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Old 01-28-09, 09:21 AM   #1
Troels
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GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

I've just received this mail from Gibson - it seems like they have been giving wrong informations - of some kind
in the first post:

William Baugh til mig
Vis detaljer 17.32 (44 minutter siden) Svar


Hello,
I wanted to correct something with you - I’m afraid I was wrong about the ‘59 and ‘63 historics being made in Memphis. They are indeed made in Nashville. Memphis is making the new limited run '59 335 Reissues in VOS and Gloss: (250 of each) but not the historics. I got my wires crossed somehow. Sorry about that Troels.
Regards,

William Baugh
Customer Service Representative
Gibson Guitar Corp
Nashville, TN
1-800-4GIBSON
service@gibson.com

Last edited by Troels : 01-28-09 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 01-28-09, 10:11 AM   #2
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Is this the same Gibson Customer Service you were blowing off last month?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troels View Post
"So there you have it...". Hmmm...unfortunately not!

I seems like you haven't read all the posts before answering - right? But I think you should go back and do so because your activities with Gibson Customer Service is plain waste of my time.

Get it: Both Memphis and Nasville are Custom Shops and both make Custom Shop guitars. Guitars from both places come with Custom case, Certificate of Authenticity and Gold Custom Shop Warranty.

Read Bhodies post #93 if it's too much to read them all.

And don't expect Gibson Customer Service to know much about Gibson and Gibson guitars.

I know I promissed not to post again here in this thread. But it seems like anybody just open the last post and deliver their contribution - no matter the quality - and it needed a comment.
The same you cited the other day with the wrong information about Memphis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troels View Post
To put an end to the thread about the missing Nashville Historic ES-335 on the very new www.gibson.com I'll post this e-mail coming from Gibson:

William Baugh til mig
Vis detaljer 01.40 (7 timer siden) Svar (...e-mail details)


Hello,
Thanks for writing. Here is a link to the currently produced models: http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Elec...rs/Search.aspx

The 59 and 63 are produced at the custom shop in Memphis.

The site is still a work in progress and we apologize. Thanks for your patience.


Thanks again,

William Baugh
Customer Service Representative
Gibson Guitar Corp
Nashville, TN
1-800-4GIBSON


My comment: This means - to me at least - that there is no more Historics coming out of Nashville. Gibsons famous ES-335 is now only made one place - in Memphis.

PS I've asked the same question on Gibson Custom discussion page ( http://forums.gibson.com/Default.asp...146652&#146652 ). Still no official answer, but there's a post from a person who was at NAMM earlier this month and saw the new ES custom shop line - and as he reports - they had all "Prototype" and Memphis, TN, on the orange label - otherwise Historic specs.
Will you ever stop simply reacting to what you want to believe?

angus
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Old 01-28-09, 10:21 AM   #3
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

I was misinformed. And that's what they apologies for in the mail - as far as I can see... It's rather surprising that Gibson doesn't know these things about themself. I have done nothing but quoted what Gibson told me. They've said these things to other Forum Members as well. What do you wan't me to do... call Henry? (I would like to - but he doen't answer the phone...). I believe you know very well that they first wrote that everything was in Memphis now. Now they say it's not. I've won't stay a chance to check this out - and I still wonder why some of you over there don't reserach these things instead punching me...
And by the way - there is still no Nashville and still no Historics on the website.
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Old 01-28-09, 11:36 AM   #4
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

The thing is this: You jumped the gun and started yelling "No Nashville 335s" on the basis of an obviously unfinished website.

YOU started the big "whoop-de-do" over this; it was not Gibson. Had you simply waited until the freaking website was finished, there'd have been no "controversy" and no need for us "over here" to find these things out.

All of us "over here" simply figured that we'd wait until the website was finished.

So now you've got three threads running over a question that needed NONE.

Congratulations.
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Old 01-28-09, 11:48 AM   #5
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Hi Troels,

I think maybe the biggest issue these guy have here on the LPF with some of your posts is that for the most part you state information as unequivocal fact. While I understand that you have been only reporting what the Gibson emails have stated, I think you leave (or left) no consideration for error. I think this is an honest mistake...alot of times those who try to be the first to bring news to the world (in whatever format or forum) tend to not have all the information gathered. You know the saying about Hindsight is 20/20? I think that falls into this catagory as well. Meaning, what something might seem at first may not be reality in the end. Such was the case here. Some of us here have worked with Gibson for many many years. The larger that corporation gets, the more disconnect is seems to be. Those with expierence in this manor tend to take single points of contact (like on person at Gibson) with a grain of salt. Now if you contacted 5 or 10 different departments and they all reported the same information, we would have a better chance at getting accurate info. I know from working at a big corporation, that alot of times I get only the information I need to know at the time the information is being supplied. Often times weeks or months later I find out that I was only given half the information...possibly due to the fact that they did not realize I needed more than what was given.


