changes for 09' are the top quality bridge they put on, the slightly different proportions of maple/rosewood to mahogany, and the quality audio taper pots with 50's wiring. A lot of the 09's I have tried seemed to have a slightly "woodier" sound than I remember in earlier years.
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Old 01-06-10, 07:48 PM   #6
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Re: 2009 specs

.

Last edited by wizardmc : 02-06-10 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 01-06-10, 08:10 PM   #7
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Re: 2009 specs

Some are right but some are not.

Still i want an 09'
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Old 01-06-10, 08:48 PM   #8
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Re: 2009 specs

They're still not a perfect replica, but they're closer than ever. I agree with GeetarGoul, the most significant changes are the bridge and the pots. The saddles in the bridge are tight and there's not a hint of buzz, which is a problem I've had with several ABR bridges in the past. The pot taper is perfect. I find the new pots to be on the stiff side and not very easy to roll with my pinky, but at least they function as they should. One cosmetic change that I really would have like to have seen would be improved inlays, but maybe next year...

So...Who's willing to commit a homosin and add this list to the sticky?
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Old 01-06-10, 09:01 PM   #9
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Re: 2009 specs

Yep, the inlays and the tailpiece angle just scream historic.
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Old 01-06-10, 09:40 PM   #10
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Re: 2009 specs

.

Last edited by wizardmc : 02-10-10 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 01-07-10, 01:56 AM   #11
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardmc View Post
The tailpiece angle seemed to vary a bit with the real Bursts, and I have historics that are very close to my real Burst. Like the top carve, I don't think there's one right way to do it, within a +/- 20% tolerance.
Good that you mentioned those. It is different from the 'one template fits all' mentality.
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Old 01-07-10, 04:06 AM   #12
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeetarGoul View Post
I think the big changes for 09' are the top quality bridge they put on, the slightly different proportions of maple/rosewood to mahogany, and the quality audio taper pots with 50's wiring.
I agree with those; I think the nylon nut is also a significant change that makes a difference in snap and tone.

But the 2009 changes are "history", as they say --- what's coming now that we're in 2010?
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Old 01-07-10, 04:28 AM   #13
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
You mean Joe Yoshida that went nuts in the thread about the Historic upgrades through the ages?
Yeah, didn't he take credit for the list that was created by a/some member(s) here? Did that ever get sorted out?
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Old 01-07-10, 06:44 AM   #14
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Re: 2009 specs

This should be a sticky. Imagine how many repeat posts this one will eliminate.
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Old 01-07-10, 07:54 AM   #15
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Re: 2009 specs

The new wireless bridge and new neck shape (both big improvements IMO) made the jump to my '09 Historic '59 ES-335. Alas, the audio taper pots did not. On a Les Paul, pot changes are no big deal, but on a 335, that's another story.

Maybe by 2013 (50th anniversary of the '63 reissue 335) Gibson will have this sorted out (I'm not holding my breath). I'm still waiting for them to get the correct double ring Klusons on the Historic SGs.
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Old 01-07-10, 10:07 AM   #16
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardmc View Post
The tailpiece angle seemed to vary a bit with the real Bursts, and I have historics that are very close to my real Burst. Like the top carve, I don't think there's one right way to do it, within a +/- 20% tolerance.
thank you...

Say it again
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Old 01-07-10, 10:08 AM   #17
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSlub View Post
I agree with those; I think the nylon nut is also a significant change that makes a difference in snap and tone.

But the 2009 changes are "history", as they say --- what's coming now that we're in 2010?
i tell ya ...

More Money!!!
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Old 01-07-10, 12:25 PM   #18
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Re: 2009 specs

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Originally Posted by thin sissy View Post
Yeah, didn't he take credit for the list that was created by a/some member(s) here? Did that ever get sorted out?
No idea. Is it even possible to copyright sheer facts of products produced by someone else than yourself?
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I'm sure only Axel knows if they have wax potting. He knows stuff that Gibson don't even know about there own guitars. Like an angel from Les Paul Heaven!
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Old 01-07-10, 12:31 PM   #19
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Re: 2009 specs

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No idea. Is it even possible to copyright sheer facts of products produced by someone else than yourself?
Jag säger inget, så har jag inget sagt.

or

I'm not going to say anything, that way I haven't said anything.

That didn't sound very good translated...
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Old 01-07-10, 01:05 PM   #20
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Re: 2009 specs

Are these changes going to be standard now on all Reissues after 2010? Seems like the 2009's don't need as much aftermarket upgrading and those necks are important too. I think that is the most significant change. You can change the nut, pots, bridge and still return an older hysteric to stock but once you refin the neck its not longer stock.

I hope they don't only make SG's in 2011
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Old 01-07-10, 05:33 PM   #21
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitar Whiskey View Post
Yep, the inlays and the tailpiece angle just scream historic.
fortunately,the inlays and tailpiece angle on my '09 are correct...
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Old 01-07-10, 06:44 PM   #22
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Re: 2009 specs

....R9 brother?....as per MF descriptions?, did you or anybody that owns a 2K9 R9 gone through or taken their time to check out the listed above if at all tried and true?


Cheers!
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Old 01-08-10, 11:46 AM   #23
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Re: 2009 specs

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Originally Posted by Trans-Am View Post
....R9 brother?....as per MF descriptions?, did you or anybody that owns a 2K9 R9 gone through or taken their time to check out the listed above if at all tried and true?


Cheers!
Some of that info is still unconfirmed. The list also excludes how the specs went backwards to being more inaccurate as discussed in earlier threads. But then, I wouldn't expect a dealer like Musicians Friend to get it right. They're just in the business of selling guitars.
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Old 01-08-10, 02:49 PM   #24
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Re: 2009 specs

I think this list was posted by a Gibson employee here last spring...

2009 R9 Changed Features:
Nylon 6/6 nut
Improved ABR-1 bridge (no-wire, tighter tolerances)
Historically correct nickel-plated brass bridge saddles
Correct alloy saddle adjustment screws
Bridge height adjusting thumbwheels now steel, rather than brass and are thinner
Neck profile changed - now has less "shoulders"
Audio taper CTS pots
'50s wiring
Pickup routes adjusted so that pickups will be parallel to the strings
Top carve changed to be closer to several original '59s that were scanned
Body perimeter change - slightly tighter in waist, cutaway area refined to be more like originals
The maple cap is very slightly thinner, the mahogany body is very slightly thicker
The fingerboard is slightly thinner
The step from neck heel to back of body is taller and more correct
The taper of the "maple window" under the binding in cutaway is more accurate
The maple spline (filler strip) in the tenon is more accurate
The edge radius on the backside of the body is tighter (less rounded)
The "mustache curve" of the headstock top has been flattened slightly
The control cavity plate has been relocated, has the correct side taper, and now uses the correct ABS plastic
The pickguard shape has changed slightly
The pickguard bracket and screw have been changed
The truss rod cover has been reshaped to be more accurate
The serial number location is slightly lower and more correct
Dial pointers are less sharp
The strap button screws are longer
The jack hole is now the correct 1" diameter
The toggle switch nut has more correct knurled pattern
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Old 01-08-10, 06:07 PM   #25
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by 55Custom View Post
Some of that info is still unconfirmed. The list also excludes how the specs went backwards to being more inaccurate as discussed in earlier threads. But then, I wouldn't expect a dealer like Musicians Friend to get it right. They're just in the business of selling guitars.
I reckon so!!

Cheers!
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Old 01-08-10, 06:17 PM   #26
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Re: 2009 specs

The one detail that is *less* historically accurate on the '09s is the steel, coarse knurl ABR-1 bridge thumbwheels. The previous brass ones with the finer knurl are closer to the originals IMO
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Old 01-08-10, 06:23 PM   #27
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kane View Post

2009 Changed Features:
Nylon 6/6 nut-yup
Improved ABR-1 bridge (no-wire, tighter tolerances)- yup
Historically correct nickel-plated brass bridge saddles- yup
Correct alloy saddle adjustment screws- maybe
Bridge height adjusting thumbwheels now steel, rather than brass and are thinner-yup,but still not accurate
Neck profile changed - now has less "shoulders"-some yes,some no
Audio taper CTS pots-yes
'50s wiring-yes
Pickup routes adjusted so that pickups will be parallel to the strings-not checked this one out
Top carve changed to be closer to several original '59s that were scanned-carve is a little different
Body perimeter change - slightly tighter in waist, cutaway area refined to be more like originals-ok
The maple cap is very slightly thinner, the mahogany body is very slightly thicker-not necessarily,they vary anyways
The fingerboard is slightly thinner-seems like it
The step from neck heel to back of body is taller and more correct-yup
The taper of the "maple window" under the binding in cutaway is more accurate-maybe
The maple spline (filler strip) in the tenon is more accurate-yes on R9's
The edge radius on the backside of the body is tighter (less rounded)-yup
The "mustache curve" of the headstock top has been flattened slightly-no evidence of this
The control cavity plate has been relocated, has the correct side taper, and now uses the correct ABS plastic-yup
The pickguard shape has changed slightly-yes and no from what I've seen
The pickguard bracket and screw have been changed-screw only
The truss rod cover has been reshaped to be more accurate-yup
The serial number location is slightly lower and more correct-maybe
Dial pointers are less sharp-depends on the batch made
The strap button screws are longer-not checked this one
The jack hole is now the correct 1" diameter-yup
The toggle switch nut has more correct knurled pattern-yup
Above is what I noticed...
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Old 01-08-10, 06:31 PM   #28
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Re: 2009 specs

What are the thumb wheels "supposed" to be?
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Old 01-08-10, 06:36 PM   #29
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Re: 2009 specs