I wish you only the best and hope that your reading of my message is understood from a friendly standpoint as a forum friend of yours from BluesTalk, GIbsonTalk, the LPF etc. I think your a wealth of information and I can appreciate that. I think you also get excited about something new you have learned and want to share it with everone. Sometimes it may be best to absorb what you have learned and wait to share it until just the right time.

Goodluck,
JD
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Old 01-28-09, 12:22 PM   #6
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Think about your own workplace and how many employees don't know what the fuck they are doing. Well, Gibson is no different. Incompetence thrives everywhere because we don't live in a meritocracy where talent, perseverance and knowledge are routinely rewarded. In this country, loyalty and longevity are rewarded regardless of the level of talent or knowledge. It comes down to don't believe everything you read or hear or see on TV. Like most large corporations, Gibson has its share of nitwits and incompetents. It also probably has its share of relatively bright people who are sadly misinformed.
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Old 01-28-09, 12:26 PM   #7
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by reswot View Post
The thing is this: You jumped the gun and started yelling "No Nashville 335s" on the basis of an obviously unfinished website.

YOU started the big "whoop-de-do" over this; it was not Gibson. Had you simply waited until the freaking website was finished, there'd have been no "controversy" and no need for us "over here" to find these things out.

All of us "over here" simply figured that we'd wait until the website was finished.

So now you've got three threads running over a question that needed NONE.

Congratulations.
It all began with that new Gibson website. But it wasn't the website itself that lead to my posts. But based on the new web I did ask Gibson why the Histrics were missing and I posted Gibsons answer here! I - me - thought it was interesting news and posted it here in to this forum because I thought it would have a certain kind of interest for everybody. Unfortunately I was misinformed from Gibson - that's what it looks like in their new mail posted here, isn't it? 44 minutes after I got it I mailed it in this forum.

And to you Joe - thanks for your words. I am a journalist and maybe sometimes a little fast on the trigger. But in this case I'm not writing to a newspaper and the public - but to people I "know". I don't have any opportunity to double check informations from Gibson - and I belive that the informations they gave me were given to me because they simply believed themselves that it was the right context. It wasn't. Sorry for that.

The interesting thing is, that four og five persons around here take this as personal offending - which it of course isn't at all. I don't think I've ever met so unkind people at one place ever before than these people four or five people. They may have their reasons - but still to me it's a completely non-understandable behaviour - and only because of a simple thing as where a guitar is made - town A or town B...

If people here want me to I can stop posting - it's just a word or two (from some of the respectfull people, of course).

Troels

PS I can ad that Gibson has just told me, that the Historics will enter the new website as well...
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Old 01-28-09, 12:28 PM   #8
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

...and he attackes everyone who posts factual information that disagrees with his incorrect personal beliefs and conclusions
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Old 01-28-09, 12:36 PM   #9
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
...and he attackes everyone who posts factual information that disagrees with his incorrect personal beliefs and conclusions
Everyone? Of course not. I guess you know that very well. But sometimes waves becomes a little high - and argueing take two persons, I believe, unless of course you are speaking with yourself.
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Old 01-28-09, 01:41 PM   #10
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troels View Post
It all began with that new Gibson website. But it wasn't the website itself that lead to my posts....
Now, just wait a minute, here, Mr. Journalist. Let's revisit your first post on this very subject

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troels View Post
ES-335 Historics are gone...at least untill someone finds it and tells me it's not.

Maybe I'm blind... or maybe I don't understand how Gibsons new homepage works... but if I'm not blind and if I do know how to navigate on their web - then there is no longer a guitar coming out of Nashville called an ES-335 Historic - being it a dot neck or a '63.

Go to www.gibson.com and check it. I'm afraid I'm not wrong!!

I've been thru all the pages and clicked all possible buttons each one on its own and in combinations of three - and it's not there. Even typing "historic" in the search machine won't help and neither will chosing ES, USA Custom and Vintage Specs. in combination....

It's NOT THERE!

You see? It DID start with the website. You viewed an unfinished website and HAD to be the first to post about it. THEN you went looking for confirmation. There have been three threads about this: 1) "Breaking News..." 2) "ES-335 Now in Memphis, Exclusively", and 3) this one.

In these threads, you've bashed everyone who didn't agree with you.

You said that the '59 and '63 would be made in Memphis. Then you stated that "...Memphis in the future will provide the market with an ES-335 with all the details taken from the Historic (narrow binding, holly wood, hand rubbed finish and whatever) - but without the name Historic." You've unequivocally stated that Nashville ES production was shut down, that the Gibson website was complete, that the Gibson Custom was no more....

All this because of an OBVIOUSLY incomplete website and ONE GUY at Gibson Customer Service who mistyped "Memphis," rather than "Nashville" in his email to you...

How many other stories have you had to retract recently?

So much for "context," huh?
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Old 01-28-09, 02:17 PM   #11
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

You're thinking much too much about this.

Enjoy your guitar and don't worry too much about these little things.

Cheers,

GT

Last edited by Gold Tone : 01-28-09 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 01-28-09, 03:02 PM   #12
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...



CT.
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Old 01-28-09, 03:14 PM   #13
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by red59dot View Post
Think about your own workplace and how many employees don't know what the fuck they are doing. Well, Gibson is no different. Incompetence thrives everywhere because we don't live in a meritocracy where talent, perseverance and knowledge are routinely rewarded. In this country, loyalty and longevity are rewarded regardless of the level of talent or knowledge. It comes down to don't believe everything you read or hear or see on TV. Like most large corporations, Gibson has its share of nitwits and incompetents. It also probably has its share of relatively bright people who are sadly misinformed.
Ain't that the truth...no matter where you come from.
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Old 01-28-09, 03:50 PM   #14
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Does anyone find the irony in that these are the ramblings of a (self-proclaimed) journalist, named Trolls no less??? That in itself is hysterical
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Old 01-28-09, 03:57 PM   #15
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Troels, good on ya for being persistent...but give it a rest, buddy.
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Old 01-28-09, 04:18 PM   #16
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Heck, I'm just glad the Historics are still around. It gives me something to dream about, even though I've never even seen one. Out in my neck of the woods, they're harder to find than rocking horse poop.
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Old 01-28-09, 04:22 PM   #17
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Troels,
I don't think anyone wants you to stop posting. You have added significantly to many discussions. Take Joe D's advice, it's really good. Phrase things carefully, be clear in what you say. Facts are facts and your opinions are opinions. Make sure the difference is apparent. It's very similar to our little spat about laminations, I'm sure you recall. And don't beat dead horses.

Peace.
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Old 01-28-09, 04:34 PM   #18
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Well, after all that, you'll all be happy to know that I have just bought a 59 Historic 335....made in Nashville.
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Old 01-28-09, 05:07 PM   #19
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Well, after all that, you'll all be happy to know that I have just bought a 59 Historic 335....made in Nashville.
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Old 01-28-09, 05:35 PM   #20
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Well, after all that, you'll all be happy to know that I have just bought a 59 Historic 335....made in Nashville.
Very nice choice!
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Old 01-28-09, 06:44 PM   #21
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by red59dot View Post
Think about your own workplace and how many employees don't know what the fuck they are doing. Well, Gibson is no different. Incompetence thrives everywhere because we don't live in a meritocracy where talent, perseverance and knowledge are routinely rewarded. In this country, loyalty and longevity are rewarded regardless of the level of talent or knowledge. It comes down to don't believe everything you read or hear or see on TV. Like most large corporations, Gibson has its share of nitwits and incompetents. It also probably has its share of relatively bright people who are sadly misinformed.
Good points....However, I would like to add that in many corporations, people rise to the top only because of who they know and how good they look in a suit. When that happens, a lot of screwed up decisions get made and a ton of needed decisions get left flopping in the breeze. The more I read about Gibson, the more I think they are managed this way. They appear for all the world to be a company comprised of truly great people that get the work done despite the organization and management and not because of it.
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Old 01-28-09, 07:31 PM   #22
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Originally Posted by oldflame View Post
Well, after all that, you'll all be happy to know that I have just bought a 59 Historic 335....made in Nashville.
Congratulations. I'd love to se pictures, get a tone report, and know where and how you found it. I've seen one available at Wildwood but that's about it.