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What are the thumb wheels "supposed" to be?
thinner than the '09 thumbwheels and have a finer knurl...
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Old 01-08-10, 06:43 PM   #30
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Re: 2009 specs

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thinner than the '09 thumbwheels and have a finer knurl...
What material were they made out of in the late 50's?
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Old 01-08-10, 06:58 PM   #31
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Re: 2009 specs

Truss rod condom seems to negate every positive.
Heck, take care of that and overall tone of all guitars would improve drastically, eh?
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Old 01-08-10, 08:49 PM   #32
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Re: 2009 specs

Oh guys and gals - lets not forget: the new shitty pickups, the new crappy caps, the wrong tail-piece studs and bushings, and other REALLY BASIC STUFF...the list goes on and on...

The cost and work that has to be put into turning a decent piece of wood (if you can get it) from Gibson, into a good Les Paul, is a shame on Gibson and their little-bitty-trickle marketing pretense of accuracy .. How I wish someone else other than Gibson made historically accurate LPs.

Sorry, I forgot the "Less sharp" dial pointers - because I know how much more important they are than a good set of pick ups. Hell, burstbuckers (small "b" intentional) are a crime against the environment - because 99% of them end up in a land fill having been used once then discarded. It's a total joke, and the laughter is getting louder by the day..

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Old 01-08-10, 10:25 PM   #33
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Re: 2009 specs

..

Last edited by wizardmc : 02-06-10 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 01-08-10, 10:54 PM   #34
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58Lover View Post
Truss rod condom seems to negate every positive.
Heck, take care of that and overall tone of all guitars would improve drastically, eh?
Doen't one's hand dampen the neck? I fail to see how a truss rod condem makes that big of a difference. Have the haters changed just this one item many times over to incredible improvement? The Historic Makeovers usually have a laundry list of changes made to them.
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Old 01-08-10, 11:03 PM   #35
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Re: 2009 specs

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Originally Posted by jpointus View Post
burstbuckers (small "b" intentional) are a crime against the environment - because 99% of them end up in a land fill having been used once then discarded.
true
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Old 01-08-10, 11:05 PM   #36
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Re: 2009 specs

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Even more so than the improved tailpiece location and the not-bad inlays.
The tailpiece location is still wrong, and it can't be corrected on 2009's. This is because of the erroneous locations of the knobs. The tailpiece location can be corrected on 1999 through 2008's though. R0's from those years are already correct to later 1960 LP specs.
Also, don't the 2009's have beveled edges in the control cavity. I saw a pic of one here a while back. It wasn't '50's spec at all in that portion. The body suffered some drawbacks, but the neck has the better improvements.
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Old 01-08-10, 11:20 PM   #37
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Re: 2009 specs

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Originally Posted by 55Custom View Post
The tailpiece location is still wrong, and it can't be corrected on 2009's. This is because of the erroneous locations of the knobs. The tailpiece location can be corrected on 1999 through 2008's though. R0's from those years are already correct to later 1960 LP specs.
Also, don't the 2009's have beveled edges in the control cavity. I saw a pic of one here a while back. It wasn't '50's spec at all in that portion. The body suffered some drawbacks, but the neck has the better improvements.
55, do you have a real 1959 Les Paul Standard at home that you compare everything to? You seem like quite the authority, but I know you aren't.
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Old 01-08-10, 11:35 PM   #38
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Re: 2009 specs

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Originally Posted by GeetarGoul View Post
You seem like quite the authority, but I know you aren't.
It's not about me, it's about the math. The '09's are inaccurate for all the reasons laid out long ago. You obviously haven't done your research.
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Old 01-09-10, 08:30 AM   #39
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Re: 2009 specs

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Originally Posted by 55Custom View Post
You obviously haven't done your research.
BlueJazz/55Custom- Do you have a real 59' LP Std to compare to or are you just taking everyone else's word? If so, that's bad research and science.
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Old 01-09-10, 09:39 AM   #40
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Re: 2009 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpointus View Post
Oh guys and gals - lets not forget: the new shitty pickups, the new crappy caps, the wrong tail-piece studs and bushings, and other REALLY BASIC STUFF...the list goes on and on...
I disagree, I seem to remember the Burstbuckers scoring very highly on a double-blind test here on the forum. They're a fine pickup and do the job well. Even now most people will tell you that no two PAFs are the same, and the Burstbuckers certainly do the job as well as many of the boutique winders out there.

As for the caps, they might not be paper-in-oil but they're the same type as the late Bumblebees and the Black Beauties that followed. Even of the people who are aware of Sprague Bumblebees there are still those that aren't aware that they came as both paper-in-oil and then later as metal-film capacitors. When you pull out your original '60 burst and realise that it doesn't have paper-in-oil capacitors is it going to sound any worse?

If you can accept that the mahogany is more dense and that they're not using brazilian rosewood anymore then looking at these two components is just splitting hairs.
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