Personally, I'm very relieved to know the 335 Historics are still being made. Troels, don't stop posting bro. There's some good advice from some good people on this page ... and none of these guys are bad guys. It's easy to get frustrated.
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Old 01-29-09, 12:54 AM   #23
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

I hope the one you bought wasnt the one from Grinning Elk! I was told it was available and then 6 hours later it had a 48 hour hold on it! Kudos to you if you pulled the trigger quicker than me! Even better if we arent talking about the same guitar and we both will have one!!!!
Troels, keep up the info hunt!, even if it changes. I cant blame you for trying to make any sense of Gibsons specs. I'm very good friends with Gibson's old Artist Relations guy, and by his own admission, knowing what the fuck is actually going on with their guitars is a very difficult job. Think of info in all our jobs.... same at Gibson I guess...
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Old 01-29-09, 04:08 AM   #24
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Very nice choice!
Amen to that.

Here's mine (with the "wrong" pickguard):


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Old 01-29-09, 04:36 AM   #25
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Hey guys, are we suffering from winter weather depression and lack of sunlight? Seems like there are a lot of us who are cranky and intolerant these days.

I feel like I have to jump in here and defend Troels. He is a good guy, has made many positive contributions to the Forum, and he really studies the details of his guitars and spends a lot of time on his music. Many of us jump to conclusions (myself included) on incomplete or inaccurate information. And many of us have a love/hate relationship with Gibson - love the product and brand, hate the way they run the company and communicate with customers.

Finally, I think that we forget that we have members here from around the world with different cultures and different ways to express themselves, as well as the use of expressions of the English language. Troels is one of our international members, and I think he does a pretty darn good job.

So - lighten up! He made a mistake, and provided clarification. So what if he started a few threads on the subject? I've done the same thing many times, and have had to eat crow over some of my statements of opinion disguised as fact!
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Old 01-29-09, 05:29 AM   #26
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Stick around Troels - what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger!

Hang in there (here)!
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Old 01-29-09, 05:48 AM   #27
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

First rule taught in journalism school: don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
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Old 01-29-09, 08:33 AM   #28
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Thanks MikeSlub, Joe D, TomGuitar, Rev.WillieVK, Surfthrees, R9, Jurius and others I'll try to be more accurate in my research in the future. Everyone should know that I have no other motives to post here than I love guitars and love playing them. Much more than being a journalist btw
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Old 01-29-09, 10:12 AM   #29
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Stick around Troels - what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger!
That which does not kill me, can only maim me horribly!

Hey Troels, stick around! I appreciate your contributions.
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Old 01-29-09, 02:29 PM   #30
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Nothing personal against Troells either, until . . .

Please read carefully his boxed reply to me in post #2 and pretend it's directed at you.

I had simply posted that I'd contacted Gibson Customer Service and passed along facts from them Troells didn't agree with. What I got in return was a diatribe full of condescension and arrogance. To me, this goes well beyond any language barrier issues.

I'm a former journalist myself and I understand the impulse to be first out with the news. But there's still truth in the old saying "too much checking ruined many a good story."

angus
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Old 01-29-09, 06:11 PM   #31
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Yeah, Troels man, don't leave!! You may be on a different wave length than most everyone else regarding your 335 thoughts but why would you leave? I don't feel you are offending anyone and I sure hope you aren't offended by differing opinions or facts.

Hey friend, it's an internet forum and should be treated as such. Stick around! Wether or not someone agrees with your post, your posts DO contribute to and spark discussion...that is a VERY good thing.

Cheers,

GT

PS - but relax about the 335....don't worry so much about it....you have a FANTASTIC axe from Memphis and don't doubt it!!! Any pics for us?
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Old 01-29-09, 11:27 PM   #32
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Thanks Gold Tone... I won't leave. I like to be around here and yes I have pics but have never fiind out how to post them... The funny thing is, that when I bought my first ES-335 in 2001 (always played Fender's and older LP's and SG's bought secon hand) I didn't no anything about Historics, Custom Shops, Memphis, Nashville - nothing. I just bought it as I thought an ES-335 was an ES-335. I'd probably bought a Historic if I'd known just to be sure that I bought a good one. But I didn't know at all and saw only one en the store (I believe they had only the one I bought).

And to angus99 - I see what you mean. But I didn't made all the stories up myself. They were all based on informations from Gibson. In the run of two weeks I giot three different answers from them, actually, on the same question. If I'd known that they even didn't know these things thenmselves I wouldn't honestly have posted and puit a comment on them here in LPF. Great to hear that you have been a journalist too. I've actually worked at some of the biggest newspaper i DK for many years in the 80's - and with communication in 90's and now. But I've posted as a guitar player here rather than a journalist - but the journalistic instinct, I suppose, follows you everywhere In the future I'll let quoted words speak for themselves - and I can see that I should have done so with this too.

Last edited by Troels : 01-29-09 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 01-30-09, 06:07 AM   #33
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Thanks guys and I'll also let you know how it goes when it arrives. No idea how to post a shot up here. I'm a computer dumb ass when it comes to that kinda thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfthrees View Post
I hope the one you bought wasnt the one from Grinning Elk! ...
No, it came from a private seller, and the 58 Anni I was looking at was on ebay (still is I think). I saw the Grinning Elk 59. Nice!!! Too bad you missed it.
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Old 01-30-09, 06:37 AM   #34
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Originally Posted by DoubleBoogie View Post
I would like to add that in many corporations, people rise to the top only because of who they know and how good they look in a suit.
Man, I looked great in a suit! Still unemployed, though...
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Old 01-30-09, 09:21 PM   #35
Surfthrees
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Originally Posted by oldflame View Post
Thanks guys and I'll also let you know how it goes when it arrives. No idea how to post a shot up here. I'm a computer dumb ass when it comes to that kinda thing.



No, it came from a private seller, and the 58 Anni I was looking at was on ebay (still is I think). I saw the Grinning Elk 59. Nice!!! Too bad you missed it.
Yep, it looks like I missed out, unless he doesnt pay..(From Australia) Not that Aussies dont pay or anything... That particular one looked beautiful. Killer fretboard. I think when he found out I was going to buy it if he didnt stop kickin the tires, he snatched it up! Very wise. Hopefully Lee at Grinning Elk will find me another.I saw that one on Ebay. Looks nice, but I really am looking for the solid center block all the way thru which as I understand it, it doesnt...
Congrats on your beautiful 335!!!
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Old 01-31-09, 01:44 PM   #36
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

What's up with these '59 & '63 RI's?
Speced similar to an Historic?



Troels, you're a valuable asset around here.
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Old 01-31-09, 02:33 PM   #37
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

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Troels, you're a valuable asset around here.
Completely agree
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Old 02-01-09, 12:48 AM   #38
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

bluesjuke and tuberide, thank you guys
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Old 02-01-09, 02:44 AM   #39
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfthrees View Post
Yep, it looks like I missed out, unless he doesnt pay..(From Australia) Not that Aussies dont pay or anything... That particular one looked beautiful. Killer fretboard. I think when he found out I was going to buy it if he didnt stop kickin the tires, he snatched it up! Very wise. Hopefully Lee at Grinning Elk will find me another.I saw that one on Ebay. Looks nice, but I really am looking for the solid center block all the way thru which as I understand it, it doesnt...
Congrats on your beautiful 335!!!

Yes, the thing about the center block on the VOS 58' had me turning my nose up big time. Just don't see why they would want to do such a thing. Why go to all that trouble of putting a VOS finish on the guitar, call it a 50th anni model and then skimp on the woodwork. It probably sounds great but I'm oldschool, picky and just plain grumpy about stuff like that.

Last edited by oldflame : 02-01-09 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 02-01-09, 08:40 AM   #40
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Re: GOOD NEWS: ES-335 STILL FROM NASHVILLE...

While I don't know the history of this forum with Troels, speaking strictly on the subjects of Memphis/Nashville and 335s, I think his remarks and such on the subject have made for some damn entertaining reading. I don't like seeing people getting ganged up on, and a little of that happened here. But some of that's always to be expected in a community this size.

I think the biggest fault lies with Gibson, and the way they've answered his emails and the slackness in getting their website updated in a clear and factual way. For one of the "big two" guitar company's to do that is definitely unnecessary. How hard would it be to create their new website behind the scenes before making it available to us? And bad info from their support staff in response to questions...that's pretty crappy.

I have a feeling that if this issue was being reported to LPF by someone else that's proven their credibility with everyone a little more...(like the elder statesmen here) many of the people who were lashing out would've been slobbering all over themselves for the next installment.

Kudos to one of them (MikeSlub) for his comments in this thread, BTW.

Anyway, let's face it...a place like this would get old pretty quick if there was never any disagreement or back and forthing going on. Healthy amounts of that are what makes things interesting. So, I'm glad to now see folks telling Troels to stick around. I think he was genuinely trying to inform...while getting his own questions asked and answered.

Just my two bits....
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